Here is an article about a ski bum who might get two years in prison and a $250,000 fine for illegal camping as well as a couple other misdemeanors >
http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_14161506
Printable View
Here is an article about a ski bum who might get two years in prison and a $250,000 fine for illegal camping as well as a couple other misdemeanors >
http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_14161506
Here is a site with quite a few photos of ski bum Charlie Toups >
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Free-C...2972854?ref=ts
He looks like a real danger and burden to society. NOT!
But now Toups' brawny 6-foot frame is wedged in a jail cell in Georgetown, imprisoned for the past 57 days on misdemeanor federal charges of camping on public land, possessing marijuana and assaulting a Forest Service officer.
When officers searched his pockets, according to Lunders' testimony, they found "misdemeanor level paraphernalia and marijuana."
I guess I have a personality that conflicts with some tenets of management," he said.
I guess I am in a postion that will not be popular. I don't have sympathy for him. He was in possession of an illegal substance (not go to debate whether it should or should not be illegal), he resisted a government representative, and is admittedly a person that has Management conflicts.
I do like that he has had the opportunity to live the life style that he has chosen, but rules are rules. If we all went off "willy nilly" and ignored societies norms, there would be an even bigger mess. My opinion. And I will not debate legalities of Marijuana, etc, so please save those arguements
"The land of the free and the home of the brave"?????????
Now where did I draw that line between freedom and anarchy? Oh, yeah. Laws. Whew, I almost forgot.
http://recollectionbooks.com/bleed/i...B/4looting.jpg
Yeah, I'm not even interested in the grass possession, but actively resistant because he tensed up? He didn't strike, kick, etc etc at either officer and she had a post traumatic stress episode that caused her heart to enlarge? Get into a different line of work lady. And lawbreaking or not, somebody tell me who this guy was hurting?
By the same token, personally, if you want to break laws like that go ahead, but face the consequences when you get busted.
i would be right on board, except that i happen to know what stupidly involuntary actions can prompt resisting arrest charges.
without having been there, i have no place drawing a conclusion one way or the other.
So if they give this guy a $250,000 fine, how's he going to come up with the cash? I suppose he could start selling dope at ski hills, seems to me there'd be a market around those kinds of places for that sort of thing.
He could also rent out his camping spot at the DOT parking lot.
Isn't there something in the Bill of Rights pertaing to punishment must fit the crime???!!!??? Since when does a misdemeanor elicit a $250,000.00 fine???? If that is the case, why aren't these tax evading schmucks in DC getting the electric chair??? People would gladly pay to watch that!!!!!
I would think all his charges together amounted to that. Just a guess on my part, though. And it's probably the maximum allowed for those charges. It sells more press.
Were the laws he decided to ignore just? Does it matter? It was not his property. What if it had been your back yard? How about if two people decided to live in the parking lot? Maybe 100? We all have choices to make. If those choices run afowl of the law then there may be consequences. If I choose to carry a weapon in my back pack while in a park that prohibits firearms - then I will have to deal with the consequences of my actions if I am caught. Every day we choose to obey, or disregard laws. If we don't like the laws, one option is to ignore them. The other option would be to fight for change. I'd say that at 62, he has lived a pretty rich life on his terms and if I had to guess - will continue to do so.
I agree Crash, and this from a perspective of a man who's ignored a LOT of laws in his life. If I get nailed I take my beats. I think I'm getting too jaded and rundown to fight the "good fight", and at the risk of sounding political (which you all know I avoid as much as anyone) I think the problem with both of our great nations is too da## many laws.
I think it's a growing trend for law officers to claim health problems after an incident. Not just officers but all employees in general. Everybody wants to play the system these days, corporations too. It's so engrained in our society today.
What ever happened to just doing your job, getting your pay and going home? If people can't do the job they're hired to without suffering mental or physical anguish they should suck it up and deal with it or find another line of work. "Oh, the guy stiffened up on me and now my heart is inflated." LOL!
