So, It's come to this...

My Daughter attended a concert in Chicago (House of Blues). The next day, she conveyed a story to me that has the old patriot in me kind of stirred up.

It’s a long drive from here to there, so she bought the tickets online.

When she and her girlfriend arrived, this is what entry involved.
The customers were separated into two lines one male and one female. They were then subjected to full body patdown searches. Were told to turn out their pockets. Purses were emptied and contents searched. She observed that pocket knives were confiscated and “disposed of”.

I did some checking on search and seizure laws. Surprise! They only apply to Law enforcement or Government agents. Private security have no restrictions or need for probable cause.
Now I suppose, she could have refused to submit to a search and asked for a ticket refund. But I’ll bet the loss of privacy was agreed to in fine print when buying the tickets.

I’m afraid the bad guys won. We are now guilty until proven innocent.
:cursing:

While I agree that it is sad and and I do not agree with the whole pat down, I can see their logic. I mean if, God forbid, your daughter was hurt there by some dumba$$ then you would be looking for answers from the "so called" security. So I guess what I'm trying to say is....all these things that have pushed our liberties to the side were done for a reason. People as a whole have brought this on themselves, and good people like you, your daughter, etc have to suffer.

I am sorry to hear a fellow Veteran have that opinion.
You are entitled! We fought for that right.
I just cannot come to accept being treated as a suspect for for a possible future crime.
Just where does it stop?
Are all free men and women assumed to be a prospective criminal?
That is not really how I would define freedom. But then again, I still trust a handshake agreement, and someones word.
I guess I'm becoming obsolete.

I'm leaning towards your thinking on this McGyver. I got questioned by a cop a while back and he determined that I wasn't doing anything wrong (someone reported that I was walking down the center line on a highway in the dark of night. I'm just not that adventurous) Anyway, he kept insisting on seeing my identification after having determined that there was no wrong-doing. I asked why he need to see my ID's since there was nothing going on

Policeman: Just for our records, sir

Me: Oh, so you guys keep records of people that aren't doing anything wrong? That's good to know. Isn't that the function of a police state?

I never showed him my id.

It stops when the lawyers stop. It stops when criminals don't have more rights than us. It stops when our enemy can't blend in because profiling and political correctness allow for them to.

Sucks...but in the end I would rather sit through a little more security in the airport and large functions than to risk getting blown up because some terrorist saw it as a good opportunity to blow the **** out of a large number of people.

Not trying to be nasty. Just saying. While this country dwells on being PC, we will all suffer in order to be safe (or safer).

Just my 2 cents.

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."

Benjamin Franklin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcgyver

I am sorry to hear a fellow Veteran have that opinion.
You are entitled! We fought for that right.
I just cannot come to accept being treated as a suspect for for a possible future crime.
Just where does it stop?
Are all free men and women assumed to be a prospective criminal?
That is not really how I would define freedom. But then again, I still trust a handshake agreement, and someones word.
I guess I'm becoming obsolete.

---

Well don't get me wrong I don't agree with it. I am just trying to explain why it happens. Personally I hate it and find it very sad that our society has come to this. Sometimes I feel I was born in the wrong time period. Just the other day I was researching "generations" like Baby Boomers, the Greatest Generation, and Generation X, Y and Z. I found that my overall views and tendicies are more in line with the Greatest Generation or those living in the WWII era. I am classified as X/Y but refuse to claim it. People these days seem to think only about themselves and do not care how their actions affect others. Now to a point self preservation is good thing, but having respect for others is equally important and these days respect is almost gone. I too trust in a man's word and like to think people can trust mine, but as you said it is becoming obsolete. It's very sad indeed, but with the way people are these days, I feel that some liberties must be regulated to a point. I hate that it has come to that but if it helps to protect my family than that is a sacrifice that must be made.

I had all this in 1997 when I went to see U2 Wembley Stadium. So I guess it's been going on a while. Funny though, no security check for Aerosmith. But that was in a much smaller venue so maybe that was why. Either that, or Steve Tyler wasn't considered important ebough OR Bono's Huge ego was just beginning to emerge!

