I want to try Willow for a primitive fire. What are the recommendations on fire board?
Dried out wood?
Fire drill?
Anyway, general advise.
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I want to try Willow for a primitive fire. What are the recommendations on fire board?
Dried out wood?
Fire drill?
Anyway, general advise.
DRY DRY DRY wood, both the spindle and hearth. I use willow for hearth with yucca spindle, just because they are so abundant around here. If you can find dead limbs still on the trees, that's your best bet.
whittle it down to about 1/2" thick for hearth. I like mine to be a little thicker, but not much.
Also you might want to pick up "Wildfire: Fire Making Art" by Russell Cutts. It lists lots of plants (east coast) that can be used for either / or. Quite an entertaining read also.
with the bow drill, posture and breath are far more important than any of the other factors. You can't work it properly sitting on your butt, or even resting on one foot. I don't even think about making fire when I'm doing it. I just focus on breathing, and think about marshmallows, or tenderloins.. anything to keep me breathing. You really don't want to hold your breath for the 2 minutes it'll take to pop an ember out. You'll be too winded to blow the ember into your tindle. I know from experience.
Last tip for now.. start slow. you gotta preheat the end of the spindle and the divot in the hearth. Once they start grinding into dust, speed up a little and maintain that speed / rythm. you'll start to see smoke, DONT STOP! the smoke will turn from grey, to yellow-ish. once I get grey smoke, I usually blow a few breaths down on the hearth (spinning all the while) and get yellow smoke. Yellow is the indication that something is burning, meaning you have your ember.
Have a go at it, and if you run into trouble, feel free to ask. I'll do all I can to help you out. I just want to see a picture of your face when you blow your first friction fire into life. Oh Happy Day!
A few construction details that work for me. I just use dry fairly hard wood. I look for a branch that has a natural bend to it and reasonably heavy. about and inch thick so I can put some muscle into it. I tie cordage loose enough to wrap spindle and sqeeze with fingers to get right tension on spindle.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/g...o/IMG_0508.jpg
The spindle is pointed on one end and round on the fire end. Rounded end will creat more friction and pointed end will spin easy. The straiter the better.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/g...o/IMG_0510.jpg
I cut angles like 2 V's coming together so embers drop directly on my tinder.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/g...o/IMG_0511.jpg
Thanks for the pic's, bow drill is one top of my list of things to concentrate on.
My 2 cents. Kneel on right knee,hold fire board with left foot, brace left arm against left leg.(oppistite if a lefty of course)
Grease socket end of spindle by running throuh hair, behind ears or along nose (this is important)
Many times I've had the spinlde ride the notch off the board. So I point both ends of spidle , drill a starter hole in fire board with knife and burn a good hole for the spindle to stay in before I cut the notch.
Willow should work fine, good luck!
YCC, can you tell me more about the yucca plant you use. I know yucca as a root that goes in chicken soup of as a potato like side dish.
I googled it and it looks like we call the plant down here Spanish bayonet.
Where do you find it and why do you feel it is better as a spindle for you? How do you harvest the plant?
Got lots of smoke and sawdust with the willow. No coal.
I'll try again tomorrow.
I have never had any luck with this method of fire starting, I guess ill just have to keep trying.
Sorry for the delay Batch. I guess I missed the post.
At the end of the flowering season of the yucca, the flower stalk dies and dries. If you grab it about halfway down and bend it over it will snap right off at the bottom, near the plant. If it doesn't, you might need to reach carefully down near the top of the plant with the other hand and bend it over to get it to snap off. You needn't harvest the whole plant, just the dead flower stalk. It will eventually drop it off on it's own, so you may find one on the ground nearby an old stand.
Find a nice straight piece a little shorter than your shin, probably 14" is enough, depending on your height. bevel one end to fit your socket, and the other for the hearth. adjust your bowstring length for the wrap and have a go at it.
I rarely harvest the whole plant. Getting the root will kill the whole plant, so unless you intend to use it all for cordage, soapmaking, and firemaking, it's better to leave it and just remove the flower stalk and as many leaves as you think you'll need. Each plant is a valuable resource and should be respected.
I have eaten the flower petals, they are a little bitter, but good on a salad.
Down here it goes by many names: Spanish Bayonet, Beargrass, Soaproot, Adam's Needle, those are the ones on the top of my head. There are several species and I'm not sure about all the differences, but they all have the flower stalks and leaves and soapy roots.
The plant with dead flower stalk ready for harvest
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...0306001254.jpg
As stated above, I bent it over and it snapped right off. to give you an idea how much material you get from 1 plant, I'm 6' tall.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...0306001255.jpg
Ok, is it around the time for the stalk to be harvested. I have been keeping my eyes open for that plant.
Also I think my spindle might be too small. I only made it about ten inches and was running the bow real close to the ground. So that it was abrading my cord. I set the board up on my cooler to stop that and I just put the notch to close to the edge of the cooler and the board broke.
I kinda think I have to get my pressure on the spindle right.
My shin is about 16" so if that is a rule of thumb then I am almost half the size it should be.
I appreciate the help.
BTW, I had no idea where to find willow. All I could hear was "Walking After Midnight" lyrics in my head and picture a big ole weeping willow tree.
Come to find out it is one of the most common trees in the Everglades. Hell it is everywhere down here.
This head is mostly Coastal Plain Willow and Giant Leather Ferns. Its a tree island and so it sort of floats and you can feel the ground give when you step.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...s/P3090289.jpg
I don't know if you can see the slight hump on the horizon of this picture. That is the willow head that in the first picture. After I identified it I realized I had walked past a bunch of trees. Now it is every where. Here it is on the eastern edge of the Glades.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...P3090286-1.jpg
This weekend went to where I hunt most of the time. I always knew palm trees, pine trees, oak trees and cypress trees. But, we walk around willow all the time. Just never knew it! :blushing:
Edited this is the picture I meant to add. That is my brother hacking ferns into the head.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...s/P3250316.jpg
I like my spindle to be about as big around as my thumb. Make sure you are using something to catch the dustpile.. that is where you'll find your ember, and you won't find it until the notch in your hearth is filled with dust. The dust is like GOLD to a firemaker. I like to use a nice dead leaf or scrap of paper.. anything that will burn and not lose my dust or ember. If you must transfer the dustpile, make sure you drop it ONTO something that will hold it together. Loose grass will lose your dust AND ember and after all that work, you certainly don't want to lose your ember and dust in your tindle.
It doesn't take a lot of pressure. too much will stop it spinning, and not enough will let it pop out. you have to have just enough to keep it going. When I start to see smoke, I increase pressure just a little and start blowing down on the dustpile gently. The smoke will change color. depending on how well you can see it, it will turn yellowish. I like my spindle to be long enough that my hand is braced against my leg just below my knee.. of course it gets shorter the more I use it, and I'm proficient enough now to use a 6" spindle as easily as a 12" one.
I have not tried weeping willow, only black (as far as willow goes). The picture above was taken at the beginning of this month (March). I can walk 100 yards from my house right now to a stand of yuccas and there must be at least 10 dead stalks waiting to be picked up off the ground. I looked at them yesterday as I drove by and 10 were standing a month ago, now only 2 still stand. It's definately a good time of year to pick them, but I've found them almost year round, either from the previous years flowering or from an alternate flowering (spring flowers- harvest stalks in fall, and vice versa)
In the first picture, It's hard to tell, but from here it looks an aweful lot like black willow trees. The leaves will tell you for sure and the limbs don't droop like it's weeping kin. Look around for dead limbs either still attached or on the ground. It needs to be DEAD DEAD and DRY.
I hold my bow low on the spindle, so that the string rides barely above my foot. usually the far end will tap the ground as I work it. Don't forget you can take up some of the slack with your fingers instead of adjusting the length of the string.
It sounds really complicated and I know it's frustrating in the beginning, but when you get the hang of it, you'll be surprised what you can twirl a fire with. I'm not all that far from the everglades and a lot of the same plants and trees are just out my back door too.
Maybe it's time for me to take some step-by-step pics of firemaking with yucca and willow, or even nandina and poplar. I'll have to enlist the help of my shutterbug sweetheart :D I have some crepe myrtle I'm dying to try!
I hope that helps. You'll get the hang of it if you keep trying. Took me a while to figure out the mechanics of the process, but now, it's almost third nature. I can do it while thinking about something completely different... like what I'm gonna cook with the fire. YUM!
The most important thing to remember while working the bow is BREATHE!
ember in the dustpile. Didn't have anyone to work the camera while I was doing it, but this is what it looks like when you have an ember in your dust.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...0424092048.jpg
Yeah, the tips help.
Probably a nearly identical plant. But, black willow doesn't occur down here. We have salix caroliniana, which is called both Carolina Willow and Coastal-plain Willow.
I was getting plenty of dust. So it is just a matter of me practicing. BTW, as obvious as it might seem, it never occured to me to tie a little loose and take up the temsion with my finger! Thanks!
I meant to include this:
Location
Salix nigra occurs naturally from New Brunswick west to Minnesota and thence southward to Georgia and northern Florida. Black willow grows in wetlands and along stream banks and the shores of ponds and lakes. It frequently colonizes disturbed sites, and often is very abundant where it occurs. The related Carolina willow (S. caroliniana) has a more southern distribution, ranging from Maryland west to Indiana and south to Texas, throughout Florida, and in Cuba.
I went fishing yesterday evening, and as we were passing through the slough, I took some pics of all the black willow. I'll get them uploaded sometime today. It grows in wet areas everywhere around here.
I put up a fire-bow tute in the primitive section, check it out. Lots of pics, so might take a few minutes to load it up. Maybe it'll help.
Also, I'd be happy to send you some yucca stalk if you'd like to try it. PM me your addy and I'll get it out to you ASAP. Of course, you should be able to find some around you, Yucca grows everywhere across the south. I've gotta get some pics uploaded.
It has been years since I used a bow and drill for fire making. I used to do it at all our camp outs with the scouts. About 20years ago I had a scout troop we did a lot of winter camping and back country trekking. I would always start a fire with out matches to show it could be done. The boys got a lot of experience and learned a lot and we were never cold even at 40 or 50 below but the parents would not let their boys go out when it was that cold but the boys were ready to go and prepared for it. We never had a accident when I was with them they were very careful and followed directions. I wonder what some of them are doing now.
Boy Scouts In Alaska was one hell of an experience. I was one 50 years ago and we had an annual week long outing in January called the "Freezeroo". Were they still doing that 20 years ago?Quote:
Originally Posted by 264Win
In the end the coal needed more tending. I rushed it to the tinder bundle.
I got a promotion at work and haven't had as much time as I previously had to mess around with this. After hours on the computer working on databases I decided to take a break and set a beer down on the table and broke out the willow. I set a piece of paper beneath it and when I smoked right I transferred the coal and nothing. Even having rubbed the shift out of the grass and palm tinder.
The next time I propagated the pile of dust with the coal. Just a pin coal on the paper let to sit and very gently blew upon eventually led to a very good coal that was burning through the paper. I transferred it to the tinder bundle and blew.
The coal wasn't falling apart like before and the tinder bundle was more fluffed up . But, more densely packed than before. I was focused on the coal. Then I noticed smoke coming off of the other side and knew I was good. Fire!
Unbelievable! Glad i didn't give up! One of the biggest grins I ever had!
Ha Ha! Good for you Batch! Knew you could do it!
Ricks gonna be pi**ed though,...you know this don't you. LOL!
Well done Batch.
Thanks guys and thanks for the help.
Oh Yeah? Well....:crying:
Congrats!
Congratulations!
I know the feeling you got when you held the fire in your hands. It's hard to describe that feeling. I smile every time I make friction fire, you just can't help it!
Well done Batch! Way to go!
Now that you have a combination that works, practice with that until the mechanics become second nature and you can do it properly without thinking about it. Once you've mastered the posture and workings, you can experiment with any wood you come across.
Keep it up and congrats one more time. It's a great feeling!!
Well, I am not happy with my Sabal palm fluff for fire bow tinder. I ran out of grass and I think that was the real thing. Besides not rushing the coal.
My mom and dad came over tonight for mothers day and my dad was real interested in the kit. So, I made a coal for him. But, I didn't try fire because the difficulty with the tinder I have left. He was really impressed with the ability to make such a coal. After I set it down my brother picked it up and played with the coal in some other type of wheat like grass I picked up in the glades. He got a lot of smoke and I doubt it would take much to make fire with a proper bundle.
I am picking grass up tomorrow in the glades. We don't have that type of grass in our neighborhoods down here anymore. Still some farm fields. But, not like when I was a kid. Manicured lawns don't have dead grass. LOL
I will be posting video shortly...
I have not attempted to learn grasses yet, but there are lots of different kinds that are usable. I like using my lawn clippings after they've dried for a few days. Pompous grass usually has enough dead in it and there are clumps of what grandma calls "rabbit grass" but looks a lot like "border grass" to me but grows wild and it usually has lots of dead in it too.
I'm looking forward to the video.
Great work. And good job introducing others to primitive skills!
If it's available to you Batch, add some pine straw to your birds nest mixture. I usually add a few types of materials to make one. The point you bring up about what is available is a good one. This is why I keep a few 3-4 inch lengths of sisal rope in my kits. Unfray a section and it makes a great birds nest. While not natural, it works if nothing else is available or dry.
Crash, we do have pine needles a plenty. I thought about that on the way home. I blew off stopping this afternoon cause I had field guys calling for all kinds of problems today. So far Mondays are Garfield like in my new job. LOL
Lots of tinder combinations to try. Is the sisal rope the same as the jute rope?
Jute and sisal are similar. Sisal is made (I think) from agave fibers and jute uses a few different fibers. Next time you're in Home Depot check out the section with ropes and wires. The sisal (at least at this end of the state) is sold in 50' pre-packaged lengths. The jute is on the larger spools.Quote:
Originally Posted by Batch
I will. Jute has been recommended so much I almost have to try it.Quote:
Originally Posted by crashdive123
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tamecurvetapecorrectiontappingchucktaskreasoningtechnicalgradetelangiectaticlipomatelescopicdampertemperateclimatetemperedmeasuretenementbuildingtuchkasultramaficrockultraviolettesting