OK......Members, you want some info. on what can happen when the SHTF....???

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08-11-2010, 07:32 PM
Sourdough

OK......Members, you want some info. on what can happen when the SHTF....???

There are about 10 or 20 articles about ongoing aircraft crashes this week in Alaska. The details of the Ted Stevens Crash are horrific, and in a different crash on Knik Glacier 5 people with NO warm clothes, and no gear are getting picked off the glacier after about 5 days of freezing, and they crashed a Black'Hawk at the crash site trying to help. There are a lot of lessons if someone wants to get news from KTUU TV and Anch. Daily News.

I was a commercial pilot and regularly flew over the site of the Otter crash out at Dillingham, Infact truth be told I've crashed a few times right there in the same valley.

Some of the information is harsh, but points to stark realities, and pure STUPIDITY.
08-11-2010, 08:01 PM
Rick

I've been trailing these, Sourdough, and you called it right from what I've been reading. There are just scads of air services that will fly cheechako just about anywhere and they take these yokels when they have no survival gear at all.

On the Steven's flight the plane and pilot belonged to the local telco so I was really surprised he pulled a boner like that. Telco pilots that I've been around are super safety oriented. I guess all it takes is one wrong decision.
08-11-2010, 08:18 PM
Sourdough

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I guess all it takes is one wrong decision.

He had over 29,000 pilot hours, that is a lot of hours. Yes it only takes one error. I am more interested in the first responders to the Stevens Crash, and what they encountered, KTUU TV has a good article. And the crash at the 8,500 foot level of the Knik with no food, No jackets, no sleeping bags, no water, they were lucky no one was hurt. And to crash a $35,000,000.00 piece of machinery, WOW.
08-11-2010, 08:22 PM
Sourdough

Ted Stevens was a friend to sjj and myself, and ALL Alaskans. He was a great man.
08-11-2010, 08:28 PM
crashdive123

Here are some of the KTUU stories.

http://www.ktuu.com/Global/story.asp?S=12965557
http://www.ktuu.com/Global/story.asp?S=12957007
http://www.ktuu.com/Global/story.asp?S=12952729
http://www.ktuu.com/Global/story.asp?S=12945908
http://www.ktuu.com/Global/story.asp?S=12959983
08-11-2010, 08:42 PM
Sourdough

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjj

Right you are Sourdough.

HELL, I am always right (even when I am wrong)..........:innocent::sneaky2::innocent:
08-11-2010, 08:46 PM
Sourdough

Quote:

Originally Posted by crashdive123

Here are some of the KTUU stories.

http://www.ktuu.com/Global/story.asp?S=12965557
http://www.ktuu.com/Global/story.asp?S=12957007
http://www.ktuu.com/Global/story.asp?S=12952729
http://www.ktuu.com/Global/story.asp?S=12945908
http://www.ktuu.com/Global/story.asp?S=12959983

Thanks Crash, they have concentrated on the money story of Ted Stevens, but the other crash which the "Anchorage Daily News" has worked is interesting, in that they knew where they were, but could not get to them because of bad weather, and blowing snow.
08-11-2010, 09:42 PM
Rick

I heard on the news this evening that three of the survivors had to be cut out of the plan (Steven's flight) with one survivor found outside the aircraft. It took something like 12 hours for rescuers to reach them. When you see what folks wear when they board an aircraft, even in places like AK, you have to wonder how they held on that long.
08-11-2010, 10:55 PM
BENESSE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I heard on the news this evening that three of the survivors had to be cut out of the plan (Steven's flight) with one survivor found outside the aircraft. It took something like 12 hours for rescuers to reach them. When you see what folks wear when they board an aircraft, even in places like AK, you have to wonder how they held on that long.

Well now, that's something to think about--what to wear and pack in your carry-on beyond the obvious. Most people probably wear seasonal clothing (I do) and it wouldn't occur to them to pack specifically to include the fly over location. Say you're flying to a warm weather place but over some snow covered mountains. Would you pack some stuff to tide you over if you crashed in those mountains and just happened to survive?

For what is worth, in the last year some of my permanent carry on stuff to anywhere includes a space blanket, compass/whistle/signal mirror, raw nuts (almonds & walnuts) 2 zone bars, water (get it after clearing security), basic first aid, surefire flash light, a blast match and a small short wave radio. It's always packed in the carry-on bag, I don't even think about it. Then of course I add to it accordingly.
08-11-2010, 11:08 PM
rebel

Is there any insight into the cause of the crash?
08-12-2010, 12:20 AM
Sourdough

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebel

Is there any insight into the cause of the crash?

Scud-running, no room to 180* turn, there are no Nav-aids that low, you are flying 100 feet off the deck, in the fog and clouds, doing 90 miles per hour, flying off and on blind down a twisting, turning valley, a narrow valley. sooner or later you have to make a blind 180* turn in the soup, with not enough room, and you drive it into the mountain. You are flying VFR in IFR conditions. (The short answer: God said, "It is time") (Super short answer: "Pilot error").

The Knik Glacier crash, Flying to low for conditions, with craft fully loaded, and lacked to time-space-and horsepower to out climb a downdraft. (Short answer: Flying too low over hazardous terrain).(Super-short answer: "Pilot-error")
08-12-2010, 05:55 AM
your_comforting_company

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sourdough

Scud-running, no room to 180* turn, there are no Nav-aids that low, you are flying 100 feet off the deck, in the fog and clouds, doing 90 miles per hour, flying off and on blind down a twisting, turning valley, a narrow valley. sooner or later you have to make a blind 180* turn in the soup, with not enough room, and you drive it into the mountain. You are flying VFR in IFR conditions. (The short answer: God said, "It is time") (Super short answer: "Pilot error").

The Knik Glacier crash, Flying to low for conditions, with craft fully loaded, and lacked to time-space-and horsepower to out climb a downdraft. (Short answer: Flying too low over hazardous terrain).(Super-short answer: "Pilot-error")

really short answer: stupidity.

Why wouldn't you just WAIT for the weather to clear, so that conditions would be safe? Granted I don't know anything about the area, but I don't even drive in bad weather. I'm certainly not going to fly. If I can't drive or walk there, I'm not going. Nope.. not gettin on a plane. If God wanted me to fly he'd have given me wings. I'm keeping my feet on the ground or at least very close to it!

Knowing no more than I know about the situation, I have to say that it is a good example of how we think the world is supposed to stop for us, because our plans don't involve rain, or fog, or flooding, or heatwaves... Good lesson to learn: You are at the mercy of Mother Nature and she often is a cold-hearted B*+¢h. They didn't want to miss their fishing trip... They paid for it.
08-12-2010, 07:05 AM
Rick

One report credited their heavy waders with helping them survive the night.

Benesse - It's even more basic than that. Most folks walk away from an airplane crash. You hear about the ones that die but there are many more that don't get reported because they aren't "news worthy". The greatest chance of death is trauma and fire. If you are wearing synthetic clothing then that fire, or just the heat produced by a fire, can melt the clothing to your skin. A crash that you survived intact could become a life threatening situation because of melted clothing. Avoid it by wearing natural fibers when possible. Even cotton is far better than synthetics. For real protection, go with natural leather but I know that's not always possible.

Similarly, footwear should be a real consideration. I've seen everything from flip flops to Crocs to cowboy boots on planes. Think about your foot flopping around on impact, climbing over dislodged items to vacate an aircraft, exiting an aircraft on shredded metal or just field weeds and sticks. Slip on shoes have probably been lost so a barefoot exit occurs. Not a good thing in my book. Good quality hiking books that tie will offer you a lot more protection and stay on your foot...hopefully. It's a pain at security to untie and retie those boots but they would sure be worth their weight in gold if you are in an accident.
08-12-2010, 07:09 AM
crashdive123

On the footwear thing - I agree. I believe that so many people are wearing flip flops, sandals, or other easily removed footwear to make it quicker to get through TSA screening.
08-12-2010, 08:09 AM
BENESSE

Excellent point on footwear--didn't think about that.
I wear sneakers or loafers, all geared toward easy navigation at security but now I see the wisdom in something sturdier.
I wised up to natural fiber when flying years ago and now that I discovered thin wool T's, nothing can be beat.

Bottom line, common sense should trump convenience every time. I don't always follow that but I try.
08-12-2010, 08:21 AM
esp

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebel

Is there any insight into the cause of the crash?

At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy, here is one theory on it.

from:[URL="http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1396.htm"]

"A new report prepared for Prime Minister Putin by Russia’s foreign military intelligence directorate (GRU) states that a former top United States Senator, Ted Stevens, was assassinated this week after he attempted to gather evidence “proving” that President Obama has unleashed America’s devastating “weather weapons” against the World."
08-12-2010, 08:48 AM
Sarge47

Hmmmm...

Quote:

Originally Posted by your_comforting_company

really short answer: stupidity.

Why wouldn't you just WAIT for the weather to clear, so that conditions would be safe? Granted I don't know anything about the area, but I don't even drive in bad weather. I'm certainly not going to fly. If I can't drive or walk there, I'm not going. Nope.. not gettin on a plane. If God wanted me to fly he'd have given me wings. I'm keeping my feet on the ground or at least very close to it!

Yeah, I agree with YCC, If God wanted me to fly he'd of gave me less brain cells. I've heard the old story that more people die in auto accidents than plane crashes, but that's only because there's a whole lot more people that drive than fly! Hey, if my car suffers engine failure I'm gonna coast to a stop; not fall 35,000 feet! And as long as I can see the road I won't run into a mountain. I don't mind heights, just don't care for that sudden stop at the end! :cool2:
08-12-2010, 08:51 AM
BENESSE

Conspiracy theories are the soul food of Putin & GRU.
If our own aren't exciting enough, we can always check with them to regale us with something new and different.
08-12-2010, 09:04 AM
Rick

Now that's funny I don't care who you are. I suppose all the earthquakes and tsunami's were the work of the Russians? I just hate it when that happens.
08-12-2010, 09:07 AM
Sarge47

Hmmmm...

Quote:

Originally Posted by esp

At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy, here is one theory on it.

from:[url="http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1396.htm"]

"A new report prepared for Prime Minister Putin by Russia’s foreign military intelligence directorate (GRU) states that a former top United States Senator, Ted Stevens, was assassinated this week after he attempted to gather evidence “proving” that President Obama has unleashed America’s devastating “weather weapons” against the World."

But of course; If the Rooskies say it then it must be true. And how clever the President was by luring Stevens out on a fishing trip! That durned Obama! He's been a baaaad boy! :cool2:
08-12-2010, 10:01 AM
Rick

Sourdough (or anyone else that's a pilot) - You obviously did a lot of bush flying. What kind of gear did you have on the plane with you and did you make your passengers carry any safety gear with them?

When you were flying they had those government airstrips all over the place with survival supplies and extra mechanical gear in them, didn't they?
08-12-2010, 01:13 PM
Sourdough

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Sourdough (or anyone else that's a pilot) - You obviously did a lot of bush flying. What kind of gear did you have on the plane with you and did you make your passengers carry any safety gear with them?

When you were flying they had those government airstrips all over the place with survival supplies and extra mechanical gear in them, didn't they?

I think your misinformed, there are nav/aid sites on mountain tops near the entrance to passes, that have repeaters to relay radio communications. It was/is common knowledge that there is survival supplies (Not much) in the remote Mt. top building. The supplies are there for the maintenance crews who might not get picked up for weather reasons. True there are supplies in the building, but they were not intended for pilots who crash.

Now if you crash on a 9,884 foot high solid rock Mt. your dead, if you crash in the valley & you are alive, you ain't going to climb up two miles of cliffs, only to find the building under 60 feet of snow (Note: they change the batteries in mid summer, and use a helicopter).

The law requires pilots to carry survival gear, but does not say what must be on board. I always carried Lots of survival gear. And most pilots know you often (Because of fire, plane sinks in water, etc.) only have what gear you are wearing, enter the pilots survival vest & small flight bag with charts, a few candy bars, and a "Pee'bottle" aka the pilots pal.
08-12-2010, 02:07 PM
Rick

These were landing strips with little huts. Inside the huts were pieces parts for aircraft and some people supplies. If you had mechanical problems you could land and if your part was inside then you could use it free of charge with the understanding you would replace it. Sorry if I came across wrong. I didn't mean a crash per se but mechanical problems that might force you to land. I'm going by memory but it seems those strips were scattered around AK. and have since been abandoned for whatever reason.
08-12-2010, 02:43 PM
Sourdough

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

These were landing strips with little huts. Inside the huts were pieces parts for aircraft and some people supplies. If you had mechanical problems you could land and if your part was inside then you could use it free of charge with the understanding you would replace it. Sorry if I came across wrong. I didn't mean a crash per se but mechanical problems that might force you to land. I'm going by memory but it seems those strips were scattered around AK. and have since been abandoned for whatever reason.

I have never heard of that. My guess is if that happened it was back in the 40's during WWII, the shuttle of thousands of American Aircraft to our friends in Russia.
08-12-2010, 04:04 PM
Winter

Sad that Uncle Ted has died.

Down here it's all floatplanes. On the S&R trips I've been on, the pilots always had bags with survival gear and rifles ranging from SKS's to Marlin guide guns.

To those of you who haven't flown floatplanes and the smaller planes; it has a reasonably high pucker factor. You will wear your seatbelt and even then it is no guarantee your head won't bounce off the beaver's fusilage a few times per trip.

Give me a rotary wing aircraft any time.
08-12-2010, 08:17 PM
LowKey

I fly quite a bit (as a passenger) and have always worn boots. You get the routine down pretty good after a couple trips. Just don't wear the steel toes. I did that once and got grabbed for the full security screen.

I took them off on the 7 hour flight to England, then after about an hour, had that image of Tom Hanks wearing shoes with no toes and put em back on. LOL. We were flying the over-the-top route in early May (over Iceland and through the ash). Cold that way. If you don't die in the crash, the water would kill you in minutes anyway so it really didn't matter.

Flying is a different kind of survival bag. Candy bars, phone, fresh socks, a good book, a toothbrush, and maybe a light jacket. If I ever fly in something small enough and slow enough not to kill me on impact I'll have to give it more thought.
08-12-2010, 09:55 PM
Justin Case

Boots AND a Parachute !
08-13-2010, 02:36 PM
Sourdough

Another Crash last night, and two more dead over near McGrath......that is about 14 dead in six aircraft crashes in the last two weeks.........:tongue_smilie:
08-13-2010, 02:47 PM
Rick

Weird. The dog lived.
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yellowcab

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yellowcab

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yellowcab

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yellowcab

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yellowcab

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05-17-2026, 11:29 AM
yellowcab

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05-17-2026, 11:31 AM
yellowcab

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