As far as the deadbeat goes, I think he should get normal fines and such for the pot, but, if he hadn't been arrested prior and a warrant put out for "camping" he would have never got those charges in the first place. As far as resisiting arrest and assault those charges sound trumped up to me, but I guess you'd have to be there or know the person to say for sure. It sounds like a lot of people have spoke up for this guy.
Amen to that brother.Quote:
Originally Posted by trax
Who do I talk to around here about my carpel tunnel? I have a railroad tunnel, too but that doesn't hurt.
Carpel tunnel? Is that like some underwater toll thingie for fish?
Corporal who, is in his tunnel?:blushing:
So, like the dude go to jail or what?
I am not coming to this good wilderness forum too much for various reasons. Mainly so much to read and post and answer dozens of messages and emails elsewhere. Answering questions from others who are constantly commenting and asking about my mtn retreat and outdoors survival.Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter63
But to answer your question hunter is that here are some quotes from the long article >
"Toups' brawny 6-foot frame is wedged in a jail cell in Georgetown, imprisoned for the past 57 days on misdemeanor federal charges of camping on public land, possessing marijuana and assaulting a Forest Service officer."
"Toups is scheduled for a jury trial in Denver District Court this month.
Toups' attorney declined to comment, but Jeff Dorschner, spokesman for the Colorado U.S. attorney, said the charges are appropriate, "given his conduct."
U.S. Attorney Michelle Heldmyer is prosecuting the case against Toups. At his November detention hearing, she argued successfully that Toups be held without bail on three misdemeanor counts."
Which sounds ridiculous to be held without bail for misdeameanors!
I do not agree with all he did especially possessing marijuana although I have seen many people in different areas of the mountains who smoke that s.....t
Does anyone ever remember hearing about the Rainbow family gatherings? I went to see that huge gathering of people - mainly hippies - about 20 years ago. There was the funny smelling smoke all over the place.
And I slept in a sleeping bag on a hillside and looked over the large gulch where the gathering took place.
It looked like many many hundreds of campfires all over the mountainsides and was fascinating. But I left the next day.
I do not believe in anarchy although I try to prepare for that also since it is a possible scenario for the future.
I do believe in people's freedom to live the way they wish even though we are slowly but surely losing our freedoms from so awful many millions of rules, regulations, laws, ordinances etc. etc. etc.
One interesting book about all that is "Did Big Brother Give you Permission to go WeeWee?"
Well, all about that for now....
I will tell you this from experience. The Federal Court system is not concerned with the punishment fitting the crime! I have been told by everyone I have dealt with in the Federal System. They do not even care if it is a crime. They err on the side of the prosecutor and not the defendant.Quote:
Originally Posted by SARKY
I was made to plea in Federal court to trespassing after posted hours and spotlighting prohibited in order to have a more serious charge dropped. The thing is that I was told by the arresting officer that most of the time they can't win trespassing because delays getting out of a wilderness area happen all the time. Engine problems on your boat or truck. Then spotlighting is only prohibited when hunting at night or in possession of a firearm. I was not in possession of even a bow at the time.
Anyway, I was out poaching gators so I needn't protest too loudly. I was fined $1,000 and failed to pay the last $100 on time. Once I was informed I had not paid in full, I quickly paid the balance. Still, now when ever I purchase a firearm I have to send a disposition from the judge and a letter from the processing county stating that I am no longer an out-of-state fugitive from the US Marshal's Office.
Them Feds just ain't got no sense of humor I tell you... :innocent:
They dropped the charges.
http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_14196290
Glad it all seems to have been worked out.
Well, it's easier to chase ski bums than terrorists, I guess.
Old hippies don't blow up much stuff.
Some do.Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter63
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ayers
About old hippies: Good example Crash, but clearly more the exception than the rule, most of them only blow their own minds (or past tense and there's no coming back)
About the ski bum: struck me as pretty harmless, so I'm glad they dropped the charges, but who knows, maybe he'll turn out to be another unibomber or something.
about bail: isn't it established on the risk of the defendant skipping out? This guy could have just slipped into a tie-dye t-shirt shop (perfect camoflage for him) and vanished on anyone pursuing him, obviously they can't be too careful
Trax's Spock-like logical conclusion? Can put this one to bed it's finished.
