In the event of Societal Upheaval (i.e., "Stuff" HTF) - the Feral Pet Problem

Perhaps this is not "thread worthy" but it did get me thinking.

In the event of some kind of societal upheaval - economic collapse, extreme natural disaster, pandemic disease, pervading world war, and as a Pastor I think of the Rapture of the Church (not trying to start a relgious discussion, this is just an example) - it seems to me that there will be a massive number of feral house pets that are either orphaned or abandoned. Feral cats are already having a very serious environmental impact right now, but in one of the situations I listed above, there may be billions of feral animals roaming the world.

Can you imagine the packs of feral dogs terrorizing the popultation or colonies of feral cats wiping out the small game? Alos, if the "stuff" really hits the fan, I imagine it won't take long until Fido and Whiskers start looking like good sources of protein for the survivors.

SO, I realize that this is a fairly goofy topic, but for those who are preparing for the worst case scenario, it would be unwise to leave the impact of feral house pets out of the equation.

Anybody else ever considered this?

Not me. My wife's dog, Pot Roast, will be taken care of.

Meats MEAT.......cat meat is goooder than no-meat. We don't have any feral cats around here, the Eagles eat them. They eat the small dogs also.

I do think your theory is valid. It seems to be a rather predominant theme in the "Life After People" shows. As dogs begin to pack together I think they'll offer a threat to people as well. We'll sort of be on each other's menu.

The feral cat population is only a problem in areas where people feed them and provide them with some kind of shelter. Around here, the coyotes eat them. They also eat house pets if you leave them out at night and they don't have the sense to run from a 'dog'.

Human sustained feral cat populations have become a hot topic. The spay/neuter/release programs for feral cats don't hardly make a dent in that population and where eradication efforts or legislation against feeding them has been tried there's always been a huge groundswell of support, for the cats.

I love cats. Have 2 adopted strays now. But I hate seeing the conditions some of the overpopulated ferals live in.

Like all things, given time, they will balance. Especially without human interference.

Dogs on the other hand, will come down to the survivor types, those already similar to the wild canines out there. They will indeed be a threat. While I was visiting in Egypt you could see the packs of feral dogs outside the small city limits where my parents were staying and you did not want to be seen by them if you were broke down out on the road at night where they were active. The military would come through once in a while and use them for target practice. Is that a bad thing?

PTW, I think your point is very valid. I've lived on reservations up north where it's not safe to go out alone at night because of wild dog packs and they're pretty da## smart when it comes to people trying to eradicate them. One gunshot and an entire pack can disappear faster than any coyote or wolf pack I've ever seen. There's, unfortunately, quite a few documented cases of small children being killed and eaten by them. There's some places where the community will put bounties on them but then you have to get them away from the community to shoot them for firearms safety sake. It's one of the rare instances where I approve of shooting an animal for other than food. And the sad part is it's because the dogs have been abandoned and starvation has made them the way they are. They sure can't compete with the wolves in terms of hunting game.

A good 12 gauge will come in handy to control that raucous pack of beasts!

Let 'em know you mean business and they will get the message. Dogs aren't stupid. They are smart enough to know that a raised hand means they will get smacked and a raised gun means they will get dead, and it won't take long for them to figure that out.

I can't imagine what a vicious pack of felines would look like though. Charging dogs is one thing, but cats? I would almost look forward to that encounter. I think deep down everyone at one time has wanted to take out a cat with a baseball bat. You could have your chance without any of the guilt! :innocent:

Wisconsin had a bill in state congress a couple of years ago, to allow the shooting of feral cats.
Was voted down of course, so mostly every body practices SSS.

I really hesitated to even comment on this, after the beat down involving helicopter hunting of feral pigs.

Fact remains that there is a problem even now, (though it might not be where you live)which in the event of a SHTF scenario, would increase and expand.

After thinking about it, I think dogs would be pretty easy to irradicate from a area. You'd have to do it in the first couple of years though, while they still have some of the instinct to not fear certain things. You could easily bait them with garbage and have a whole pack show up. You could set up all kind of traps or funnel them into a building or some other area where you could shoot them one by one. Dogs are smart, but nothing is smarter than a human and we could get it over on them pretty easy just by us knowing their instincts. A coyote on the other hand would never let himself go into a building not knowing he has a sure escape route.

The WI DNR has had organized "dog hunts" in the past, for running deer.

A lot that were "terminated" had collars, and apparently uncaring owners.

I don't know if a dog is smart enough to equate gun=dead. My folks were in Egypt for 5 years (government contract). The military had to come through about every 3 to 6 months for the dog problem. Never underestimate what a hungry canine will do. Or how stupid it will get.

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Originally Posted by RichJ

.. . They are smart enough to know that a raised hand means they will get smacked and a raised gun means they will get dead, and it won't take long for them to figure that out.

Charging dogs is one thing, but cats? I would almost look forward to that encounter. :innocent:

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The dogs I was referring to, a raised hand would mean a lost arm, if you think they're going to charge you straight on, that kind of naivete will get you killed. They will circle you. Be happy that the first shot or two will scare most of them away because if you're facing a big pack you're not going to be able to circle and shoot as fast as they're going to keep moving in. As far as looking forward to an encounter, I would never look forward to an encounter with anything that wants to attack me. I don't care what it is

Hummm,
Has anyone seen the "Book of Eli"?
The opening scene is kind of what I picture happening.

Sorry, for the vague reference. We just saw it this week, and it fits here.
I can't explain anymore for those of you yet to see it.

Maybe this is thread-worthy after all.

A pack of feral dogs can really be a danger. When I was on mission in Iquitos, Peru, the city was full of feral dogs. They were accustomed enough to people that they would not attack anyone by day, but they definitely did not want to be messed with either. After years of cross-breeding, the feral dogs there did not look like any breed I have ever seen before. They were shaped like a greyhound, lean and lanky. They had long muzzles and far more developed canine teeth. Most of them were hairless. Very creepy looking. I had one get irate with me for no apparent reason. Thankfully this was during the day and lots of people were around.

I don't think feral cats pose any direct threat to humans, but they do carry disease, and can really decimate the small game population, which would be a food source for humans.

Dogs I like, cats ... I tolerate. I would not be enthusiastic about killing either, but if they are a threat to my family, they would have to be dealt with.

Hey that is why I'm putting together a whole chapter in my book devoted to recipes for dog, cat, oppossum, raccoon, etc. Most people have never eaten nor prepared these kinds of critters, so I think it is good information to know.
Remember: dog young, cat old.

I'm in the shoot them camp on this one. Anyone who has seen what a pet pooch can do to a flock of sheep on it's own, let alone in a pack, if I was able, I'd eradicate. Cats too for that matter. I regard feral pets as a nuisance and dangerous.

I'm much more concerned about the Feral People Problem. Harder to deal with.

But just as tasty!:blushing:

cats wont wipe out small game. everything they eat breeds like crazy and many predators that eat small game will be praying on the cats as well which means they will be praying a little less on small game since cats will make up a percentage of there diet that once was filled only by native small game. also the native predators are just as good at hunting as cats so the pray are already adapted to deal with cats hunting abilities and predators wont have competition beyond their own abilities. also cats dont deal well with the cold and snow up north and their population wouldn't grow that big. they would be weak and prayed on during the winter.

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Originally Posted by SARKY

Hey that is why I'm putting together a whole chapter in my book devoted to recipes for dog, cat, oppossum, raccoon, etc. Most people have never eaten nor prepared these kinds of critters, so I think it is good information to know.
Remember: dog young, cat old.

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Skip the possum, they are good for grease to fry the other stuff. I'm like most people around here, shot a few dogs running in packs, shot all cats I found in the woods, rather have the young rabbits & birds than cats.:innocent:

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Originally Posted by mcgyver

But just as tasty!:blushing:

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Bon Apetit, I don't believe I'll have any, thank you just the same.

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Originally Posted by owl_girl

cats wont wipe out small game. everything they eat breeds like crazy and many predators that eat small game will be praying on the cats as well which means they will be praying a little less on small game since cats will make up a percentage of there diet that once was filled only by native small game. also the native predators are just as good at hunting as cats so the pray are already adapted to deal with cats hunting abilities and predators wont have competition beyond their own abilities. also cats dont deal well with the cold and snow up north and their population wouldn't grow that big. they would be weak and prayed on during the winter.

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Before Bobcat was permanently grounded, he was a terror (hence why he was grounded) A typical week could consist of several songbirds, 4 or 5 mice/voles and at least one rabbit. That doesn't include the robbed out nests in the breeding season, hen game birds he'd taken off their nests and eggs(yes eggs!) A cat is one of the most destructive predators. And I doubt cold weather would stop them either. Might reduce their breeding cycle to the warmer months, but that's about it.

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Originally Posted by trax

The dogs I was referring to, a raised hand would mean a lost arm, if you think they're going to charge you straight on, that kind of naivete will get you killed.

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No, I don't think what I wrote came across as what I intended. What I mean is that dogs are smart enough to be trained with hand signals and understand completely what you want it to do just by signaling. I can raise my hand to my dog and he immediately knows to stop what he's doing or else he's going to get smacked. If dogs can learn that, I would think after seeing a few of their buddies get shot, a dog will quickly associate cirtain postures (an aimed gun) with something bad.

I don't think they would charge as a pack but rather circle you the way you say. When they see an opportunity, one will break the circle and charge in.

Feral dogs are a lot smarter than we often give them credit for. In an urban environment...

1. They ride the subway to extend their territory.
2. They learn which humans are most likely to drop their food when startled. They sneak up behind them and bark, then grab the food.
3. They've learn how to use crosswalks and cross WITH the light.
4. They instinctively know which humans appear most likely to harm them and hide while coming out to those they think will feed them.
5. They've become so good at acquiring food that they often eat only the best food leaving other food untouched.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121123197068805001.html

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Originally Posted by Winnie

And I doubt cold weather would stop them either. Might reduce their breeding cycle to the warmer months, but that's about it.

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in MN the cold weather killed them and coyotes hunted them. i didnt see many cats away from where people were supporting them. they would come to our house desperately looking for food, they were so skinny. they would eat the suit cakes for the birds. they were to scared to come near. and sometimes they would die just from cold. i think cars are a bigger threat to small game.

@Rick: Yeah, some of that stuff you posted I saw a thing on tv about a few years ago, (been a few years since I watched tv) in my earlier posts I wasn't even thinking about them in an urban environment which would be the primary concern for most here.

@RichJ: the dogs I was thinking of have had no training, but like I said in my earlier post, they hear one shot and the entire pack disappears. My advice for anyone dealing with a pack of feral dogs, be about 75 yards away with a scoped .22-250 or .223. If you can get them near food ( a gut pile works well!) you can pop two or three before the pack scatters. Again, maybe not such good advice for an urban setting.

Cats around here are getting pretty survival savvy.....yeah, it's wool.

http://www.animalstars.com/as_image/ap_hoti_red_lg.jpg

Some are pretty highly organized.

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dai...mokingcats.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j8.../SniperCat.jpg

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Originally Posted by trax

@RichJ: the dogs I was thinking of have had no training...

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No, your still not getting what I mean. Of course they will not have had hand signal training. I mean if they (dogs in general) are smart enough to be trained that way, they are smart enough to pick up on certain things and quickly learn from it.

I`m thinking this will vary depending where you live.

IE: The city can be a HUGE problem but rural, especially with freezing winters I think will be much less of an issue.

I think there will be an initial spike in feral pets and problems associated but it will settle down after the food chain adjusts for it, and other game (and humans) start making their meals out of rover.

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Originally Posted by RichJ

No, your still not getting what I mean. Of course they will not have had hand signal training. I mean if they (dogs in general) are smart enough to be trained that way, they are smart enough to pick up on certain things and quickly learn from it.

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I'm agreeing with you!!!

Some dogs are slow learners.

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Originally Posted by trax

I'm agreeing with you!!!

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Ok. :thumbup:

I see where you're coming from OG. It's not just the U.S these things may happen in. I'm thinking of any region. I lived in Scotland for some years, Feral cats thrive in the Highlands. They are the top mammal predator there, along with the Scottish Wildcat (which they interbreed with) like I said, weather conditions only keeps the breeding season to the warmer months. Perhaps this is where the problem arises, you've got bigger predators in the U.S. These cats have had years to adapt to the terrain they live in, as I've no doubt many feral dog packs have too. That's the way I look at things anyhoo.

Even in WWII they resorted to horse meat (horse...considered one of the most noble of animals), in a pinch...I think we humans will do what we need to do in those survival situations. Even those who are admittedly against eating horse, squirrel, bugs, or household pets...will have a rather hard time getting past their or their child's hunger pains and choose. I can guarantee, the household animal will NOT win out. Hunger is a terrible thing. It will make you do many things you never thought you would ever do, even roast up your beloved Fido.

For feral dogs and cats, it would just be survival of the fittest. Some of them would die off pretty quick or get killed by humans. But a few always will get by and not get trapped or shot. Dogs are incredibly smart animals...anyone who thinks different is a damned fool. Dogs are much smarter than wolves, coyotes or HUMANS.

Dogs have trained humans...not the other way around....they just have most of us fooled. They act goofy and dumb, but while we humans are treating them like our children, and we're out working to buy them food, toys, vet care, etc...they are sleeping on our sofa or bed, poopin on our floors (which we will pick-up) and chewing on our priced possessions. I have seen many people treat dogs like kings...but I've rarely seen a dog treat a human like one.

Feral cats are already a problem down here. They definitely impact wildlife in areas they are concentrated.

For me all mammals make the menu. No hang ups there.

As for being attacked ny dogs or cats for that matter. Dogs are much better equipped to tear you arse up. Use a weapon and be majorly aggressive.

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Originally Posted by Jason_Montana

. I have seen many people treat dogs like kings...but I've rarely seen a dog treat a human like one.

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Dogs have saved many a human life.
To me that's more important than being treated like a king. That's what a girlfriend's for.:sneaky2: ('til you marry her)

As long as we're talking...hope y'all are prepared to kick it up a notch:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguay...rce_Flight_571

They are dead and can save a life. Eat...

Nope. I can honestly say that I would starve before I would cannibalize. Can't do it and can't feed it to my child...
I think that's in the same category as "brian", to me. Don't ask me to eat a brain of ANYTHING. I've tried, and couldn't do it. To me, it's like eating someone's soul...