Ironically I just recieved this email today.

SCHOOL -- 1958 vs. 2008

Scenario:
Jack goes quail hunting before school,
pulls into school parking lot with shotgun in gun rack.

1958- Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack's shotgun,
goes to his car and gets his shotgun to show Jack.
2008 - School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail
and never sees his truck or gun again. Counsellors called in
for traumatized students and teachers

Scenario:
Johnny and Mark get into a fistfight after school.

1958 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins.
Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up buddies.
2008 - Police called, SWAT team arrives, arrests Johnny and Mark.
Charge them with assault, both expelled even though Johnny started it.

Scenario:
Jeffrey won't be still in class, disrupts other students.

1958 - Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by the Principal.
Returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.
2008 - Jeffrey given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie.
Tested for ADD. School gets extra money from state
because Jeffrey has a disability.

Scenario:
Billy breaks a window in his neighbor's car
and his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt.

1958 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal,
goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.
2008 - Billy's dad is arrested for child abuse.
Billy removed to foster care and joins a gang.
State psychologist tells Billy's sister that she remembers
being abused herself and their dad goes to prison.
Billy's mom has affair with psychologist.
Scenario:
Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin to school.

1958 - Mark shares aspirin with Principal out on the smoking dock.
2008 - Police called, Mark expelled from school for drug violations.
Car searched for drugs and weapons.
Scenario:
Pedro fails high school English.

1958 - Pedro goes to summer school, passes English and goes to college.
2008 - Pedro's cause is taken up by state.
Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that knowing
English as a requirement for graduation is racist.
ACLU files class action lawsuit against state school system
and Pedro's English teacher. English banned from core curriculum.
Pedro given diploma anyway but ends up
mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.
Scenario:
Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from 4th of July,
puts them in a model airplane paint bottle, blows up a red ant bed.

1958 - Ants die..
2008- BATF, Homeland Security, FBI called.
Johnny charged with domestic terrorism, FBI investigates parents,
siblings removed from home, computers confiscated,
Johnny's Dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.

Scenario:
Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee.
He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary hugs him to comfort him.

1958 - In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing.
2008 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job.
She faces 3 years in State Prison.
Johnny undergoes 5 years of therapy.

You know Doug, that's scarily close to the truth!

On my first day back to school the teacher was going over the syllabus and came to the college rules and policies part. He gave an example of a guy pulling out his small pocket knife in class to wipe some crud off it or something.

He told the guy weapons aren't allowed on school property and to leave class and come back when he no longer had the weapon. The guy argued it wasn't a weapon, then he argued it was his right to carry it, he wouldn't leave class and was expelled. He appealed and lost. He wasn't using the knife or intending to use the knife as a weapon or for criminal means. But, he got expelled for standing up for his basic rights, whether written or not. Then again, maybe he wasn't standing up for his rights, but for common sense instead.

The teacher reminded us that all weapons are not alowed and to please remove them. I just sat there pocketknife in pocket. I also wondered what the definition of weapon was. A nail file, clippers, scissors, box cutter??? The term "weapon" isn't defined in the school policies.

Now, I wouldn't be pulling out my knife to wipe off crud, but I could see me pulling it out to open a package, remove a staple, check my pocketwatch, or to get change out of my pocket for the vending machine. So, now I have to be real careful about pulling out my knife on school property regardless of the reason.

Last semester we were all given flash drives and I used my pocketknife to open the plastic case. I had no idea that for doing that I could have been singled out as a bad guy or expelled from school.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trabitha

It stops when the lawyers stop. It stops when criminals don't have more rights than us. It stops when our enemy can't blend in because profiling and political correctness allow for them to.