Back when Rudy was a mayor (in NYC) he did something real smart and was catching all sorts of flack for it from our liberal contingency. He decided to prosecute the turn style jumpers to the full extent of the law and while at it, look into their criminal background just for kicks.
What do you think they found?
Turned out time and time again, the same "petty" criminals had a long criminal record and were wanted on all sorts of crimes yet to be solved.
The point of the story:
People who are inclined to break the law will do it over and over again until caught and punished. It's hardly ever an isolated infraction.
As my grandfather used to say...for every rat you see, there are a hundreds you don't.
The old boy was right and I'm yet to see him proven wrong.
I'm glad the old fart got off. i wonder how much this whole process cost the tax payers.
Thanks for that info about another old hippie who was a revolutionary and now a Distinguished professor.Quote:
Originally Posted by crashdive123
From the above link > "In 1969 he co-founded the Weather Underground, a self-described communist revolutionary group[2] that conducted a campaign of bombing public buildings during the 1960s and 1970s, motivated by US involvement in the Vietnam War.
He is now a professor in the College of Education at the University of Illinois at Chicago, holding the titles of Distinguished Professor of Education and Senior University Scholar.[3] During the 2008 Presidential campaign, a controversy arose over his contacts with candidate Barack Obama. He is married to Bernadine Dohrn, who was a leader in the Weatherman organization."
While the Wiki article may have referred to that terrorist as distinguished --- I will not.
Thanks for that, I did not see that, although it was just posted yesterday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
This site claims: " Trailer Tom} Charlie Toups is free!! He has been released from jail. Look for Charlie back on his skis where he belongs. Thanks to everyone for all the support, WE DID IT!!"
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Free-C..._fb_noscript=1
I wonder If the power and influence of the Internet as well as the largest newspaper in Colorado - the Denver Post - helped free Charlie??
Bill Ayers is a criminal that has no place educating our youth. Another example of stupidity.
And old Charlie gets away with it. Shows no respect for the laws and skates away, another good example for the kids
I’d venture to guess that Charlie is a far cry from a commie or a terrorist, way to go old fart!
I definitely agree that Bill Ayers is a criminal & terrrist and I find it ridiculous that he is now a "Distinguished" professor at the University of Illinois. I read once that there are more Marxists in the universities of the USA than in Russia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pal334
But old Charlie Toups "got away" with illegal camping since 1976 and Now they arrest him? I think suciety has changed a lot, especially over the past five years...
Maybe it is more of a nanny state? And I should not even bring it up, I suppose but I find it interesting that the forest service Officer who arrested Charlie Toups is a woman as well as the judge, federal prosecutor, public defender and I might have missed some more....
As told about in the OP and in the latest article } http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_14196290
It seems to me that laws are posted to keep folks civil. Old Charlie probably doesn't have the money to pay a fine and putting him in jail (past what he's already served) probably isn't going to make anyone any safer. If they came to some agreement with him and coerced him into walking on the correct side of the law then maybe justice was served.
Mtn. Mike - I would think that all the park cops know him and probably had as much influence in him being released as anything. I'll bet all they really want is for him to stop being a pain in their butt. But that's just a guess on my part.
My point with Old Charlie is, the youguns see that you only have to obey the laws you want. In and of himself, he is just a blip on the scope that will annoy law abiding citizens.
Rick you could just join me in the surgery I had on the 7th. Then you would just be tied up for a while, then get better. BTW I'm down to just a brace, & the stitches were out yesterday. I had my right hand done in '91, & it's still good. Just saying. :gimp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
I've had both hands done. If I weren't so hard headed I'd have some fingers done, too. At least that's what my wife tells me. She's a nurse so she must be right.
Good luck with your recovery.Quote:
Originally Posted by charibelle18