Hi,
Do you have many animals and birds that warn you of danger in your forests? For example if a bear, big cat or other people are on the move or hunting do other animals(birds, small mammals) indicate the fact?
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Hi,
Do you have many animals and birds that warn you of danger in your forests? For example if a bear, big cat or other people are on the move or hunting do other animals(birds, small mammals) indicate the fact?
Jay, that may be a universal truth. Tree squirrels will "bark" incessantly as a warning to other squirrels when a threat is present. Most water fowl are really good at vocalizing.
Other birds will, of course, take flight at the slightest provocation. Bullfinches seem to constantly dart in front of you in twos and threes as you walk through the woods.
On the other hand, frogs will fall silent. I've been out at night when the entire woods fell silent. No insect sounds. Mosquitoes even seem to stop buzzing. That can be one creepy feeling.
Great! that's part of what I ment. Is there enough of a difference in the sound and behaviour to at least tentativley identify the predator?
Our monkeys, the grey langur in pariticular has 4 fairly distinct patterns of vocalisation for leopard, python,& birds of prey, human.
Birds such as drongos scimitar babblers will actually follow a leopard or one of the other cats making an awful row. you can follow the leopard's movenents just by listening to the brids.
Same for Sambhur, spotted deer and barking deer. Barking deer is generally timid and will bark at the slightest disturbance. but if it sees a leopard it will watch and keep barking as long as the animal is in sight. some times even for a few minutes after the animal has gone. Ditto sambhur & spotted deer. On the other hand if only startled by a sound the bark is repeted only 2-3 times..and has a kind of doubtfulness to it. (best way I can describe it)
I find that crickets are another good indicator.
Have you noticed a differnce, i.e. intensity,pitch, etc?
Ditto on the crickets. Forgot about them.
Where I live, the only wild predators are fox, a few bob cats, many more feral cats, and coyote. Birds of prey include hawks, falcons, and (lucky for us) eagles. The eagle numbers are still quite low but they are increasing.
When I lived in Southern Illinois, there were a few wolf but very very rare and the even more rare cougar. I've never seen either a wolf or cougar in the woods but have seen tracks. One of my buddies killed a wolf (made me sick), which made all the papers and a dead cougar was found in the woods near where I lived. There are also threats from domesticated dogs and cats.
You don't have to travel very far to see that list change quite a bit. We are mostly farmland in the Midwest but more heavily forested areas lie to the north, east and south.
Just some background so you understand the geography.
Squirrels will get pretty close to the ground when they see a non climbing predator. They will come down a tree to within five or six feet of a fox, dog or coyote and hang there barking. For cats, they generally stay up in the tree pretty high off the ground. If I'm out and hear a squirrel start to chatter, I'll check where they are. If they are down low then I know it's probably a fox or dog. Their bark is generally intermittent with a ground threat. They will get amazingly close to a bird of prey, however, I've watched squirrels get as close as eight or ten feet from a hawk regardless of how high or low the bird was sitting. Their bark is much more frantic and constant with a hawk than with ground dwellers.
Coyote don't seem to bother water fowl too much. The birds will move away from the shore but they vocalize in a softer voice unless one just surprises them and they are in a panic. In my experience, that's pretty rare. Fox, on the other hand, seems to get them going more. They are louder and their calls more frequent. I've never seen either one go in the water after a duck or goose unless they had little ones with them and they were at the shore line. An adult goose can be pretty aggressive with a fox especial if they are on their nest and they will let the world know when that happens. Very loud and boisterous. Very strong vocalizations. That's pretty unmistakable if its nesting season.
If anyone thinks animals don't communicate, they should spend some time in the woods.
Thanks Rick, this is exactly what I'm intersted in.
Our palm squirrels behave in excactly the same way....I one saw a pair mob a rat snake. They even nipped its tail. They gave the poor snake such a hard time that it just let go and just fell out of the tree.
Great info...thanks again. If anyone else has similar experiences to Rick's I like to hear them if I may.