---

Guess what? Lawyers have been fighting against these abuses for decades, while most of you (the general public) didn't mind intrusive searches and abuses of privacy rights - so long as they were "only" directed at "criminals." While we were fighting these abuses, we warned everyone that the abuses wouldn't stop with "criminals" - who, by the way, have far fewer rights than most people think, because the practical application of law is not what the theory suggests it is - and that it would only be a matter of time before government and business would trample over everyone's individual rights.

Lawyers knew this was coming for decades. Now that it has arrived, will you listen to us? Finally?

The problem lawyers, are the ones writing these laws. Vote them out of office, and they can't do that stupid crap, any more........Right?

The problem really stems from the fact that once again, we blame THINGS for peoples actions.
I was taught in the service that you are the deadliest weapon, everything else is just a tool.
If they every get it figured out that well trained people can kill people with their bare hands, what then?
Do we get handcuffed to our seat pre-flight?

Sorry for the rant, but this really chaps my arz!
This is not about security, it's about control.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by doug1980

Ironically I just recieved this email today.

....

---

So true. and in bold are some good reasons why we should seriously reconsider stopping this nonsense.

SCHOOL -- 1958 vs. 2008

Scenario:
Jack goes quail hunting before school,
pulls into school parking lot with shotgun in gun rack.

1958- Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack's shotgun,
goes to his car and gets his shotgun to show Jack.
Jack grows up to be a responsible contributing member of society

2008 - School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail
and never sees his truck or gun again. Counsellors called in
for traumatized students and teachers
Jack has felony record and gets set back due to jail time. Since no one will hire him due to a felony record, lack of vehicle and lack of skills Jack uses what he learned in jail to make a living as a criminal costing responsible citizens thousands of dollars in lost property and high taxes paying for trauma counseling and taking care of his like in prison.

Scenario:
Johnny and Mark get into a fistfight after school.

1958 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins.
Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up buddies.
Johnny and Mark remain friends, stay in school and later in life work together as part of a team to help cure cancer.

2008 - Police called, SWAT team arrives, arrests Johnny and Mark.
Charge them with assault, both expelled even though Johnny started it. Mark gets pissed, goes to Johnny's house and kills him and his parents, goes to school and kills the teacher, principal and a few innocent bystander students before taking his own life.

Scenario:
Jeffrey won't be still in class, disrupts other students.

1958 - Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by the Principal.
Returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.
jeffrey grows up changes his name to Bear Grylls and gets famous doing a survival show.

2008 - Jeffrey given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie.
Tested for ADD. School gets extra money from state
because Jeffrey has a disability. Our taxes go up and with the school's help Jeffrey learns to play the system and becomes a deadbeat dad living off welfare, SS and medicaid.

Scenario:
Billy breaks a window in his neighbor's car
and his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt.

1958 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal,
goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman. Or he doesn't, but it sure beats the 2008 scenario below.

2008 - Billy's dad is arrested for child abuse.
Billy removed to foster care and joins a gang.
State psychologist tells Billy's sister that she remembers
being abused herself and their dad goes to prison.
Billy's mom has affair with psychologist.

Scenario:
Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin to school.

1958 - Mark shares aspirin with Principal out on the smoking dock.
2008 - Police called, Mark expelled from school for drug violations.
Car searched for drugs and weapons. Again, Mark is denied an education and given a criminal record that may haunt him for life. Mark wanted to be a pharmacist or medical doctor, but instead he figures he'll just deal drugs instead since his record is already screwed.

Scenario:
Pedro fails high school English.

1958 - Pedro goes to summer school, passes English and goes to college.
2008 - Pedro's cause is taken up by state.
Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that knowing
English as a requirement for graduation is racist.
ACLU files class action lawsuit against state school system
and Pedro's English teacher. English banned from core curriculum.
Pedro given diploma anyway but ends up
mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English. Or, our taxes go up and Pedro is given a free ride right thru college, he ends up becoming a pharmacist, not because he's good but because the company has to fill an EOE opening and Pedro fits the bill. He writes the wrong prescription because he can't read. Some innocent old lady dies from a drug interaction.Her family sues the company and our cost of medical care skyrockets.

