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Other than an AK or SKS what other semiauto rifles or carbines are out there in 7.62x39? I've seen some ARs in that caliber but I don't know anyone personaly who has had experience with one. All I can find on the net is folks saying they just won't function. The only other one I can think of is a Mini 30. Any ideas or should I just go AK?
Go with the AK. I have (I mean HAD - they were stolen :innocent:) two Romanian versions. One is a more recent acquisition that I haven't fired, but if it performs and holds up as well as its cousin in my gun safe, I'll be thrilled.
I would go with a used stainless mini-30 ranch rifle, and a folding stock.
I have considered the mini30 for awhile. The down side is the lack of hi-cap mags. Also I "hear" Ruger suggest not using Wolf or mil-surplus type ammo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sourdough
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiggersngrits
Don't they offer 20 rd and 30 Round Magazines......? if not just change out the follower.
I've got the mini 30. I have not used them, but they do make after market 10 and 20 round mags.
Is the any specific reason for the 7.62 X39 cartridge?
The ballistics are nothing special, designed for military applications, and I would guess that's why there aren't a lot of options as far a different firearms designs out there.
If that's what you want to use, I would go with the Ruger Mini 30, as well.
The Siga is a sporting version built on the AK action. Pretty good following out there.
The SKS actually makes a very usable sporting rifle if aftermarket goodies are applied. Sporter stock, scope rail dust cover. I have redone several for various people. Most actually enjoyed the concept. It is absolutely impossible to make an AR look like anything but an assult rifle, even in pink.
Back in the mid-90s, when SKS was selling for $90 and the Winchester and Marlin lever guns went $$$$ky high the SKS became it's replacement in my area.
The cartridge duplicates 30-30 balistics and does the same job.
Most companies offer their short action bolt rifles in the chambering. NEF and Rossi both offer SS rifles in the cartridge.
The cheap surplus ammo is one appeal.
I agree about the cheap ammo, been banging away with a Yugo SKS for a while now, did mount up a scope on a replacement cover, and shoots pretty good.
Would I use it for hunting, most likely not, as there are other options available, and being more of a bolt gun and SS kind of guy, haven't really did any sporterizing.
Could you use it for hunting? sure, they make soft nose loads every day, and are pretty much a 30-30 clone, and would be a lower cost self loading option.
I haven't seen a NEF model at least for the SS.
Did find a Rossi:
http://www.rossiusa.com/product-list.cfm?category=9
i'm glad there are others that like the sks too. a sks can be a funny beast, i've seen beat up old chi-com models out shoot nice looking pristine soviet bloc models. i guess ya shouldn't judge a sks by it's outward appearance. i like the sks, there is no magazine to lose and with stripper clips it's fast to reload. the ones i have have been more accurate than the aks i have owned so much so i traded off the aks.
my father owned a mini-30 and didn't care for it, actually it probably held the record for the gun that he owned for the shortest amount of time. he just couldn't get it to shoot to his satisfaction.
And the sks's don't seem to picky about ammo.
It's fun to shoot, I was spinning a five gal bucket on a post at 200yds (sorta, paced off) against my buddies AR, with his trick red dot sight.
He need to do some sighting work I guess, so I asked him if he wanted to try the sks, and he ask how much ammo I had with, said maybe 500 rds or so..........
I guess I should add that there are 30 round mags available too. Here's mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by crashdive123
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i.../Mini30005.jpg
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i.../Mini30006.jpg
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i.../Mini30008.jpg
remember back in the heyday when a 800 round case of 7.62 x 39 could be had for 80 or so dollars. if i remember right it seems like there was some for 60 something a case. those days are long gone.
I think the cheapest I ever got it was for about $100 for a 1000 round case, so yeah - same price that you remember.
I've had an SKS, but sold it about 7 years ago. I still have a good supply of ammo.
All the hi-cap Mini-30 mags I've seen got bad reviews.
I am trying to reduce the number of different calibers I store. I thought about going with .308 bolt/semi guns since I aready have a .308 bolt gun, Steyr prohunter heavy barrel. My buddy got an AR-10, its pretty sweet but that sucker is just too heavy.
I have also been looking at a CZ 527 bolt gun in 7.62x39. It would be sufficient for any game in my area, 150 lbs. whitetail at 100 yards.
We have a gun show here this weekend so let the jonesing begin.
Dang, crash.....That's some good looking wood, on that rifle!:drool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiggersngrits
Ruger also offers a Stainless carbine size bolt action in 7.62X39.
I saw those looking around on the web this a.m. Also see that Remington has one. No Mini-30s at the show today, but there where Mini-14s everywhere. Plenty of SKS ($325-400),AK($425-800), the only other 7.62x39 semi I saw was a Saiga ($549) which looked O.K.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sourdough
Handled a Ruger single six, I liked it.
The prize of the show was a Marbles Game Getter in 22lr,/.410 with 18" barrels and folding stock. It looked like a second generation model. That thing counldn't have weight much more than 2lbs. They are supposed to be coming out with a new model. But the price $1800:noway:
I really like my mini-30 in SS, but I must say it's quite heavy and I wouldn't agree that it is equal to the 30-30 as far as deer hunting goes. I'm actually not too confident using it for big game due to the lack of power, but it is extremely accurate.
I shot a deer using the wolf 154 gr.? soft points at point blank range and it just walked off, right in the lungs, little blood trail that trickled away to nothing and the deer was never found. I don't believe the bullet passed thru.
Mighta just been a bad shot but I haven't trusted it since.
