To Garand or not to Garand

I guess I like sitting online in the winter and debating firearm choices :) .
So, I've gone and done it now, I'm going 30.06 for my primary hunting cartridge as I have said in my previous posts about slimming down my battery. Cost, effectiveness, availability etc. etc.
I was looking into getting a Garand as they come in 30.06 and are tough as nails. Mostly for a SHTF rifle.
I was also thinking I could reload using my stash of components for my other 30.06's. Well, after some reading it looks like the Garand is a tough bugger and kills brass pretty quick. I have also read you need to use harder military grade primers due to slam firing issues with the free floating firing pin. So they seem a little finicky with regard to reloading and there are quite a few horror stories out there about using commercial hunting ammo in them.
Thoughts? Can you come up with another 30.06 military type firearm that would be under a $1000.00 and worth it? Would the Garand be worth it? I wasn't looking at having to basically start buying ammo for another firearm from scratch ie. not using what I already have. Hmmmm...

IMHO, The Garand would not be my first choice as a hunting/SHTF combo rifle.

They are expensive, hard to come by, heavy, (9,4+ lbs), scope mounts and other accessories are expensive and hard to come by.

http://www.thecmp.org/

You noted the problems with different types of ammo, hunting loads/reloads etc, I have heard, a lot of arguement both ways.
Why put up with that?

I know that there are a lot of guys the swear by them, love them, collect them etc, but would I build a "collection" around them, not me.

If I were to go to a .30 caliber it would be an AR-10 :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-10
or FN FAL. 7.62X51 :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_FAL

By the sixth round...you feel as though you have a bull by the tail, both feet on either side of the bulls tail and eventually you let go to find your paper target blew away...good luck with it!

I can only think of bolt action for under a K.

I agree with Patton!

I'm leaning back to just keeping what I have and get more components. I'm not sure I have the resources to expend for something like this if it means getting new ammo etc. I guess I'll stick with my good bolt guns.
Just throwing stuff out for conversation...

The 30-06 is also my first choice in a hunting rifle. But not a SHTF rifle for reasons already stated. Maybe you should look at a 308 if reloading the only difference would be the cartridge all other components would be the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mountaintrekker

I'm leaning back to just keeping what I have and get more components. I'm not sure I have the resources to expend for something like this if it means getting new ammo etc. I guess I'll stick with my good bolt guns.
Just throwing stuff out for conversation...

---

Wise choice, IMO,chances are that your primary use would be hunting any way, bolt guns are just fine. Sturdy, accurate, not a lot of moving parts to fail.

As MBR I would stay away from auto loading hunting rifles, as they are not intended to keep up a long and substained rate of fire.

Another option would be a larger cal upper for an AR platform, but now you are getting back to a high buck set up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hunter63

They are expensive, hard to come by, heavy, (9,4+ lbs), scope mounts and other accessories are expensive and hard to come by.

---

The Garand has gone from $400 to $900 in two years.
You can use a ramline stock, and drop 3lbs of wood in a minute.

You dont need to mall ninja an M1 Garand. It is an out of the box battle rifle.
You can not scope an M1 period. None of the after market mounts work.

The odd six will drop anything in north America. If you have ever heard an M1 firing, no sane person would try to charge you.

The one down side is you cant use all commercial ammo in a Grand.

Ammo with a FPS over 2750 can and will damage the operating rod.

In Sept 2001 I bought an M1 Garand for $400, and have rebarreled it, added national match parts. Recoated it, and lost the wood.

I bought crates of mil surp lake city cases, and pull down 152gr 30 cal AP.

Ill bet my life that this rifle will keep me alive when laws will not.

http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/a...llhorn/m1e.jpg

It's weight is what makes it so good. It lessens recoil making follow up shots instant. Nothing can withstand multiple hits of a 30.06. It does have pressure limits. That is not determined strictly by velocity but a combination of bullet weight also. Factory ammo up to 180 grain functioned flawlessy in mine. The only auto loader I found to meet my reliability standard in Alaska's Climate. Original scope mounting where on the side and scout scopes are another option. Why mess with perfection though. The aperature sights are marked out to 600 yards and accurate to that distance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hunter63

IMHO, The Garand would not be my first choice as a hunting/SHTF combo rifle.