Scenario:
Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from 4th of July,
puts them in a model airplane paint bottle, blows up a red ant bed.

1958 - Ants die..he blows his fingers off, and later in life his childhood fascination and experimentation with blowing things up gives him the inspiration to invent a new highly efficient and powerful combustion engine. Since the state wouldn't give him disability he used his mind to earn a living

2008- BATF, Homeland Security, FBI called.
Johnny charged with domestic terrorism, FBI investigates parents,
siblings removed from home, computers confiscated,
Johnny's Dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again. Our taxes go up, our rights are taken away, Johnny's dad kills himself and Johnny grows up to be the unabomber.

Scenario:
Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee.
He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary hugs him to comfort him.

1958 - In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing.
2008 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job.
She faces 3 years in State Prison. Mary becomes a sexual predator because she's been brainwashed by the system to think she is one. Johnny undergoes 5 years of therapy, becomes a homosexual, prostitute living on wefare and dies of AIDS. Our taxes go up and people are afraid to take pics of their kids in their birthday suits.


These might be made up scenarios, but if you can something up, put it under pressure and add enough heat it's bound to explode. The worst part is the chain reaction events like these cause. One simple thing ends up affecting thousands of people.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ken

Guess what? Lawyers have been fighting against these abuses for decades, while most of you (the general public) didn't mind intrusive searches and abuses of privacy rights - so long as they were "only" directed at "criminals." While we were fighting these abuses, we warned everyone that the abuses wouldn't stop with "criminals" - who, by the way, have far fewer rights than most people think, because the practical application of law is not what the theory suggests it is - and that it would only be a matter of time before government and business would trample over everyone's individual rights.

Lawyers knew this was coming for decades. Now that it has arrived, will you listen to us? Finally?

---

So I take it that YOU are a lawyer? LOL!
I'm pleased to see that you're obviously a GOOD lawyer with morals. The problem still lies with the lawyers who outnumber your type and still have more pull than "the general public". We can vote as much as we want, but outside of that our only option is to protest. We've seen how well that goes over in the past decade.

Our current situation with "security" is no different than your current situation in the legal field. Too many "bad apples" screwing up the bunch. In the end, there's really very little that can be done. We lighten up on security during a time of war...with an enemy that has infiltrated and will continue to infiltrate our borders, or hold tight until it becomes safer.

I say that while PC reigns, we suck it up and keep those Bastards from killing even MORE civilians on American soil. Sucks, but in the end, our federal government has shown itself completely inept in this matter. Someone has to step up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcgyver

The problem really stems from the fact that once again, we blame THINGS for peoples actions.
I was taught in the service that you are the deadliest weapon, everything else is just a tool.
If they every get it figured out that well trained people can kill people with their bare hands, what then?
Do we get handcuffed to our seat pre-flight?

Sorry for the rant, but this really chaps my arz!
This is not about security, it's about control.

---

I don't know...that bomb strapped to a chest is a pretty deadly "thing". Just sayin'. I can go into a crowd with a chip on my shoulder, kicking and screaming and I can be subdued and do very little harm.
If I have a weapon, not only is it harder for me to be subdued, but that "thing" will hurt or kill before I am.

Things are rather important in this subject, as they are what "the bad guy" uses to carry out his action.

As bad as some hate to hear it, the problem is that not enough hard working, honest people with common sense, get out and vote for the right ones. We are being out numbered, by the give-me crowd.

There is no need yelling at a dumb liberal, for being a dumb liberal. That's like yelling at the sun, for being the sun. We need to be yelling at the ones who think about like we do, but don't bother to vote! They are the ones giving the country away.

I agree 110%, 2D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trabitha

I don't know...that bomb strapped to a chest is a pretty deadly "thing". Just sayin'. I can go into a crowd with a chip on my shoulder, kicking and screaming and I can be subdued and do very little harm.
If I have a weapon, not only is it harder for me to be subdued, but that "thing" will hurt or kill before I am.