I am considering getting a Galil in 7.62x39 myself. Uses AK mags and AK ammo, and is much more accurate than the AK.
http://elitefirearms.net/galil.html
http://www.gunblast.com/LT_Elite-Galil.htm
I guess I still have to question spending the money on Ruger bolt gun in 7.62 X 39 when there are so many more calibers available...........Quote:
Originally Posted by Sourdough
Now if you already own an AK, SKS, I guess I could concede wanting a bolt gun as an addition, redundant caliber, or you already have all the other calibers, have access to unlimited supply of ammo, or just want a new gun?
Clem, thats a sweet looking machine, but for that price one could get 3 Saigas and 4000 rds.of ammo. I would ship it directly to Q.C. ( Crash/Ken) for an eval. P.M. me for my ...I mean their address.
Sourdough, don't know why the Mini-30 is so hard to find around here. There are Mini-14s everywhere. You would think with the .30cal. ammo being cheaper there would be more of them around.
Hunter, the bolt gun would be just for kicks (but aren't most of them). I'am really liking the CZ 527. It has the same size bore as the military semis. Some of the bolt guns have a .308 bore, others .311.
I am leaning towards the Saiga today. Anyone have personal experience with one?
I a lot bigger fan of the .308, as they have truely made it into a sporting round as well as military, I concure with your opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clem
I wonder how much more accurate you can make the 7.62 X 39?
I'm not a fan of ANY of the modern military cartridges. Cartridges have sacrificed to much lethality to accomidate mechanical advancements in weapons. I like the classic military cartridges like 7x57 Mauser that C. W. Bell used to kill over a thousand Elephants or the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser and the 30.06 that have proven themselves far beyond the battlefield. The only cartridge that maintained its better qualities and modified the weapons to accomidate the cartridge is the Russian 7.62x54. Those weapons have an extra mechanism that allows cartridges to be chambered individually being able to keep rimmed case. Tapered cases burn powder better too. This cartridge has never reached its full potential do to weak actions and .310 groove depths. The military has many more factors to consider than just creating the best weapon they can, especially for the individual.
7.62 rimmed gave the Russian designers fits due to the rim and heavy taper. It complicates the design features to an unacceptable degree and it was the mid '50s before they overcame the problems enough to make a true simiauto issue rifle in the full caliber cartridge.
We had done that in the late '30s. The Germans were well on their way as were the Danes and FN.
The Russian accuracy problems have always been due to variations in bore size due to unskilled labor, poor QC, using reamers and broaches too long and mad dash production needs. If the bore was always .310 it would be no problem. I have micked them all the way out to .325 after seeing keyholes at 25 yds. A .308 rattled down that bore like a golf ball down a sewer pipe!
Not that they are all bad. Sometimes one gets lucky.
The Enfield suffers from the same problems, but the design was superior to the MN, and the U. S. gis were familiar with them due to association with the Brits, so they fared better on the surplus market.
The cheap guns and cheap ammo in 7.63x39 has been its redeaming quality, and that is nearly dried up in both regards.
Something about picking up an old mauser in any of its caliber offerings. You can look down the bore and know that if the rifling is good it will shoot where it looks. It will be powerful enough to do the intended job. And no one is going to look at you strangely whern you take it out of the guncase.
To get an idea of how accurate the Russian cartridge is the Finnish M-38 is the rifle to shoot, many of which were made by SAKO. War time production runs often sacriced quality which is why the Arisaka is known for have the strongest and weakest action depending on when it was manufactured. It also contributes the unmatched quality of the Swedish Mauser that never fought in battle. BTW I'm not expressing opinion. Back in those days countries held matches using the host countries weapons and a matter of record and the Swedish Mauser was by far the most accurate. The Russian cartridge won the 1936 Olympics if I remember correctly and the Finns proved it on the battlefield and had a sniper with over 500 kills using open sights. No one has come close to breaking his record. P.O. Ackley tested actions to the point of blowing them up. My own experience confirms what I have read with the most accurate being the Swedish Mauser followed closely by the Finnish M-38. Rear lockin lugs of the Enfield makes then the fastest action but accuracy suffers because of it and they have seen so much action as has the Mosin Nagant to find them in good condition. Turkish Mausers have a good reputation but have not seen the advantage over German Mausers. The market does dry up and I have been stuck with a few like the French Mas in 7.5. The best ones will survive if they can prove themselves as hunting rounds like the 30.06.
Many years ago I read that the SOP for Russian Field armorers was to never repair a Mosin. If disabled they were to be sent back to one of the production sites where the barrels were removed, cut into three pieces, and turned down on lathes to produce three Ppsh submachine guns. The barrel was the most difficult part to produce and except for barrel and bolt the entire gun was sheet metal stampings.
They equipped entire batallions with nothing but the Ppsh. Except for their snipers, accuracy secondary to putting something that would shoot into the hands of about a zillion soldiers.
I am sure the snipers got to hand pick their Mosins.
When the SVD came out in the '60s there was a $1,000,000 reward for the first unit turned over to the CIA. I think it was finally collected by some Afgan in the mid '80s. They were amazed that the gun was not any better than it was. 3MOA was standard with service ammo. The spooks had expected a super-rifle and found that anything we had issued in the past 100 years would outshoot it.
I must admit that I hold little regard for the "half-a-cartridge rifles" now the standard.
Thanks for all your responses. Gonna have to think on it for awhile. I read that some of the problems with the AR in 7.62x39 have been fixed with redesigned firingpin and boltface. The prob was mostly with steel cased ammo.
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