They are expensive, hard to come by, heavy, (9,4+ lbs), scope mounts and other accessories are expensive and hard to come by.

http://www.thecmp.org/

You noted the problems with different types of ammo, hunting loads/reloads etc, I have heard, a lot of arguement both ways.
Why put up with that?

I know that there are a lot of guys the swear by them, love them, collect them etc, but would I build a "collection" around them, not me.

If I were to go to a .30 caliber it would be an AR-10 :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-10
or FN FAL. 7.62X51 :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_FAL

---

I agree, but I still have an emotional attachment to the M1 (the first I qualified with).

Tripwire,
If you don't mind me asking, how much do you have into that setup? If I did go this route for a MBR I think that is what I'm looking for. The $900.00 price tag on a rifle that I need to dump more money into to get where I want and buy all new ammo for isn't very appealing. I don't mind paying for quality, but I'm a bit put off by the ammo situation. All the boards I've been on and Garand guru's are saying that a person is playing Russian roulette by using commercial hunting ammo in their rifles. The thought being a slam fire with the bolt out of battery and a round going off half in half out of the chamber due to softer primers.
Can I just order Lake City brass like you were suggesting and use the harder primers? Are you using Lake City because it's mil-spec? Will soft points feed in these, or should I stay FMJ, ballistic tip or solid copper?
Sorry for the barrage of questions. Anyone is also encouraged to chime in on your setups and let me know of issues or likes and dislikes.

While not the "ultimate" rifle. I would feel well "heeled" if I had one. There is good reason why it was and is such a successful and popular rifle. There are a few things that our Uncle Sam did well, and this is one of them. Heavy, ugly, and finicky, my kind of lady :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mountaintrekker

Tripwire,
1) how much do you have into that setup?

2) If I did go this route for a MBR I think that is what I'm looking for. The $900.00 price tag on a rifle that I need to dump more money into to get where I want and buy all new ammo for isn't very appealing.

3)I don't mind paying for quality, but I'm a bit put off by the ammo situation. All the boards I've been on and Garand guru's are saying that a person is playing Russian roulette by using commercial hunting ammo in their rifles. The thought being a slam fire with the bolt out of battery and a round going off half in half out of the chamber due to softer primers.


4)Can I just order Lake City brass like you were suggesting and use the harder primers? Are you using Lake City because it's mil-spec? Will soft points feed in these, or should I stay FMJ, ballistic tip or solid copper?

5)Sorry for the barrage of questions. Anyone is also encouraged to chime in on your setups and let me know of issues or likes and dislikes.

---

1) About $1500, and that was 5-8 years ago prices.

2) You dont need all the fancy stuff I have in mine. I rebuild mine to national match specs. A rack grade will do the job for an MBR.

3) civilian ammo is a crap shoot. Emergency use only. I make all my own.
IF you dont use CCI 34 or CCI 400 primers, you could be in a world of hurt, or not. Ive heard both ways. I bought 10k CCI 34s when they were $129 per 6k box.

4) you can waste all kind of money on ammo. The M1 was designed to eat 152gr flat base M2 ball ammo. I tired to get as close to that spec as possible. I shoot car batteries standing free hand at 300 yards.

You can still buy 30-40 year old mil surp ammo, I would not trust my life to it. There is only one guy I know who sells lake city brass, its 4 times what it was 5-6 years ago.

5) Thats why we are here, to pass on info to those who need it.

If I were gearing up today. I would go with a M1a,20 mags, and as much 308 ammo as I could find. Its gonna cost you up the whazoo to do anything with an M1. Unless you leave it stock (cept stock) and bought mil spec ammo.

What about the M1A? It's not ought six but doesn't it have all the pluses with few of the minuses compared to the Garand? .308 is a pretty good round.

Thought these 2 setups might help you. Ready to go packages. Both packages start around a $1000.

Remington (My favorite choice .308 or 300Winmag)
http://www.snipercentral.com/rementrypack.phtml

Howa
http://www.snipercentral.com/entrypackage.htm

The M1a is what the M1 Garand turned into.

They are now big bucks. In the right hands they will shoot right with a Garand.

Wrap it in plastic, and you have a great MBR.

Im an 30-06 shooter, have been for over 4 decades.

Old habits are hard to break:smash:

That's why I thought it might be a better choice. Sort of Garand version 2.

The .308 is a great round, don't get me wrong. I've owned half a dozen or so and just got done selling all of them off the past year or so. My reasoning is this... I can't load up 180gr plus bullets without issues. I need one large rifle round that will be adaquate up here for all things. I have chosen the 30.06 for it's ability to use up to 220gr bullets and it's availabilty, price, loading options etc. I'm looking at the possibility of a MBR in the same caliber. If not, I have several precision rifles in 30.06 that will be just fine for long range work.
I dumped the .308 as it is just one more caliber I had hanging around that comes close to the 06 but isn't it. I don't need hundreds of pieces of brass, loaded ammo etc. etc. for a rifle that has a narrow niche for me. I'm trying to get my "survival battery" lean and mean with doubles of each. Just like multi-use items in our survival kits, all of my firearms must be able to pull double duty with the game selection in my region. Well, most of them anyway!
If I only have to buy 2 calibers of rifle brass, I can buy lots and be really set as opposed to several calibers and marginal stock of components. Make sense?

I load for 110, 150, 152, 178, and 208
The latter two being A-Max. You dont need anything bigger.

Another reason I use 30-06 brass is, you can make all kinds of rounds from it.
Some of my brass has been made into 8mm-06AI, 308, and even 7.92x57 (8 mm)

In a Garand you only want to use 150-165gr, nothing bigger.

I am extremely happy with my now 20 year old FN FAL Paratroop. It's a .308 powerhouse. If I were to do it again, I would buy the same thing. I do love the Garands and M1A's though. We had both in the USCG, believe it or not, and when boarding parties were called there was a fight for the M1As... Both are way heavier than the FN...

These days though I find myself going back to my 3030 lever though. Not sure why but I just love the feel of it and it is pretty light on the trail.

And if I were in a situation where I had to grab one long gun and run, it would be my Rem 870. It's versatility cannot be beat.

I say buy the garand if you really want it. it's a fine long arm and really fun to shoot. And, You know what the drawbacks are already.

I was a big FAL fan for awhile, I had a couple different configurations from DSA and then I started having problems with them. I'm sure there are thousands out there running without a hitch, but mine wound up being a costly nightmare and I haven't gone back since.
There was a really nice 30.06 AR type rifle made by COBB back in 2006 for the 100th anniversary of the 30.06 cartridge and I'd love to get my hands on one, but alas they were bought out by Bushmaster in 2007 and I haven't seen anything in that caliber since. I'll keep checking around for these for sale as they take the BAR mags and are sweet shooting rifles, or at least that's what the owners are saying. I think they are around $2000.00 plus if you can find one. <sigh>
That type of rifle would be able to handle commercial hunting loads and regular primers. Now I need to save my pennies and time it right. :)

CMP is your best bet for a true American classic that has been completely disasembled/inspected/headspaced/etc. They offer various greads and nonoe are junk.

$600 for a Service Grade M1 is by no means expensive (compared to many other centerfire rifles on the market).

As for 30-40 year old M2 ball sealed in spam cans I would DEFINITELY trust my life to the stuff (both the Greek HXP and Lake City).

9.5 pounds empty is a handful for packing through the boonies but remember, they are not making them anymore.

Springfield Armory (not the original SA that made them for Uncle Sam) attempted to recreate a modern version (30-06 and .308) with less than stellar results.

As for ammo prices, bulk GI M2 ball is still a bargain at $0.48-0.50 per round.

Adjustable gas plugs allow for modern commercial ammo with no ill effects.

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