Things are rather important in this subject, as they are what "the bad guy" uses to carry out his action.

---

You can give away all your rights and freedoms, and still not be safe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit

The problem lawyers, are the ones writing these laws. Vote them out of office, and they can't do that stupid crap, any more........Right?

---

2dumb, some decades back, most state legislatures were "part time" in nature. A great percentage of legislators were lawyers then. And the laws that were passed usually made sense.

Today, most, if not all, state legislatures are in session practically year-round. Most legislators today are not lawyers. They are "career" politicians who vote in a knee-jerk reaction to every shift in public sentiment that passes by.

For example, isn't "assault and battery" just that? Why do we need to pass countless other similar laws? Assault and battery of a police officer; assault and battery of a firefighter; assault and battery of a person over age 65; assault and battery of a publc servant; assault and battery of a mentally retarded person; assault and battery of a child under 14; assault and battery of a "protected class" of individual.......... Get my point? Assault and battery is the same crime no matter who the victim is. However, our legislators feel a need to pander to public opinion and the press, so we just keep seeing new laws being passed.

Most of the laws - criminal and otherwise - passed over the last few decades are a travesty. We incarcerate more of our citizens (in real numbers) than any other nation in the world and we have the highest percentage of our citizens in prison than does any other nation in the world. And the public response to everything is "lock-em-up and throw away the key." Why?

We tolerate "drunk-driving" roadblocks as a quick-fix to stop drunk drivers and we accept (often non-existent) "confidential informants" as a basis for issuing search warrants. We tolerate routine beatings of criminal suspects by law enforcement officials (yes, a small minority of them) and actually applaud such conduct.

Our prosecutors are more concerned with winning convictions than with doing justice. How is justice served when police and prosecutors withhold evidence and achieve a conviction of an innocent party? Have you ever really gotten angry when you've read one of the countless news stories about a man being freed because he was found innocent of a crime he served decades of his life in jail for after being wrongfully convicted?

Do you believe that a police officer who punches a handcuffed suspect in the face and breaks his nose should go to prison?

Do you understand that there is really a good reason for the so called presumption of innocence?

Do you understand that lawyers are the thin line that separates the people from a government going haywire?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit

As bad as some hate to hear it, the problem is that not enough hard working, honest people with common sense, get out and vote for the right ones. We are being out numbered, by the give-me crowd.

There is no need yelling at a dumb liberal, for being a dumb liberal. That's like yelling at the sun, for being the sun. We need to be yelling at the ones who think about like we do, but don't bother to vote! They are the ones giving the country away.

---

Kinda hard to use that as an answer when no matter who you vote for is bad. And in all honesty they are....all bad. They may be good in your eys but bad in mine or vice versa. The problem is not everyone can agree, period. What one argues is a violation of a civil liberty isn't to another. Like a pat down at a concert is considered a violation of a civil liberty to the OP. But to the Band playing they will argue that it is their right to request a pat down for their own safety. So for every arguement there is and always will be an opposing side. So the question is who is right? Who gets to make the final desicion? Who has the right to say either way?

I'm not about to give up my freedoms or my rights, but I'm not going to stand in the way of the police, military, or security force to do their jobs. Now obviously things would be rather different if WE had behaved differently in the past. But we didn't. Far too many (no matter the numbers because even one is too many), people have done the wrong thing and in doing so, FAR too many of US have paid the price. It is what it is, at this point. What else do we do? Hold our breath each time we go into large groups, fly planes, or government buildings or TRY and make things harder for those who are HERE to hurt us. Not our military...US.

If I go to a concert and don't want to deal with my privacy being invaded, I don't bring a purse. Then all I have to deal with is a stupid little metal detector wand and I'm outta there.

Listen...I KNOW what y'all are getting at, and I totally respect it. The problem is that we are no longer living in that world. Now zip it...I'm not calling you old. :D "That world" was still in play when I was a little girl. Too much has happened, and we aren't as safe as we once were. Hold on to your freedoms by all means...but adjust to the way the world is today. Todays world SUCKS and her people are mean.