Jay - One side note that I've looked for and not been able to find any documentation on. Since many (most I guess) birds see in ulta-violet, I've often wondered if they don't communicate warnings with feather displays. I know they certainly do for territory and mating. The common sparrow is a really good example. They have a darker crest on their chest that happens to reflect ultra violet light. The larger the crest, the more light it reflects, and the more dominant the bird. It's like a beacon or a flashlight to the other birds even in the middle of the day. We just can't see it. I've often wondered if some flashing of that crest or some other similar display as a warning doesn't cause them to take flight instead of just one following the leader as it appears to us to be.
quite possibly the most incorrect cliche ever. As far as animal communication goes, I recommend anyone go out and study a flock of geese. They have specific warning calls, mating calls, landing and take off calls. Scout geese have specific calls to bring the rest of the flock in.
A mother eagle on a nest of eggs or young will call out to her mate if she feels threatened. She'll fly off the nest and circle around, but the call if for the male to come back. Ravens are the number one aggressor to the eagle, followed by humans. Ravens are a lot easier for the eagles to deal with, though.
Squirrels and chipmunks I've found are the best to count on if there's a predator in the area.
I have a couple of duck calls and my 14 month old grandson just figured out how to make them work this week. He almost has the ticka ticka feed call going on. Except he has them backwards and sucks on 'em. Pretty funny.
they say geese are the best guard animals you can have in your yard. They're extremely territorial and they raise an unholy ruckus at intruders and they stay watch day and night. Also they'll attack an intruder, but if the intruder's on the ball that just means you provided him with Christmas dinner....
Sometimes....things just go quiet...real quiet....for no visible reason that when I really start paying attention..when the "bush people" are listening
Yeah, I put some thought into that posting. I don't wanna talk about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by carcajou garou
Yes " bush people" very good way to put it ,I like that ...Ultra-Violet I sometime think what else do we not see ??
You guys have guineas up there? Crazy loud devils. Even kill snakes.
Good point, Smok. If you really think about. We are probably the least equipped animal to survive. Good surround hearing, lousy pinpoint hearing. Great depth perception. Lousy distance vision and it's limited to a small spectrum. Can't smell anything farther than our armpits, even then it has to be a pretty strong odor. Just one big honkin' brain. Ain't we lucky?
I know the feeling well. the hairs on the back of your neck stand up. I dont ever ignore it. Some times I never see anything..but I back out of the area quietly and the feeling subsides and the jungle returns to normal after awhile. Cant really explain it. Other times I have become aware of elephant or bear in the bush just a few meters away. Would surely have walked smack into them if I had continued on my way.Quote:
Originally Posted by carcajou garou
thats why being in tune with you surroundings is vital to survival.
I have been trying to remember which movie this really great scene comes from. I think it's the Deer Hunter. Some may remember this. In the States, a young man is getting ready to leave for Viet Nam and one of the guys with him has just returned. They are with their girls and getting ready to go inside a store. The kid is sitting in the car and all hopped up about making his first kill and the seasoned guy grabs him and tells him to close his eyes and shut up.
"Hear that?" the older guy asks.
"What?" asks the kid.
"Nothing. That's what death sounds like in the jungle. When you hear that you are about to die."
Or something along those lines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Your are absolutly right Rick,
Now that I come to think of it I have never heard of birds communicating danger through color display. Strange since their cousins the reptiles use it widely. Maybe like you say we just cant see it. Would be fantastic topic or research if the protocols can be established and proper equipment found.
Jay - I think there is literally a whole world out there humans know nothing about because we can't see it or hear it. From ultra-violet plummage to infrasonic elephant calls.
Have you read "Silent Thunder" by Katy Payne? Some good insights insights into infrasound and elephant behaviour.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
I'm a big deer hunter and I've learned a lot about how deer communicate through watching them. Whenever deer hear something they think might be not right or out of place they will lift there heads. Whenever you watch a group of deer, you will notice this if you pay attention, If one deer raises it's head then all the other deer will lift their heads and watch it. Just a deer raising it's head tells all the others that "hey something might not be right here". If that same deer thinks that it is okay, it will flap it's tail, telling the rest that it was nothing. Then they all go back to feeding. If that deer knows something is out of place, then it will raise it's tail, and then off they all go.
Spot on ..Hunty!Quote:
Originally Posted by hunty18
This is the kind of insight that and intimate knowledge of the surroundings that will help prevent tragedies.
FYI...when grazing our spotted deer will raise their heads from time to time and check out the surroundings. just before lifting the head the tail will wag a little. If you are stalking them just watch out for that tail & freeze when it starts to move. If something is not right or if it detects you but is not quite sure,it will stamp on the ground with a fore foot. All the others will then go on alert. Sometimes one or two will advance a few feet towards you. once sure that there is some danger one will snort, (more like a sneeze) and the whole herd will take off.
We, human beings, can only understand and reason about what's around us in human terms. We know very little about how other animals communicate in the wild. We can perhaps imagine the converse. But like you said, "Sometimes...things just go quiet...real quiet..."Quote:
Originally Posted by carcajou garou
Animals communicate in a nonverbal language of the senses and emotions: pictures, sounds, smells, feelings, etc. It is a universal language shared by all species all over the world because pictures and feelings are the same in any language. Like humans, animals also use body language. It adds emphasis to their telepathic language.
Our animals are reading our minds all the time. They see our thoughts; they know what we're thinking. If you have ever considered giving your bath-hating dog a bath and he immediately ran to hide, you have seen this communication at work. A pretty afternoon that brings the thought of a walk in the park may result in your dog waiting anxiously by the door or pestering you to get the leash. They saw your thoughts and believed you were going for a walk.
Children are born with the ability to use this form of communication. They can, and often do, converse with the pets in their family. However, when they start to verbalize and learn to read, they forget their first language (the language the animals still use). It can be re-learned.
Anyone who uses this form of communication can talk with the animals. The most difficult part is learning to ignore one's logic. Because we know our own pets so well, they are often the most difficult for us to get information from. Fortunately, sending information to our own pets is easy. Are the "bush people" listening to and reacting to us? I think so.
Corndog 44,
You are absolutly right. Animals seem to be able to read our innermost thoughts.
I'm glad I found this forum.
Birds use their body and body parts to convey messages to others. These messages are sometimes very obvious and almost any person could interpret their meaning. Others are subtle and need someone experienced to interpret them. Many species have their own body languages, while many body languages cross the bird-species border. Observing and interpreting bird body language made my relationship with the forest much easier and satisfying. For nearly 20 years while I was out and about I observed bird's eyes, vocalizations, wings, tail, beak, and overall posture by using binoculars and taking notes...it can be very telling.
Jay here are a few thoughts about bird body language that I thought I'd share with you that I posted on another forum. Hope you can benefit from these observations.
Eyes
Unlike humans, birds are able to control their irises, enlarging and shrinking their pupils rapidly. This display is called "flashing" or "pinning" and birds may do this when they are excited, greatly interested in something, or when they are angry, frightened, or aggressive. Eye pinning should be taken into context with the bird's immediate environment and body posture to get an accurate emotional reading.
Vocalizations
In the wild, birds use various vocalizations to warn others of danger, attract mates, protect their territory, and maintain social contacts. Most birds are highly vocal and many times may be trying to communicate with you.
Singing, talking, and whistling: These vocalizations are often signs of a happy, healthy, content bird. Some birds love an audience and sing, talk, and whistle the most when others are around. Other birds will remain quiet when others are watching.
Chattering: Chattering can be very soft or very loud. Soft chatter can be a sign of contentment or can be the practice of a bird learning to talk. Loud chatter can be an attention-getter, reminding you that she is there. In the wild, birds often chatter in the evening before going to sleep to connect with other flock members.
Purring: Not the same as a cat's purr, a bird's purr is more like a soft growl that can be a sign of contentment or a sign of annoyance. When purring, the bird's environment and other body language should be taken into consideration to determine what the bird is expressing.
Tongue-clicking: By clicking her tongue against her beak, the bird may be entertaining herself or asking for attention.
Growling: Not heard in all birds, growling is an aggressive vocalization. If the bird is growling, you can examine her environment to see if anything may be bothering her. Growling birds do not want to be touched by anything.
Wings
Wings are not always meant for flying; they often are used to communicate.
Wing flapping: Wing flapping, or flying in place, is used as exercise, getting attention, or just displaying happiness. Birds may often simply lift their wings as a means to stretch or to cool themselves.
Wing flipping: Wing flipping can mean many different things such as being angry or in pain. Flipping can also be used to fluff the feathers or get the feathers to lay just right. Wing flipping accompanied by hunching of the shoulders and head bobbing is attention-getting and often means that a bird wants to be fed.
Wing drooping: Young birds must learn how to fold and tuck in their wings and often let their wings droop before learning this. However, in older birds, wing drooping may indicate illness. If the bird has just physically exerted herself or has recently bathed, she may let her wings droop out of exhaustion or to let the feathers dry.
Tail
A bird's tail feathers are also used to communicate.
Wagging: A bird wagging her tail feathers may be telling that she is glad her mate returned. Tail wagging can also be a precursor to defecating.
Flipping: Tail flipping is a general sign of happiness and can be seen when she is happy to see her mate.
Bobbing: Tail bobbing accompanied by rapid breathing that follows strenuous exercise is the bird's way of catching her breath. If, however, the bird is bobbing her tail feathers and breathing hard without activity, she may be showing signs of respiratory distress or infection.
Fanning: Fanning the tail feathers often accompanies other behaviors in a show of aggression or anger. Spreading out the tail feathers is a show that displays the bird's strength and vitality.
Legs and Feet
The legs and feet are not used as much as other body parts to communicate but some of the most interesting behaviors come from them.
Foot tapping: Some birds will tap their feet as a sign of dominance over their territory. This usually only happens when they feel their territory is threatened.
Weak legs: Some birds that are not "ready" to stand or perch for themselves display the sudden onset of "weak legs."
Hanging upside down: Some birds consider hanging upside down a natural part of their behavior. When doing this, they are happy and content with their environment.
Beak
The beak is used for several functions from grooming to cracking nuts and seeds. It can be used as a weapon or to build a nest. There are also many ways a bird uses her beak to tell you things.
Grinding: Beak grinding is often a sign of contentment in birds and is heard most often as the bird falls asleep. It is characterized by the side-to-side sliding of one beak over the other. It is believed by some experts that birds grind their beaks to keep them in their best condition.
Clicking: Clicking of the beak, or the back and forth sliding of one beak tip over the other, can mean several things. If she clicks once and pins her eyes but is otherwise unthreatening, she is greeting or acknowledging something. If she clicks several times in a series, she is giving a warning.
Wiping: It is common to see a bird wiping her beak after eating. Often, the bird will wipe her beak on a perch or on the ground.
Some birds use beak wiping as a way to mark their territory. This behavior may be seen in birds when other birds come near their territory.
Biting: Birds will bite for several reasons so it is important to observe other behaviors and the bird's immediate environment to determine the reason behind it. Defending territory, being fearful, or being angry can all cause a bird to bite.
Chewing: Most birds enjoy chewing and do it for many reasons including to condition their beaks and to entertain themselves.
Regurgitating: Regurgitation is the expulsion of contents from the mouth, esophagus, or crop. If the bird pins her eyes, bobs her head and stretches out her neck, then regurgitates her dinner, she is showing something a great deal of affection. Birds feed their young by regurgitating food and breeding pairs often do this for each other as a part of bonding.
Mouthing: One way birds play is to grab each other's beaks and wrestle. They will often use their beaks to joust at one another during play.
Posture
Overall body posture is important in determining what the bird is trying to say. Some postures have specific meanings; below are a few of the common bird postures.
If the bird has a relaxed body and her head and body are at attention, she is happy and content.
If her head and body are at attention but her body is rigid and her feathers are flared, she is letting other birds know she owns that territory.
If she is crouching with her head down with a relaxed body and raised wings, she is trying to attract attention from a potential mate.
If a bird is crouching with her head down, eyes pinning, flared tail feathers, ruffled feathers, and a rigid body, she is giving a warning and won't hesitate to bite if provoked, even in the most minor way. If this stance is accompanied by an urgent walk toward another bird, it is best for the other bird to get out of the way until she has time to cool off.
Are you on vacation, Corndog?
Rick I'm retired....Why the question?
You obviously put a lot of thought into that response. I just figured you were on vacation.:D
EDIT: By the by, Corndog. Remember, if you're retired, every single day is the first day of vacation.
Corndog-44,
Let me first say a big Thank You for taking the time and trouble to go into so much detail. I think you've laid it all out very well.
I ve been bird watching for over twenty years now and find them endlessly facinating. We have 432 species here in SL including winter migrants from Europe. we are lucky to be where we are. lots of migrants end up here because there is no other suitable landmass south of us. How long have you been birdwatching?
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