The More You Know, The Less You Carry

That phrase (title of the thread) is often used. I didn't want to hijack another thread, so here goes......

Personally, I disagree with it and here's why.

For me it's the more I know, the more I carry. Obviously there are some limits to that. With knowing what I do about what can and sometimes does happen I like to carry enough gear to negate any of those "what ifs".

I completely understand wanting to be a minimalist. But I think the difference comes in with a style of outdoor adventure rather than a knowledge of the outdoors. A person with insufficient knowledge about what they are undertaking can find themselves in trouble with or without gear.

Where I do agree with the phrase is if you are going to be a minimalist you had better have a very good knowledge level. With more experience that will enable the minimalist to enjoy their craft all that much more.

Would that make them a mini minimalist.

I apply to this when I go to backpacking with no pre determined destination. The less you carry will mean less weight, less unnecessary items, less in size and more space for the necessary items such as water and food.
The less I carry is more towards weight or size.
For example, a tarp...I would carry the biggest tarp available, which can be folded into a smaller size and less in weight. The material would be the main factor.
then a mini water filter, followed by an efficient stove (as I do not like open fires). My cook sets are usually limited to 3 pots (inclusive a plate), 1 for boiling water, 1 for cooking rice and the other for cooking other meals from meat/fish/vegy.
I carry a few fire making tools being a magnesium strip with fire steel, 2 fire steel (1 n the knife sheath) and a stand alone fire steel. I carry my vaselined cotton balls in a small container.
My first aid kit is a regular size.

There were times if I had a pre determined area to camp, and I know there are bamboos and abundance water supply, I would not carry my cooksets. I would just carry my survival kit container being a Trangia mess tin as a support cookset. However when I am cooking with a bamboo cookset, I would have to make an open fire, which i will bury in the ground when I leave the area.
I will not compromise on a tarp for shelter, my first aid kit, my survival kit and my fire making kit. But I do find that as my knowledge of the area I am going to and also my jungle craft improves, I found that I have been carrying less.
For example, tent pegs are something nice to have, but if I want to minimize on spoiling the forest, i would have them in my pack.
I would also carry less food if I know the area has a stream and getting fish is easy...To me, it does not mean when you carry less, you will not bring along the essentials.
My pack used to be about 20 kg (42lbs)..now I am my pack weights below 10 kg (22lbs)...so its much more lighter and I am able to cover more..

This has been a debate among the back packing fraternity for decades. Actually it has been more of a "knock down drag out".

On one side you have the ultralight hikers that go with "the more you know the less you carry", and on the opposing side, the heavy haulers who take the attitude of "better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it".

In my younger days I operated with a branch of the North American Mountain Men, an organized crew that demanded a superior level of knowledge and wilderness skill. Each item in your pack had to be verified as historically accurate for the 18th century, needed for the assigned scenario and usable for at least three separate tasks or you could not justify carrying it. We would often do "one pounder" weekends where we could carry only one pound of food and no more than 20 pounds of pack gear total. Your blanket alone weighed 8 pounds so you really had 12 pounds of gear. (Hunting and fishing was allowed)

The same group would show up at "rondys" with truck and trailer loaded with everything but the kitchen sink.

Everyone goes through a learning curve and realized that they have carried specific items into the field numerous tines and never used them, and come to realize they will never be used. Eventually they wise up and discard those items. If they are being carried in a pack the wisdom often comes sooner than latter. If in a vehicle we often carry more than we would ever dream of needing.

So the more you know the less you will carry as you follow the learning curve.

But there is that old saying about that goes "We have done so much for so long with so little, that we can now do anything with nothing!"

if you have reached that level you are ready for "Naked and Afraid".

I have to agree with Crash...and I don't backpack so it's really a moot point. It's "whatever I can get inside the car and trunk," so it's a "non-issue with me. Murphy's law dogs me like a plague, and it never fails, what ever I leave behind I'm gonna need...I even take a kitchen sink! (no lie.)...:cowboy:

years ago I heard a saying "the most prepared will be seperated from their preps when needed" thats why I practice primative bushcraft, if I'm seperated from my knowledge then I have even bigger problems,LOL. I love gear, can't have to much, then I have the flip side, when i like to go native and really rough it, must be because I'm Gemini

"It's the unknowing or uncaring the carry the least?"
I guess I should amend my signature to read....."The more you know all the bad stuff that can possibility happen...the more you carry.. or get a bigger truck"..

Yeah, I have to agree to a point.....Knowing a lot of minimalist stuff, and actually wanting to do things that was are two different things.

For now I sticking with my signature, as I doi agree in principle....never said I was any good at it.....yet.

I've heard it quoted as follows: "The more you know, the less you need". Perhaps the original saying changed throughout the years as it was passed down...who knows?
I believe it was Mors Kochanski who perhaps changed it...?

DomC

That saying has been around for a long time....first saw it regarding mountain men heading up into mountains for a trapping season with little more than the "possibles"....the Romantic version.
That is a myth...... and is a version or today's "Run away into the wilderness with my knife and paracord".

Fact is they had pack horses and plenty of gear/supplies for the business of trapping and processing hides for sale, as did the miners and foresters, and later the cowboys.

Doing more with less is a goal that we all try for........knowledge being always important.

Okay,,since I carry only these for a 3 day trip...what does that make me? Attachment 10204 I would like to know where would that put me. In my part of the world, I am considered adequately equipped. Please advise. I would like to know and compare our differences.

I like the OP's observations, and I too tend to carry more, but that doesn't mean I carry more weight than I used to...

I think my motto is more like, "The more you know, the better you pick what you carry".


Experience is a great teacher too! Ive learned what I should have had, and what I shouldn't have brought.. all in the same day, many times!

EB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tokwan

Okay,,since I carry only these for a 3 day trip...what does that make me? Attachment 10204 I would like to know where would that put me. In my part of the world, I am considered adequately equipped. Please advise. I would like to know and compare our differences.

---

I would say "experienced", as the knowledge and experience of many trips kinda let you know what you need.
Looks like a pretty balanced kit to me.

I firmly believe that the weight has to be held down to the point that you can run (really swiftly) with it. For all but a very few people, that weight is 30 lbs. An avalanche, a flash flood, a dog pack, dangerous people, rabid animals, forest fire, many things can mean that you'd better move out, fast, and if you leave your gear behind, it means death, too, slow or otherwise.

Hunter..some say I carry too much, some say I carry to little..but I shrugged these comments as I carry what I need...

diddap....yes..to me and IMHO, weight and size is the most important thing..as I said in my earlier comments, I am in the hunt for lighter and smaller equipment...which i have managed to reduced to +-22 lbs..I think given some time, I can reduce more..I only carry a 35L backpack. However there are areas that i go too, I reduce by another 5-6lbs, as I do not need to carry any stoves or cook sets..using the natural resources nature gives me....

The reason i goi to the jungle is not only to get away from the crowd or to have peacefulness..its something that I love, the peacefullness, serenity, back to nature..and a piece of mind...working in a Multi National Company is quite stressful...and I also have a chance to practice and polish up my survival skills...if you look at the items I packed, sometimes, I do not use them all...but its there should I need them.

And if you noticed..I do not bring along a sleeping bag , a thick jacket or a thick blanket as our conditions here in Malaysia is hot and humid. A space blanket is adequate with a good poncho to keep you warm should it gets colder...I usually wear a simple short and light t-shirt when I am at my base camp.

This could be the reason, I pack less and lighter (I think so...) and an advantage for me...However, if thinks go wrong and I need to run..I wll discard my main back pack and just carry my survival pouch which contains my survival kits in my Trangia Mess Tin..

I would like an appreciate very much for you guys to look at my packed items...in my other post, keeping in mind that I am living in Malaysia and its climate, give me feedback what i should add or remove.

Sorry if I failed to articulate properly.
Thank you.

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