Thinking it through.

Most of you know my definition of Survival; in the broad sense, it's making it through the day alive; in the narrower sense it depends on the situation.

Having said that I am concerned that some on here have not thought it through. Yes, it's true that survival skills will come into play when TSHTF, IF & ONLY IF you've prepared for that eventuality properly! Here's some thoughts:

1.) BOB vehicle loaded up: Concerns: How will I get through all of the traffic that will obviously be "bugging out" as well? What if an EMP weapon has been used & now my vehicle is nothing more than an emergency shelter? What if the authorities are containing all civilians & are barring all escape routes with armed troops?

2.) How will I keep an adequate supply of food & water available? Wild edibles are only good for a limited time, what if it's winter? How long can I expect to graze off of the local vegetation before it's gone, especially with all of the other people doing the same thing? (To quote Remy: "The forest is NOT a supermarket.")

3.) Why do I think I can survive without help from others?

Right now there's a thread on surviving flooding. How many other disasters can you think of? We've recently had a minor earthquake here. What about toxic spills in your area? These are concerns that need to be addressed, not just "big Brother!" :cool2:

Sarge, For me, my highest risk is clearly body malfunction. Caused by truck crash, bear mauling, cancer, stroke, logging injury, etc. & the economic destruction that would accompany that because I have "NO" health insurance, and never have had any medical insurance.

My second highest risk is forest fire.

My third highest risk is that is not being able to survive the erosion of my very small social security income, either because of Hyper-Inflation, or insolvency of Social Security.

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Originally Posted by Sarge47

1.) BOB vehicle loaded up: Concerns: How will I get through all of the traffic that will obviously be "bugging out" as well? What if an EMP weapon has been used & now my vehicle is nothing more than an emergency shelter? What if the authorities are containing all civilians & are barring all escape routes with armed troops?

2.) How will I keep an adequate supply of food & water available? Wild edibles are only good for a limited time, what if it's winter? How long can I expect to graze off of the local vegetation before it's gone, especially with all of the other people doing the same thing? (To quote Remy: "The forest is NOT a supermarket.")

3.) Why do I think I can survive without help from others?

Right now there's a thread on surviving flooding. How many other disasters can you think of? We've recently had a minor earthquake here. What about toxic spills in your area? These are concerns that need to be addressed, not just "big Brother!" :cool2:

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1.) I actually expect to have to walk anyway, and I know a wooded path to get me there so I can stay off main roads, etc. You can't drive where I'm going anyway, so a vehicle is pretty useless. Armed troops, will pose little more than an inconvenience unless they are posted AT my door.

2.) I don't know about everyone else, but my location has plenty of good things to eat and fresh water running year round. Springs don't freeze and there are always fish available. For all the people I've talked to locally about such things, Noone else seems concerned even a little bit. I'm sure there will be plenty of other people to eat if I run out of fish and veggies. I had to contact the state university to even find someone remotely near my area to help me learn wild edibles. Nobody cares and nobody will be eating them. Folks around here will starve to death or poison themselves and be food for me. Which poses another question: How do you feel about eating people? I've heard folks taste like pork. yummy! :tongue_smilie:

3.) I think I will have no choice, other than to fend for myself for the reason stated above. Nobody else knows squat about surviving, nor do they care to learn. Who will help me? Who will I be able to rely on?
I know I can count on myself.

I realize the questions were really rhetoric, but I really wanted to lend some light from my side of the river, err, creek, err.. These are things I've thought about long and hard, and I've got a plan.
Am I ready if it happens tomorrow? probably not, but, by God, I will do my best. Never underestimate a person's will to live!
Short of Nuclear war, or intentional poisoning of the underground aquifers, I believe I could make due. Farmers pump enough toxic junk into the ground now, that it would take a great deal of toxicity and thorough planning to really destroy this place. I can think of lots of disasters that might cause me to have to leave, but none will destroy me completely except for the cataclysmic events I've pointed out. Mostly it IS situation dependent. I tell you what.. If you can get to my house, you can go with me and help :D
And who's really gonna go after a buncha dumba** rednecks anyway?:bat:

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Originally Posted by Sarge47

1.) What if an EMP weapon has been used

2.) How will I keep an adequate supply of food & water available?

3.) Why do I think I can survive without help from others?

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1) Got points, and a carb, My truck will run. It only has to make it less than 50 miles to the BOL staging area. It will be left there, If I have to move into the bush.
There is no reason why you can buy a $500 70s beater truck. They are everywhere around here.

2) We have enough food to last months, by then we will have crops in the ground, and meat in the cache. Water is everywhere.

3) We already have a network built. We will live, and if necessary, die together.

To answer your last question of what other disasters, there are several listed in this thread.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...er+definitions

What year model vehicles would survive an EMP?