Years ago I was "searched" by a metal detector weilding "security guard" at the Superdome. I was off duty and carrying a pocket knife. I left my weapon in the car for the sole intent of not being slowed down by the "security officers". When my pocket knife set off his wand he smugly ordered me to step to the side of the line where a more thorough search could be done. I stepped to the side of the line without question. He then waved his wand over the "suspicious" area again and boldly ordered me to empty my pockets, which I did. Upon seeing the pocket knife he attempted to grab it from the tray. I was waiting for this little stunt and quickly snached it away and placed it back into my pocket safely away from his "confiscation". In an attempt to intimidate and embarrass me, he barked, "If you do not turn it over I will take it from you and have you arrested". I promptly advised him that If he touched my person there would be no need to call the police and that he would be arrested for Simple Battery and Attempted Theft after his short stay at Charity Hospital. Upon pulling out my badge he quickly understood fully what I meant and said that I still could not pass his check point. I ignored his "request" and walked on past w/o incident, leaving him with a wide open mouth of disbelief. Apparently he was unaware that I could have lawfully carried my weapon inside much less my pocket knife but chose not to out of fear of alarming people in line when it was discovered. The moral of the story is that "security guards" will sometimes attempt to abuse their authority and power without regard for even a policeman much less a citizen. I realize that some police officers have been known to do the same. I am equally infuriated by their actions. I am not saying that my right to carry my pocket knife or weapon outweighs a citizen's. What I am saying is that some "security guards" are unaware of their "lawful parameters" and often overstep them out of ignorance or spite. You have to be careful with some of these guys. I believe it should be law that a "security officer" has to have some sort of minimal legal training and be licensed before working in that field of work. Sometimes their actions are a law suit waiting to happen. Stay safe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by doug1980

Kinda hard to use that as an answer when no matter who you vote for is bad. And in all honesty they are....all bad.

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Then as a people, you have to pick the lesser of two evils. Then in the next election, you pick the lesser of those two evils. Then when people vote in landslides, a certain way, the politicians start acting that way. Politicians will do what ever gets them elected.

The problem is when 3 people think one way and 7 think another way, but only 2 of those 7 vote. Guess who wins.

...and it really ticks me off, when the 5 that didn't vote, whine about not being able to make a difference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trabitha

I'm not about to give up my freedoms or my rights, but I'm not going to stand in the way of the police, military, or security force to do their jobs. Now obviously things would be rather different if WE had behaved differently in the past. But we didn't. Far too many (no matter the numbers because even one is too many), people have done the wrong thing and in doing so, FAR too many of US have paid the price. It is what it is, at this point. What else do we do? Hold our breath each time we go into large groups, fly planes, or government buildings or TRY and make things harder for those who are HERE to hurt us. Not our military...US.

If I go to a concert and don't want to deal with my privacy being invaded, I don't bring a purse. Then all I have to deal with is a stupid little metal detector wand and I'm outta there.

Listen...I KNOW what y'all are getting at, and I totally respect it. The problem is that we are no longer living in that world. Now zip it...I'm not calling you old. :D "That world" was still in play when I was a little girl. Too much has happened, and we aren't as safe as we once were. Hold on to your freedoms by all means...but adjust to the way the world is today. Todays world SUCKS and her people are mean.

---

I agree with what you are saying. I was speaking in more general terms.
I have very simplistic views. I think that if someone doesn't like an hour long wait at the airport, for security searches....don't fly. If enough people stop flying, they'll figure out how to make it safe, without being such a pain.

If we don't like something, don't vote for it...with your vote, or with your dollars. And tell people what you're doing, and why.

I'm just sick of a small minority of people yelling the loudest, and getting whatever they want. Especially if it's taken away from me!

I get what you're saying and I have to say I agree.
The loudest are always those that want a hand out, I've found. While I think WE should be just as loud...we've got more important things to do in our day and CAN'T get the numbers big enough to irritate as much. We rely on ourselves, pay our own bills, don't walk out on our mortgages and bills, and TRY to keep our jobs. LOL! Kind of plays against us, huh? ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit

I have very simplistic views. I think that if someone doesn't like an hour long wait at the airport, for security searches....don't fly. If enough people stop flying, they'll figure out how to make it safe, without being such a pain.

If we don't like something, don't vote for it...with your vote, or with your dollars. And tell people what you're doing, and why.

I'm just sick of a small minority of people yelling the loudest, and getting whatever they want. Especially if it's taken away from me!

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I refuse to fly for that very reason.
I will not be spending money at a venue that treats me as a criminal.
And I do not vote for enemies of the Constitution I swore to defend.

My original gripe had to do with an overly invasive search and confiscation of personal property without pre-warning. By unrestricted rent-a cops.
They call a knife a weapon, I say it's a tool.
They call a pencil a tool, I say it's a very viable weapon.
Everyone is so "Bomb shy" these days, when you stand a greater chance of getting offed by a texting driver.

If Really Bad people are intent on doing harm. They would take it serious enough that security searches won't do a lot of good.:sneaky2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcgyver

I refuse to fly for that very reason.
I will not be spending money at a venue that treats me as a criminal.
And I do not vote for enemies of the Constitution I swore to defend.

My original gripe had to do with an overly invasive search and confiscation of personal property without pre-warning. By unrestricted rent-a cops.
They call a knife a weapon, I say it's a tool.
They call a pencil a tool, I say it's a very viable weapon.
Everyone is so "Bomb shy" these days, when you stand a greater chance of getting offed by a texting driver.

If Really Bad people are intent on doing harm. They would take it serious enough that security searches won't do a lot of good.:sneaky2:

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LOL. You and I are on the same page. I just went on a little rant........I feel better now. LOL:innocent:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit

...I just went on a little rant........I feel better now. LOL:innocent:

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Isn't that what this is all about? :clap:

True story. Just last week, I went in to get my hair cut at my usual place and removed my coat. I was wearing my Galco shoulder holster and my Glock 20. My barber lady asked why I was armed, I replied... "because I feel like exercising my second ammendment right". She replied "oh", and kept cutting my hair. I also went to the Safeway and open carried the other day and I got a few looks from the squeemish, but no one said a thing.
No carry permit, no license and no hassels.
I'm starting to carry when I deal with customers and so far, only one comment on "what caliber is that?"
Gotta love Alaska! Oh, just went to a movie theater in Anchorage today and watched a movie for $3.00 per person and had a pitcher of beer with wife and friends and had a pizza delivered to our seats! Yes, while in the theater!
Not bad for having to deal with Los Anchorage today!

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Originally Posted by Mountaintrekker

Oh, just went to a movie theater in Anchorage today and watched a movie for $3.00 per person and had a pitcher of beer with wife and friends and had a pizza delivered to our seats! Yes, while in the theater!
Not bad for having to deal with Los Anchorage today!

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Yeah, but they didn't try and make you think it was a new release did they? Gone With The Wind has been out for a little bit now.:innocent:

A pocket knife is a tool. But, so is a box cutter. I'm for an armed society. Less laws and more common sense. There is more truth to what Ken posted than most will agree to.

We need to stop the knee jerk legislation. Every time somebody subcumbs to any sort of tragedy they want to legislate their pain away with some minimum mandatory law. Let's let the jury decide.

As for what is happening with the war on terror. The goal of a terrorist is to use the fear of their attacks to disrupt your daily lives until you get so fed up with it that you give into their demands. You know like giving up your rights and being delayed by searches.

Also, it is not reasonable to think that we can just kill all of the terrorists. Nor, is it reasonable for then to kill all of them. So we might want to focus on a more intelligent solution.

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Originally Posted by Batch

A pocket knife is a tool. But, so is a box cutter. I'm for an armed society. Less laws and more common sense. There is more truth to what Ken posted than most will agree to.

We need to stop the knee jerk legislation. Every time somebody subcumbs to any sort of tragedy they want to legislate their pain away with some minimum mandatory law. Let's let the jury decide.

As for what is happening with the war on terror. The goal of a terrorist is to use the fear of their attacks to disrupt your daily lives until you get so fed up with it that you give into their demands. You know like giving up your rights and being delayed by searches.

Also, it is not reasonable to think that we can just kill all of the terrorists. Nor, is it reasonable for then to kill all of them. So we might want to focus on a more intelligent solution.

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I can't fully get on board with all of that, Batch.
I agree...that the "run of the mill" terrorist is indeed focusing on manipulating you through fear. However we're dealing with a totally different bread of terrorist now. We're dealing with extremists who don't care if they scare you into anything. They just want you dead if you're an American or non-Muslim.

Regardless of what is reported, we ARE in the middle of a Holy War and we can't even identify who our enemy is much of the time.

That's what I don't think many people understand, to be honest with you. It's not as simple as "hold on to your rights" anymore. We're between a rock and a hard place. If we give everyone the 100% freedom to be armed and protect themselves, we run the risk of full blown anarchy. Even our forefathers knew this wasn't the best idea. We run the risk of destroying ourselves if we lean TOO far in any direction. Anarchy is far too far to the right.

The jehad against America isn't a war against our freedoms. It's a war against our culture. There isn't a damn thing that we can do, to make them stop. While some may think that the preservation of freedom is more important than anything...our current enemy only cares about inflicting bodily harm upon their enemy. (that's us.) They don't care if we're unhappy. They just want us to turn our backs on Israel.

Sadly, we've entered into an age where anything and everything can and has been used as a weapon. Tools, automobiles, air planes, household chemicals, cell phones, the list goes on and on. This enemy is resourceful and smart and our laws not only allow for them to enter this country untouched, but to be treated with "kid gloves" when they ARE caught.

I'm not going to give up my rights because of someone else's religion. Nor would I want to lie down with the sheep who give up those rights, one by one, in the name of 'national security'. We have troops out there fighting for our freedom every day with little or no support from the rest of the free world. It would be a shame if they came home to find their own state and federal governments had taken all those rights away anyway.

There is more than a lot of truth to what Ken says. And it will get worse as the generations who were given whatever they wanted as children, never got their fannies paddled, never went outdoors without a bicycle helmet, and feel entitled to everything their little hearts desire, go out to vote, or run for office. Everyone wants the Free Lunch.

What I long for is a politician with the guts to stand on common sense rather than kowtow to the popular opinion. Politicians should look at what Scott Brown, a Republican, did in Massachusetts. If the guy stands on his campaign promises, his platform was the closest thing to common sense I've seen in a while. It'll be interesting to see if he falls victim to the Washingon bus.
<sorry if that treads too close to political discussion.>

Does it strike anyone as odd that after 9 years (9 YEARS!) we still have not cut off the head of the snake?

I'm not at all certain where you draw the line on this. Whatever is done some will see as an abuse of power and still others as not being enough. Having 20/20 vision is there anyone that would not have ordered Timothy McVey to move his van? To deny him his right to carry a weapon?

I'm not going to back down to some group of morons that twist religious writings to fit their model of the world. I will fly when I need to, travel where and when I WANT to and proclaim my allegiance to God, country, flag and family. Okay, mom and apple pie, too. We've been at war with radical Muslims since well before the crusades. This is just the same thing extended.

Here Here, Rick!

Once we stop fighting politically correct wars that try and win the hearts and minds of those that hate us - and go in, eliminate the threat and then leave and let them rebuild their own darn country - maybe they'll think twice about allowing that sort of stuff to go on inside their borders. This could have and should have been over and done with many years ago.

What Crash said.

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Originally Posted by Winnie

What Crash said.

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'Zactly!!!:clap: