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I was wondering if anyone has used 300 Blackout on their AR platform. From what I understand only a barrel change is required. If you've shot it what was/is your impression of the round? It seems to be right in there with the 7.62X39 for performance but with the accuracy of the AR.
Just started hearing about them last year or so....and have seen some Handi Rifles chambered in this round. (On my Maybe list)
Seems it's a subsonic to supersonic depending on bullet.... rounds are based on a .223 case blown out to .308.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_AAC....62%C3%9735mm)
Looks like you are correct in the barrel change only ........
Rick, the 300BO is a good round, no doubt... but expensive to get there, and expensive to feed... Maybe an AR in 308 would be the best route IMHO. That or just run an AK and be aware of the cartridge's limitations.
Im poor, so the AK route is what I took... If money were no object I would likely go AR in 308.
FWIW, but... Im sure you already have thrown the above ideas around. I only mention so you can (re)reflect on the points.
EB
I have the 7.62X54 and really like the round. I've always wanted the 7.62X39 but didn't really want to go the route of the AK. It just seems the 7.62X35 blends a tough round with the accuracy of the AR Platform. Kind of a win/win and if all you have to do is change the barrel then cost to convert my AR is pretty small.
Rick I think people just don't treat the AK the same way they do the AR, as in settling down and really shooting it for accuracy.
I put a scope on mine, a Tapco G2 trigger for $35 and it shoots milsurp ammo into an inch and a half @ 100. My AK is more accurate than my SKS. It is as accurate as my 30-30 rifles at 100 yards and is better than they are at 200 yards. I can consistently ring the 12" gong on our club range at 350 yards. That might not win at Camp Perry matches but it is "good enough" for general work.
I can buy complete AK rounds for the cost of .30 caliber slugs for reloading the Blackout with none of the hassles of reloading.
And the Blackout still does not give the performance of the 7.62x39. All the specs I have seen put it just between the .30 carbine and the AK round.
On top of that AK rifles are settling down to a realistic price right now. You can get an AK for less than $500, which is going to be about the price of your blackout upper unit.
For me, the AK is sort of like the AR platform. There are sooooo many varieties out there. It seems like everyone and his kid sister makes them and there are everything from full American versions to imported half breeds gussied up or down to appease ATF. How does a guy know what a good AK is anymore? Century seems to be putting out a lot of them.
CAI had in the past, from what I read, sold a lot of junk... The AKs thats coming from them now seam to be good to go. Case in point, the daughter and I both have WASRs and they run like a raped ape, no problems with accuracy and take any mag made, plus the price is right.
I skipped IO and Saiga and with with a WASR based on a friend/gun dealer's suggestion... Glad I did.
I chose WASR over Yugo for the chrome lined barrel.
In the end, for an affordable AK, either WASR or Yugo. Aresonel would be nice but the price is quite high.
Avoid IO like the plague.
I would steer clear of the VZ, which is NOT an AK... there is no real advantage IMHO and they take only VZ mags.
This is of course, if you are leaning toward AK.
EB
Sorry, but reading that post is like trying to figure out texting slang. For those of us not as familiar with makes and brands could you translate please?
I do not personally own a .300 BLK, but a buddy of mine does and I've shot it quite a bit. He uses it for hunting our small framed Sitka Blacktail deer, for which it seems to work fine. I would say, if you already own an AR, then a .300 BLK would be worth looking at, if not, then its an expensive way to get into the AR world. The .300 BLK was designed for subsonic suppressor use, so any benefits from using supersonic ammo would be pretty much nil over a more established round like the 7.63x39. Too, unless you roll your own ammo, .300 is going to be pricey. If you really want an AR for multi-use purposes in a caliber greater than .223, I would peek at the 6.8 SPC, still expensive ammo, but a much more efficient cartridge in my opinion. Otherwise, get an AK!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElevenBravo
OK here goes. The alphabet soup is equal to us talking about Springfield, Rock Island or Harpers Ferry arsenals or production of the M1 at Winchester, International Harvester....
Where the American production was uniform the Soviet Union allowed some flexibility from nation to nation since the production was not done under Soviet control but under licensing since there was no patent right to the AK. Baretta did the same thing to the M1 after WW2 and was considered the inspiration for the M14.
WASSR is the Romanian arsenal They switched over to making export guns at the fall of the Soviet Union. They were making trash for a while but have improved.
Yugo can come from any of the arsenals in the old Yugoslavian area. Bosnia, Croatia, Serbia. They make a variety of good stuff.
You will also see a variety labeled PAP as in NPAP and OPAP, they are Serbian.
Saiga is made at the old Ishmash arsenal over near Lake Baikal. they have no pistol grip and the trigger is moved to the rear of the action. They also use different magazines. They also make AK pattern shotguns.
VEPR is also a common import, but they are jazzed up as sporters, like the Saiga.
The VZ58 is Czechoslovakian. CZ was the rogue state of the SU and built their own designs. All CZ guns are excellent. The Chech guns normally do not have interchangeable parts. They are among the best of the variants that were made. They look sort of like an AK but are quite different on examination.
You will also see the CIA brand. That is Century International Arms. They are the largest importer in the US at this point. They are also producing complete guns at their Vermont factory.
NORINCO was the old firm that imported mostly Chinese arms back before the Clinton Ban. They are still major importers in Canada. There are still a lot of Norinco Chinese AKs floating around on the used gun market.
All of the AK models have diverged since the SU broke up, mostly to meet the standards of the export market. Most of the differences are cosmetic or in stocks and how they are mounted with most internals being the same. They have also stretched the AK action to accommodate both .308 and 7.62x54R cartridges.
Many of the AK rifles being sold are now manufactured or modified in Vermont, USA. All AK rifles imported must meet 922r compliance regulations so they are all stripped to the frame and a number of US made parts installed to meet the law before they are shipped to distributers. Each rifle must have at least 6 specific USA made parts to meet the requirements.
How do you tell a good one from a bad one??? You look real close. As in anything else, workmanship will tell.
But even there things are tricky. The WASSR guns come in different levels of trim, like the difference between a field grand and presentation grade shotgun. You get the same action and internals and a different level of finish.
Right now some of the WASSR rifles are available with powder coated actions and unfinished stocks. They look like crap but they are good shooters.
Thats pretty much what we got... No fan fill no glitter, but damned reliable and a straight shooter.Quote:
Originally Posted by kyratshooter
Crash, I think KY pretty much hit all the nails on the head, but if theres a point you want expanded on just say so and we will make more sense out of it for you.
EB
Look for canted stocks and canted front sights, sloppy fit of mags in the magazine wells. Overall fit and finish is a good indicator. But, I have seen some older Wasr-10s with ratty looking furniture that shoot as good as any AK I have seen. The canted front sight was the big complaint on most Wasr-10s and that can be fixed. But, be better just checking for it before you buy one.
Also, a big thing for a lot of guys was a chrome lined barrel for corrosive ammo. I think most ammo available is non-corrosive now.
So I guess this has turned into "AK Cook Book"?
Now I am still trying to get what the 300 blackout is designed to do?
Big bullet 220 gr 30 cal subsonic for suppressor use?
Smaller light lighter 125 cal bullet for flat shooting supersonic use?
Alternate use of the AR platform to match the 7.62 X39 AK round....sorta a military 30-30.
Seems like a lot of work and expense solving a problem no one has come up with yet?
I think it was the first one for special ops.
.300BO was engineered to meet the performance of the 7.62x39 as closely as possible using the AR platform and AR magazines.
No "cloak and dagger" work, no requests from the military. It was a private development of a proprietary cartridge to cash in on sales potential of replicating AK performance on an AR platform.
Took them 65 years and a few million dollars to get there, and some day they might make it.
While the developers met all their other goals they were not able to duplicate performance and with the present powders available, they wound up 200fps slower than the AK round.
200fps might not sound like much of a drop but it is the same difference between 30-06 and 300Win Mag. It is really going to show up in the drop figures out at 250-350 meters where both cartridges are stretched to the max.
Some of us dont buy guns based on solving a problem, other than not having enough guns in enough different calibers and most importantly, enough money to support our "needs" :banana: :cool::gunsmilie:Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter63
You just posted that to a man that owns 463 Handi Rifle barrels.
LOL, he should be the one guy with the best reasons to buy another one ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Well I did say that a 300 black out is on my Handi "Maybe" list.........Right now I starting to play with the .500 S&W that followed me back from Louisiana.....
Was just trying to see what the advantage or this round was.....and history.
Your are correct......I don't "need" a reason....other than I don't have one,....... yet......LOL
Some of us passed the "need based purchase point" way back in the past!
We have even passed the "two is one, one is none" fantasy level.
As for the number of handirifle barrels???
Shall we compare that to owning a half dozen AR upper units in all sorts of wildcat configurations?
My vote on this one???
Too each his own!
Buy a blackout and play with it to your heart's content. You are not hurting me, yourself or anyone else.
or if economy is in the mix, go for the 7.62x39 in one or the other of its configurations; SKS, AK or VZ.
One can purchase the VZ58, 5 mags and 500 rounds of 7.62x39, or an SKS and 1000 rounds, for the cost of the .300BO upper unit offered at Midway.