It's a good question, MM. It really depends on the make but, in general, 1975 is sort of a rule of thumb. Chrysler started using electronic ignition in '72, Ford in '74. I have no idea when GM went to EI.

It also depends on the type of electronic ignition. There are basically two types. Induction and capacitive discharge (CDI). CDI is what's used in most cars today. CDI started being used in the '80s.

That said, there is a school of thought that any vehicle is safe because the body acts as a Faraday cage and protects all the electronics. In fact, some tests indicate that may be true.

http://empcommission.org/docs/A2473-...ission-7MB.pdf

Most military vehicles should be protected since that's a known issue and a possible battle scenario. As we said in another thread, you can pick up surplus vehicles all day long for $10-$12K or less. Sometimes much less. I saw a 6x on Craigs List earlier today for 4500 and it was loaded with options like winch, hard top, heater, etc.

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Originally Posted by Rick

Most military vehicles should be protected since that's a known issue and a possible battle scenario. As we said in another thread, you can pick up surplus vehicles all day long for $10-$12K or less. Sometimes much less. I saw a 6x on Craigs List earlier today for 4500 and it was loaded with options like winch, hard top, heater, etc.

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That is what I paid for my 6X6 Duce & a Half is $4,500.-- Funny thing, it had no registration, so I went to G.I. Joes and bought full woodland camo BDU, shaved my head, and drove it 125 miles to the homestead on July 4'th. People were saluting me or the truck.

I wonder why we spend so much time preparing and trying to delay the inevitable....death. Why I don't want to die nor do I look for it, but I can't see spending my whole short life thinking about it or trying to prolong it. Up until a few years ago I had no real "faith" but now that I do it has made me value the time I have and not look back or into the future which I can not control. I agree that preparation is good and important but to what extend, to what end. If it's my time to go than so be it all the prep and skills wont do any good. Just seems like people spend a lot of time worrying about their own demise when they have no real control of it any way.

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Originally Posted by your_comforting_company

1.) I actually expect to have to walk anyway, and I know a wooded path to get me there so I can stay off main roads, etc. You can't drive where I'm going anyway, so a vehicle is pretty useless. Armed troops, will pose little more than an inconvenience unless they are posted AT my door.

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How many other people know about it? Why would you leave your home?

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Originally Posted by your_comforting_company

2.) I don't know about everyone else, but my location has plenty of good things to eat and fresh water running year round. Springs don't freeze and there are always fish available. For all the people I've talked to locally about such things, No one else seems concerned even a little bit.

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They're not concerned because they don't think it can happen to them. Once that they realize that it can is when the danger really hits.

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Originally Posted by your_comforting_company

I'm sure there will be plenty of other people to eat if I run out of fish and veggies.

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Don't forget the hot sauce!

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Originally Posted by your_comforting_company

I had to contact the state university to even find someone remotely near my area to help me learn wild edibles. Nobody cares and nobody will be eating them. Folks around here will starve to death or poison themselves and be food for me.

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Trust me on this one, when starvation starts to hit everybody will be looking!

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Originally Posted by your_comforting_company

Which poses another question: How do you feel about eating people? I've heard folks taste like pork. yummy! :tongue_smilie:

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Nah, they taste like chicken...or...uh...so I've been told!

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Originally Posted by your_comforting_company

3.) I think I will have no choice, other than to fend for myself for the reason stated above. Nobody else knows squat about surviving, nor do they care to learn. Who will help me? Who will I be able to rely on?
I know I can count on myself.

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"No man is an island unto himself." Who watches while you sleep? who's got your back? There's safety in numbers.

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Originally Posted by your_comforting_company

I realize the questions were really rhetoric, but I really wanted to lend some light from my side of the river, err, creek, err.. These are things I've thought about long and hard, and I've got a plan. Am I ready if it happens tomorrow? probably not, but, by God, I will do my best. Never underestimate a person's will to live!

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You can only plan so much, that's my point! The will to live is one thing, the will to survive to a point of satisfaction is something else.

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Originally Posted by your_comforting_company

Mostly it IS situation dependent. I tell you what.. If you can get to my house, you can go with me and help :D And who's really gonna go after a bunch of dumb a** rednecks anyway?:bat:

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1st, I'll be "bugging in! 2nd, who? anybody that wants what you have, & there will be a lot more of them than there are of you! :sneaky2:

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Originally Posted by Tripwire

1) Got points, and a carb, My truck will run. It only has to make it less than 50 miles to the BOL staging area. It will be left there, If I have to move into the bush.
There is no reason why you can buy a $500 70s beater truck. They are everywhere around here.

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Don't they all have a magneto? Or no?

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Originally Posted by Rick

To answer your last question of what other disasters, there are several listed in this thread.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...er+definitions

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Thanks Rick, it's always good to refresh some of the old info from time to time. I never read most of Bragg's stuff so I missed this one! :blushing:

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Originally Posted by doug1980

I wonder why we spend so much time preparing and trying to delay the inevitable....death. Why I don't want to die nor do I look for it, but I can't see spending my whole short life thinking about it or trying to prolong it. Up until a few years ago I had no real "faith" but now that I do it has made me value the time I have and not look back or into the future which I can not control. I agree that preparation is good and important but to what extend, to what end. If it's my time to go than so be it all the prep and skills wont do any good. Just seems like people spend a lot of time worrying about their own demise when they have no real control of it any way.

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I agree with you my self, BTW! :cool2:

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Originally Posted by mountain mama

What year model vehicles would survive an EMP?

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I always thought that no matter what it is as long as it was off during the EMP attack it would work. Of course I have been wrong before...once or twice. :)

I'm with Sarge. Because of my situation my plan is to bug in. I'll only bug out if absolutely necessary. Once everything has calmed down I may relocate, and yes I have someone else's property in mind for that.

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Originally Posted by doug1980

I always thought that no matter what it is as long as it was off during the EMP attack it would work. Of course I have been wrong before...once or twice. :)

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nope sorry will not work

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Originally Posted by Sarge47

Trust me on this one, when starvation starts to hit everybody will be looking! :

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trust you????ha i don't think so, what is the solid research behind your statement

[/QUOTE]
(To quote Remy: "The forest is NOT a supermarket.")

[/QUOTE]

quite true it is not a supermarket, a supermarket has everything right there ready for you to eat just some simple things to do, the forest however is plentiful if one knows how to look(not where but how)

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Originally Posted by Sarge47

Don't they all have a magneto? Or no?

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Nope, A coil, (wire in oil) Mechanical points & condenser (more oil)

http://www.procarcare.com/images/sha...a/8852CG01.gif

A mechanical cam rotates the points open and closed

my outlook is simple, all i need to do is survival anywhere from one year to two years on what i have stored, lots wil die for many reasons accorrding to some the die offs will come in 3 waves, i think after that the true rebuilding will commence, so yes while the lifestyle you are now accustomed to will be gone another will takes its place.
while the prospects of this is not very pleasant to most, you will at some point become acclimated to this just the same as when you step outside at night and cannot see anything then after a spell it gets better, so will life-if you survive it

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Originally Posted by Winnie

I'm with Sarge.

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I think I'll start drinking early today...........It is Snowing again anyway.

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Originally Posted by Doug

I always thought that no matter what it is as long as it was off during the EMP attack it would work. Of course I have been wrong before...once or twice.

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Doug - That is the premise. In the test link I posted above they state the following:

"Automobiles were subjected to EMP environments under both engine turned off and
engine turned on conditions. No effects were subsequently observed in those automobiles that were not turned on during EMP exposure. The most serious effect observed on running automobiles was that the motors in three cars stopped at field strengths of approximately 30 kV/m or above. In an actual EMP exposure, these vehicles would glide to a stop and require the driver to restart them. Electronics in the dashboard of one automobile were damaged and required repair. Other effects were relatively minor. Twenty-five automobiles exhibited malfunctions that could be considered only a nuisance (e.g., blinking dashboard lights) and did not require driver intervention to correct. Eight of the 37 cars tested did not exhibit any anomalous response.

Based on these test results, we expect few automobile effects at EMP field levels below 25 kV/m. Approximately 10 percent or more of the automobiles exposed to higher field levels may experience serious EMP effects, including engine stall, that require driver intervention to correct. We further expect that at least two out of three automobiles on the road will manifest some nuisance response at these higher field levels. The serious malfunctions could trigger car crashes on U.S. highways; the nuisance malfunctions could exacerbate this condition. The ultimate result of automobile EMP exposure could be triggered crashes that damage many more vehicles than are damaged by the EMP, the consequent loss of life, and multiple injuries."

They saw similar results with trucks, both gas and diesel.

They state early on in the article that aside from any impacts that may occur to vehicles drivers will also need to be concerned about the ability to acquire fuel since power will probably be out. The other issue concerns traffic signals since they will probably not be functioning because of the loss of power. In fact, they state that MORE vehicles with be damaged as a result of the loss of traffic signal caused wrecks than an initial EMP event.

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Originally Posted by wareagle69

trust you????ha i don't think so, what is the solid research behind your statement

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Well, how about we start at the end of WWII when young German children came up missing all over Berlin. They were being eaten by the German populance. Then there's that soccar team that crashed in the Andes, the Donner party.......:sneaky2:

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Originally Posted by wareagle69

quite true it is not a supermarket, a supermarket has everything right there ready for you to eat just some simple things to do, the forest however is plentiful if one knows how to look(not where but how)

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Which forest is that? You live in Canada & have no idea what's NOT available in my neck of the woods. :cool2: