secondary position

Whats your secondary defensive position?

You get booted from your home. What's your back-up plan? Have you split your stores and can you survive the elements? What type of supplies and for how long would you plan for?

My back-up plan is something that needs work. I'm thinking about a couple of 55 gallon barrels with locking lids to fill with my needs. These would need to be semi-burried away from the home.

Weapons and ammo, axe, knife, saw, shelter, fire making equipment, first aid, water purification, long term storage food for a month, a pot and pan, candles, a sleeping bag or wool blanket(1-for-2 peeps),navigation, quarters and phone numbers, cash, packs, stove, change of clothes and boots.

It's kinda hard for me to have such a place. With moving every few years, which will soon come to an end I hope, plus having my belongings spread across the Country it's impossible to have a good secondary position. I guess my overall goal would be to own some property, 10-20 acres, away from my permanent residence with a small hunting cabin or whatever. Of course it would be stocked with neccessities like food, water, clothes etc. It would be hard to have more than a few weeks, maybe a months worth of supplies on hand at any given time in my opinion. It would work for a short term situation only. Realistically I, along with most people, will never have such a place and even if they do, who says they will be able to reach this place. My logic is things would have to be pretty bad for me to leave my home so I doubt I would be able to reach a secondary shelter.

I hope this thread gets traction: This summer I am going to establish some remote caches. I also know of remote abandoned cabins & miners cabins that I could retreat too.

my " 1st choice " BOL is a remote corner of an auto junk yard with 8-9 caches within 150 yds
i figure when TSHTF, pampered city people won't be looking for food/water in a junk yard
i made friends with the guard dog awhile ago

a secondary BOL is an old abandoned factory just outside the city limits
again, with 8(?) caches surrounding the factory

and depending on the weather and time of year, there's always sleeping under the stars

i'm a big believer in defense thru mobility
if someplace gets " crowded ", i just pick up and move instead of trying to defend " a postition "

The more I explore new places, the harder it is to decide what would be my second choice if I had to leave here. Either way, it's going to be deep woods with tough terrain, and I have to agree that mobility is a much better option than defending any single establishment. Stealth and invisibility will serve me much better than trying to cache ammo and food in any single place.
This year already I've found 2 more prime locations for establishing a camp. I think ultimately the decision will be made depending on the situation. Will I go North or South? Both options offer the same resources. They are about the same distance from here, but in opposite directions.

I guess I have to take a slightly different view. Although my primary plan is to stay in place. If I were to have to go to a BOL. It would be with the extended family that is more than adequately provisioned. The group would be family and there would be no question about splitting off from the group once it is assembled (family, first last and always).From that location, I could not envision another relocation. Because of the size and variety of ages, relocating from there would not be a real option. I guess we would have to stand fast and take it on the chin.

Depends on the reason I have to leave. When you use the term "booted" it conjures up someone forcing me from my home. Perhaps that isn't what you intended. But, in any case, if had to leave it would be to family, like Pal said, and vice versa if they had to leave.

My place IS the secondary defensive position.

If my place becomes untenable it will be going to position 3 for a group of 50+- well organized and well provisioned close family and friends. Pregnant women, babies, teens young adults middle aged and elderly with all the skills needed for a vibrant community. This group will not just pick up and leave position 2. And knowing these people I can not imagine the force that could drive them out.

After 25 years of saving, planning, building, stocking, (and paying for it all) I have two locations as primary.
I have to consider "The Place" (the cabin) as a primary, as well as the city house, as I do spend a lot of time there for at least 3 seasons.
So redundancy is the name of the game.

Secondary plan would be mobility, as all vehicles are stocked, with at least minimal "assets and supplies".

That said, BOB's are in all locations,(packaged) and I continue to add to them, so at last resort, an on foot BO, being necessary, the assets and supplies are portable as the amount you can carry.

Next step may be the secondary caches, and have given this some thought, but really haven't decided on a location, nor if I really want to go that far. (as far as anyone knows).
I'm thinking that storage in concealed drums and such, wouldn't lend them selves to inspections and re-supplies.

We have stores here for a bug in situation, Mobile stores in BOV and others ready to load in trailer here. Have a storage building in a nearby town ( much cheaper than here) we have about 3 weeks ( plan to ad more as I can) supplies in storage bldg. Allso have " family" stores at sister and BIL's home in a town 50 miles away. Thinking of renting a storage "locker" up near Tell city indiana where we vacation for a few supplies there. I can get a small locker storage there. It's 4'X4' and 8' tall in a secured climate control building for $30 a month.

By the term "booted" I was referring to leaving or being unable to get your supplies.

My family is 1,600 miles away. That could be good or bad depending on the evacuation.

My current back-up is a vehicle. It is mobile for two flats, a mechanical or you run out of gas. Since I keep it at the primary location I may not be able to retrieve it when needed.
I keep a limited amount of supplies in the vehicles. There is enough for a few days. Again, if you cannot get to your vehicle then, ... It's not that hard to imagine that your vehicles go down with the primary.

So, I'm thinking of a cache. It could be in a buried container on the corner of your yard, a storage facility, a boat, at a family or friends home (you have indicated this in your responses). Something that you could "bury" for ten years and know it was there if you needed it.

Here's a link that talks a little about caches. There are others that speak about how to build caches (mostly smaller pvc type).

http://dlsoucy.wordpress.com/2009/12...urvival-cache/

I'm going to use a couple of 55 gallon containers. They should hold enough supplies.

I am lost in the concept at this point.

If I lose access to the yard how does a cache in the yard help me?

Gear cached off property is disposable. Once you walk off and leave it, finders keepers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kyratshooter

If I lose access to the yard how does a cache in the yard help me?

---

It doesn't . If you lost your primary to fire, tornado or ???. Perhaps after a day or so you could reclaim your yard. It'd be nice to have something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kyratshooter

Gear cached off property is disposable. Once you walk off and leave it, finders keepers.

---

On the property too.
The importance of camouflage and redundant systems.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rebel

.............So, I'm thinking of a cache. It could be in a buried container on the corner of your yard, a storage facility, a boat, at a family or friends home (you have indicated this in your responses). Something that you could "bury" for ten years and know it was there if you needed it.

Here's a link that talks a little about caches. There are others that speak about how to build caches (mostly smaller pvc type).

http://dlsoucy.wordpress.com/2009/12...urvival-cache/

I'm going to use a couple of 55 gallon containers. They should hold enough supplies.

---

I have often thought of the same thing, BUT I get hung up in the:

What to cache?
What gonna last for 10 years.......and how do you know it won't "Go bad", talking food here.
Where am I gonna be in ten years, or ten days for that matter?
It would have to be a bury and forget?

If it was bad enough to put you out of your locations, I not sure that what ever you can store in a couple of drums is gonna do you much good.

Like I said I have thought about this often, but haven't seen/figured out, or commited to this in anykind of big way.

I'd be mobile and taking and procuring what I needed as I went. No bol for me. Anchors!

I have no "bug out location". As others have said, my intentions are to shelter in place unless that is not practical. I have prepared in such a manner that being mobile should not be difficult (for most problems that may hit my area). For short term bug outs a motel is probable, but prepared to camp. For longer term bug outs (which I do not think are likely) I would seek out relatives (but there are very few of them).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rwc1969

I'd be mobile and taking and procuring what I needed as I went. No bol for me. Anchors!

---

Mmmm, I see someone that would be particularly unwelcome in my neighborhood :)

Have you ever tried to bury a 55 gal barrel?

We used to joke about burrying our guns when I lived in TN. We always claimed it would do no good. We would have to haul in the dirt and They would spot the pile as soon as they walked into the yard.

One nice thing about big families. I have enough stuff out on loan to make a good start if my house winds up blown to OZ.

Caching sounds good but there are very few things that will actully stand up to being burried for any length of time. I have seen tree roots crush PVC sewer pipe. I have often left sealed containers on the ground, opened them latter to find critters inside, as if by magic.

Better, I think, to have stuff scattered around and call it in if needed.

One reason both my vehicles look like they belong to a refugee form Sigon in '75.

I think the two things that come to mind about burying in a 55 gallon drum.

1. Stuff inside can rust.
2. The barrel could float out of the ground if the water table is high.

Quote:

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Whats your secondary defensive position?

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The fetal position?:blushing: LOL

Actually, I'd rather stay put, but if I had to go, it would be to my parents place. About 30 acres of country property, with cleared land, wooded land, and a spring fed creek.

Run into forest with young adolescents. Have a grand old time filled with boar spearing and homoerotic tribal dances. Start huge forest fire and get rescued by passing navy vessel. Oh wait im on an island.....

Homoerotic tribal dances? Is that like square dancing? I don't think I've ever had that ... um ... response.

Don't need one. Where I live IS fall back territory. Way too many hills & hollows here and across the river and people who don't take to strangers. It would be tough to get these ole boys to back up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ole WV Coot

Don't need one. Where I live IS fall back territory. Way too many hills & hollows here and across the river and people who don't take to strangers. It would be tough to get these ole boys to back up.

---

Same here.

I live 50 miles south of Cinnci. It is like no one there knows there is land south of the Ohio River. TV stations do not cover news here past the Covington city limits. A 3 county area that is the largest population concentration in KY and for all practical purposes it does not exist.

Bangers in Ohio do not cross. They are actually scared of crossing the River. Of course that might be due to the attitude. In the past 2 years people in KY have purchased nearly 4 million firearms in a population of 4.5 million people. That does not count what they already owned. General banger consisis; "you go over there they shoot your @$$!"

I am south of the burbs in rural area. Also strange due to an imaginary line that says "This is the country, population dries up here!" Suddenly I am immersed in tradition, country roads, cornfields and big clans. That is what I grew up in so I slide into it well. Having local names to drop helps. I married into one of the local clans.

One of the traditions is taking no crap and serving you country. Right here in my little corner of the world I have FIL that is a Korea vet, I am Viet vet, #1 son is First Desert Storm, #2 and 3 are Iraq vets. That is the norm here.

Leave here? And go where, to what? To be with whom?

That's okay, ratshooter. As long and you and she are from different clans, you'll be okay... I think.

Some interesting thoughts here. I posted some points on a survival hidey hole at ******* a couple days ago if interested.

Couple of points here re succesful cache location and building.

Presuming that you are in fact forced to move to a secondary location you will probably be on the run, and as such unable to function in the open.Therefore you need to plan now to place your cache in subterfuge.

I don't reccomend 55 gallon drums for a couple of reasons;

1: If you use a 55 gallon drum you will be tempted to stuff it full of gear. Might be OK under normal circumstances, but if you are on the run will you be able to travel easily with it? Probably not, and so you will leave something behind, even if it is the empty drums and a gaping hole that the drums were in. Dead giveaway every time. Makes it easier to find you.

2: A 55 gallon drums provides a tremendous profile. From metal dectors view they are very easy to locate, especially with the long range detectors and with GPR (ground penetrating radar) Plus, you will disturb much soil, and the replacement growth may end up being different than what was there originally, another giveaway. Additionally, unless you repack around the drums properly there will be settling and a resulting depression in the soil. Another giveawy.

The better way is to make a cache tube with PVC, the green commercial stuff is the best. (I also blogged on this as you already know) Use no more than a 24" diameter pipe and seal it tightly, one end with a screw fitting. Remove a layer of sod the size of the hole you will dig. Using a post hole digger, dig a hole deep enough to bury the tube vertically at least 2-3 feet deeper than the tube is long. Pack the dirt back into the hole, placing a brake rotor or some other auto part about 12" deep over it, and then finish filling the hole. Carry the remaining dirt a good distance from the hole to scatter it around.

The verticle placement of the tube will make a small profile for a metal detector, but a horizontally buried tube makes for a long and narrow profile suggesting a buried firearm. The brake rotor will be dug up by the detectorist and hopefully fool them into thinking he just located a auto junkpile. Rotors are relatively new, suggesting there are probably no antique auto parts there.

As far as locating them, try to place them in intervals along your escape route(s) well away form a roadway, and on a hillside to avoid the groundwater issue. If you can, take the tubes with you and discard them in a place where they would not be conspicuous, such as in an abandoned construction site along you way to throw off anyone that may be on your tail.

If you make sort of regular trips several times a year along your planned routes you will become very familiar with them, and that may allow you to travel at night, and in the dark, which would be to your advantage.

Anyways, that's a few of my thoughts, don't know if anyone will agree or not, but that is what my plan would entail for moving to a secondary and caching along the way.

You might try posting an Introduction so we know who's giving us the advice. You can use the template at:

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ead.php?t=7813

I removed the link to your site. You can't post it in the body of you message. You can add it to your signature if you wish, however.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rick

That's okay, ratshooter. As long and you and she are from different clans, you'll be okay... I think.

---

When you get a marriage liscense in KY there is an unusual question on the form.

"How are you related to the other party?"

Not ARE you related? HOW are you related?:blushing:

Fortunately, my wife was from New York, and brought her clan with her. I was from TN and left my clan there. They will not let my bunch into KY but one at a time.

I had a client in a counseling center once whose grandfather was also his father, his brother was his uncle and his mother was his sister and his aunt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rick

You might try posting an Introduction so we know who's giving us the advice. You can use the template at:

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ead.php?t=7813

I removed the link to your site. You can't post it in the body of you message. You can add it to your signature if you wish, however.

---

I'll do that. I posted the link since Rebel had previously posted it re: cache issue, indicating that there is more pertaining to secondary and evac issues as well at that site.

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