Artifacts, my small collection.

In anticipation of FVR generous prize, I sorta mounted my small collection, leaving room for the additions.

I have picked up two of the points, and was given the others over the years.

I gotta tell you the shadow box thing was a real PITA, and I still not happy with it. (I can see another woodworking project in the near future.

I did pick up the other pieces, an ax/adzes, grinding mortar, and what I beleave is the top of a bow drill.

For you knappers, I did notice the the points appear/feel to have a round side and a flat side, do y'all find this in your work?

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...3/DSCF0277.jpg

Middle point on third row I have been told was Hixton "suger quartz".

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...3/DSCF0276.jpg
Need practice in keeping shadows out of the pic's.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hunter63

Need practice in keeping shadows out of the pic's.

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Well, it is a shadow box right?

Looks very nice H63.

Very nice display. A statement of your respect and link to the past. It says much.

Nice display!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crashdive123

Well, it is a shadow box right?

Looks very nice H63.

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Thanks guys, seems cool to hold something that is hundreds and maybe thounds of years old, a usefull tool, and wonder about the story they could tell.

Crash, after seeing the large collection you posted here a while back, I have a whole new appreciation on the "Art of Shadow Boxes".
DW laughed at me,...she is the Craft-er....Then helped.

I have been told that my lower field was a good spot for picking up points, spent some time looking around after a rain and after the chisel plow, lots of flint/chert pieces, but no points ....Yet.

Those are A Okay in my book. You wonder how many hands looked them over, how many deer any one of them might have harvested. Lot's of stories there, no doubt.

I forgot to sign rep when I sent it but preserving history is a noble persuit deserving of recognition. I look at things and think on them, this display exercises my imagination. Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alaskan Survivalist

I forgot to sign rep when I sent it but preserving history is a noble persuit deserving of recognition. I look at things and think on them, this display exercises my imagination. Thanks.

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And thank you, I am always interested in our history, and nothing serves the purpose better than to try it, use it, hold it and think about all the work and uses something has.
This applies to objects, methods and even our beliefs. Kinda why I'm here.......

Great collection, Hunter! Imagine the stories those arrowheads could tell!

that's a very nice collection. I had a small collection at one time but somebody wanted it in a bad way and it disappeared.

I think it looks GREAT ! Thanks for sharing,, and I agree, If only those artifacts could talk ,,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hunter63

For you knappers, I did notice the the points appear/feel to have a round side and a flat side, do y'all find this in your work?

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I don't know I any of you that do fine knapping saw this, but I was wondering if you found this to be true?

probably due to a shard being spalled off a boulder and then pressure flaking is used to thin the rounded side. only dabbled in knapping

You know what gets under my skin?

When someone has a collection of thousand year old points and the sell them for 50 bucks. My bro-in-law can be pretty stupid sometimes. Something so sacred and special to be pawned off for a few bucks. I guess merit has no place in some peoples life and all they really care about is the almighty dollar.

That's a VERY nice collection H63, and FVR's points will look right at home.

To answer your question, I have found lots of points locally to have one (almost) flat side. I think the answer lies in the quality of the stone, and what it was spalled with. Sometimes you can drive a nice symmetrical flake from a spall, but most times I take what I can get, and make what the rock wants to be. If a blank is flat on one side, I like to eat away at the other to give it balance and concavity. It has something to do with the flight and balance of the arrow. In some cases, it's not such a big deal but most times I try to maintain the concavity and symmetry.
Many of the points we find that don't have the symmetry, I would gamble a guess, were made by a less experienced knapper. Everyone has to start learning at the beginning, and that is probably what you have found. Since we've had a few centuries to understand the physics, physical properties, materials, and tools, nowadays even a beginner can make nice symmetrical-ish points.

Maker of Fire might be able to better answer that question with facts rather than assumptions as I have, but that is my take on it. There are some basic things we look for in a "quality piece" and so did the original makers. If one doesn't match up to at least that level of "quality" I think it is safe to assume the maker was not an expert.

He must need money more than he needs arrowheads, ?

yeah... he could get a JOB instead...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by your_comforting_company

You know what gets under my skin?

When someone has a collection of thousand year old points and the sell them for 50 bucks. My bro-in-law can be pretty stupid sometimes. Something so sacred and special to be pawned off for a few bucks. I guess merit has no place in some peoples life and all they really care about is the almighty dollar.

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I agree, but on the other hand, I have approached the guy at our museum, for comments, identification, and possible donation, thinking more people could enjoy them.

Surprisingly, at least to me, was basically a butte chewing, about how I should not have picked them up, I have "destroyed the chain of evidence" so to speak, only trained a archaeologist is qualified to handle, catalog and display them. Larger pieces were picked up in a dried up river bed, on the only summer is recent memory, that it was possible.

I can appreciate the line of thinking, not wanting to destroy burial sites, and loss of reference by moving the pieces.

At the same time, I am wondering how much time he would have available to go looking, when your spending so much time being full of one's self.

Those of you that are keeeping the skill and art alive are to be commended.

I had a neighbor that was an avid "point" hunter, he had one bedroom devoted to showing his finds, every wall was completely covered with displays like yours, and, there were tables set up loaded with trays of them, and storage totes with arrowheads and spear points in them , He knew where to find this stuff , he said they used to go out there with quads and collect stuff every weekend, untill he got Cancer, anyway, he had tons of that stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hunter63

Need practice in keeping shadows out of the pic's.

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There are several ways you can accomplish this

1) The best way is to wait for an overcast day. Cloud coverage works like a giant softbox that makes the light softer with no or very light shadows.

2) shield the sun with someting translucent like a big white bedsheet or something.

3) Move the whole set-up to a shaded area

4) use fill flash

There are more ways, but they are more complicated.

Love your collection by the way.

What a doofus. He could easily have talked to you about origins and composition of the points. He could have taken a couple and looked them over while he talked about the importance of maintaining a site so it can be reviewed by professionals. He could have done all of that on a man to man basis. Not like some school master to a kid. I'll bet you hurry right back to him with the next find. I've run into guys like that from time to time and find they are more bravado than brains usually.

Hey rudy, you're avatar got hijacked by a goose.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rick

What a doofus. He could easily have talked to you about origins and composition of the points. He could have taken a couple and looked them over while he talked about the importance of maintaining a site so it can be reviewed by professionals. He could have done all of that on a man to man basis. Not like some school master to a kid. I'll bet you hurry right back to him with the next find. I've run into guys like that from time to time and find they are more bravado than brains usually.

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Yeah, I was kinda in a WTF mode after that.
No class.

Anyway, on the up side, at couple of the Archaeological Society events, (I did join and have beeen a menber for a while now), the newspaper guy that covers that stuff blows right past the guy and heads over to me
for "comments".

I guess I'm not the only ones that considers him kinda an Awhole.

Takes all kinds....................

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rick

Hey rudy, you're avatar got hijacked by a goose.

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Yeah they can be a pest ("goose" is that a test?)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rudyumans

Yeah they can be a pest ("goose" is that a test?)

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Pests? You want I should take care of dat for use?

Be careful, Crash. It's wearing a red mask! That might be their colors.

Hunter - I know you have some Indian nations up there. Most notably the Hochunk and the Oneida (I've spent a LOT of time around Madison. Months and months) albeit a bit north of you on both accounts. Some of the elders might be able to help you identify some of those points. You could touch base through their web sites. I know some other nations out of Illinois (Illini for sure) were relocated into Wisconsin at the white man's request so they probably are not purely Wisconsin in origin but I'll bet they will know a few of those just by what they are made out of. Just a thought.

Thanks for the advice.
Been kinda working on it, as there are a lot of contacts thru the Archaeological Society, as well at the head of the Archaeological Department at the local collage.

The last site excavated was the Vieau Site, started by Jacques Vieques who started trading with the NorthwestCo started the post at Milwaukee.
We are located next to the Jambeau Trail, the overland route from Chicago and Green bay.
Native Americans pronounced the name" Jacques Vieques, as "Jam-beau", hence Jambeau Trail.

Louis, born 1812,and Jacque Jr., born 1804, took over running the Skunk Grove site in 1830 and married Indian women from the adjacent Potawatomi village.

I worked collection, cleaning and cataloging artifacts from this site, and am working on some test digs on Simmons Island in Kenosha, site of the first tavern in the area.
Was outside the limits of "Southport" at the time.

Lots of students and Professors involved and I have been hanging out and asking questions.

I was kinda led to believe that the head museum dude wasn't really interested in my small collection, so tough crap, I'm hanging on to it.

Lots of way to skin a cat (sorry sjj, figure of speech)

Chain of evidence my a@#. Clear cutting and bulldozing wind rows destroys the artifacts forever and yet you have saved some to be appreciated. Not horded by some Indiana Jones wannabe were they will never be viewed again.

I live in an area rich with Native American artifacts. I have seen the sun and moon worship sites here that predate any found elsewhere. I am a few hours from poverty point , another area as old as we have found. I have seen these " Indian Jones types and dealt with their thievery of real History. Not the convoluted stuff taught today where we were the heroes on the white charger. I have had them in their intelligence tell me that I did not find the solid heads in the pics below as they were made in areas many states from here. Fools! The whole lot of them!

Here are some pieces of my history as well as yours. I found some here at my house and some on the Ouachita River. The pottery has designs still scratched in it.

I cherish them very much and wonder to their path into my hand to be passed on to my grand son should he value them as I. Sell them? Never! Not even the broken pieces. Share them with ppl that feel the same? Yes down to the last one.

Love the collection and ty for sharing them. As to the question of a flatside and arched side. the majority of all the whole and pieces I have are elliptical on both sides.
http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/z...DSCF9273-1.jpg

The top box are all broken pieces.
http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/z...DSCF9272-1.jpg

So....how do you really feel about it?

Nice collection. Gives you the mental image of someone making that pot and scribing the designs into it.

Here's a question for you collectors. When I went on the 127 rummage sale trail this year there was a guy at one of the sales that had quite a collection of pieces. He had a stone shaped like a hawk only this thing must have weighed 20 pounds. It was probably 10 inches long, six inches wide and 6 or 7 inches tall. It had the standard indentation in the back where a handle would have been attached. What would they have used something like that for? It looked like an ancient sledge hammer but I sure wouldn't want to have used it.

Sounds like an axe but without seeing it I cant say for sure. A lot of that stuff is faked and I mean a lot.

I am learning to Knapp right now but I have been using glass/Obsidian. When I do make the move to stone I will drill a hole in the piece so as not to have it confused with an artifact.

Since making a few pieces you really get an understanding for how the points were made and how they were valued. In my area Of North La. it is believed that the bows were somewhat common and traded for by other tribes. In South La bows were not common as the environment does lend its self to making a good bow. The humidity is killer. spears and atlatla were used and the points reflect this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rick

Here's a question for you collectors. When I went on the 127 rummage sale trail this year there was a guy at one of the sales that had quite a collection of pieces.


He had a stone shaped like a hawk only this thing must have weighed 20 pounds. It was probably 10 inches long, six inches wide and 6 or 7 inches tall. It had the standard indentation in the back where a handle would have been attached. What would they have used something like that for? It looked like an ancient sledge hammer but I sure wouldn't want to have used it.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Erratus Animus

Sounds like an axe but without seeing it I cant say for sure. A lot of that stuff is faked and I mean a lot.

---

I keep my eyes out as well, but I wouldn't trust something from a yard sale.

I know a couple/few/alot of guys, that are pretty good at it, LOL
They are not "FAKE", just not very old, if you know what I mean.

Rick any pic's?
Was it like this?:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...CT0777crop.jpg

EA, Nice collection.
I get a kick out of finding and possibly even trying to use something that could be 1000's of years old.
I guess I'm not the only one that walks around looking for anything intresting.

I like to move slow, and use the "stop, sit, scan, let mind wonder", method, and stuff just starts appearing, like out of nowhere.
If I'm supposed to have it, it will appear............
Thanks for the pic's!

Hunter, about twice that size judging from the knife and much more blunt at the front. It looked more like a pounding instrument that a true tomahawk. I'd never seen one like it or seen anything that large before. I should have taken a picture of it.

Lots of things it could have been Rick. My guess (and it's just a guess) would be a spalling hammer, to break chunks off of a larger boulder. You don't swing a sledge at a spall like you are driving a railroad spike.. it's a series of heavy taps. Large heavy swings tend to fracture your spalls and boulders. It has to do with the relationship of kinetic energy transfer and weight.. One of Newton's laws, I think.

to Hunter: It's amazing what you find when you don't know what you are looking for!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by your_comforting_company

Lots of things it could have been Rick. My guess (and it's just a guess) would be a spalling hammer, to break chunks off of a larger boulder. You don't swing a sledge at a spall like you are driving a railroad spike.. it's a series of heavy taps. Large heavy swings tend to fracture your spalls and boulders. It has to do with the relationship of kinetic energy transfer and weight.. One of Newton's laws, I think.

to Hunter: It's amazing what you find when you don't know what you are looking for!

---

LOL, You got that right!
You must know what I'm talking about when I say , "Let your mind wonder," I do it way too often.

Funny because stuff just starts appearing, when you allow you eyes, ears to just, scan without any interference.
You just need to have a subconscious "list of intresting stuff" to draw from.

What were we just talking about?.....................

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