Group Survival 101.

I think that governance in a small group can rely heavily on "council", where a leader has opportunity to gain from any and all member's expertise. Immediate decisions, when required, are up to that leader. Disciplinary measures and "motivation" are also up to that leader. There's a time for both, council based decisions and unilateral decisions. Unanimous agreement is rare, but consensus can be garnered in those situations (vis: I don't agree with Sarge's coffee making, but for the sake of the group I agree to let him keep trying) A "foe" to the group is where volwest first suggested his own expertise. In a council setting he might suggest that he could utilize my skills, or WE's, or RiM's in dealing with those foes. The situation as I'm describing it is much like the way most North American native groups functioned back in the day.

Sarge just re-identified something that volwest mentioned earlier. His own penchant for being one who distances himself from the rest of the group because of the task that he has taken responsibility for, personally, I tend to be much the same way, that's the reason why I mentioned what I did earlier. Hunting is a good example, I'm going to be where my prey is when it's there, that may require me to be catching some sleep while others are working or hanging out around Sarge's kitchen looking for a bite to eat during "off" hours. The group...in council...finds agreement in that, the leader makes allowances for it to happen.

Of course, I'm babbling for nothing in a lot of this because I don't have the right to speak for volwest and he's definitely not someone I want to make assumptions for:rolleyes: The same goes for the FVR, WE, Nell, owl_girl and the rest. I'm just trying to throw in some "how about this..." scenarios

I just had a thought. Actually two, one being that it's great that I'm supposed to be working and I'm sitting here typing to myself because the regulars aren't in that much during the morning.

The second one being....the size of the group and individual expertise. What I'm suggesting here is, kind of like the old days on the ball field. It was mentioning to lumpy that "if yer in yer in" that made me think of it. One common form of "group governance"....more than one group. I think we've got plenty of survival expertise among a lot of people here and plenty of mil. experience too, which is a great thing. We've had several people offer some of their expertise on survival without weighing in on our group survival thread. So we could have people choosing what leader they would rather follow, or what team mate they would rather work with, or leaders requesting someone based on the need of that group. Hope I'm not making everything too confusing..:eek:

So SHTF, It is mid August and we are not going back to town for quite some time. We head for the big northern woods anywhere USA. Me and my clan are hauling our gear through the woods on our fourwheelers. Heading to a lake about 30 miles off the road We are about 15 miles out having just killed 6 rabbits we are looking for suitable camp site to make dinner when we notice smoke a mile or so away.

It is
Vol-West
Owl-Girl
Foggy
Trax
Wareagle 69
Marscroft

Having never met them we are reluctant move in. so we send in a single guy armed with a side arm, and a two way radio, nothing else to suggest we have anything of value. It’s me (I am the only dumb one.) Everyone else hangs back.

We meet and we determine for now that everyone is cool. You are out there about 2 days ahead of us. You invite us into your camp. It is 3pm gets dark at 10. I radio the guys. (I am making this easier in that somehow we are not with our families)


SOME background on us.
All of us are accomplished woodsmen who have been hunting, fishing, and trapping, since childhood. The oldest is 43 the youngest is 33. One is very creative when it comes to fabrication and fixing things, 2 are carpenters, and the last is well versed in many trades. I am leaving other info out about background and what we have with us until it is asked of me or needed.






Oh ya the last guys 10 to 12 we passed a day or two ago were not friendly.

Let’s discuss what happens next.

Just for clarity's sake..you left out Sarge, I'm assuming he's with our group and you just skipped him accidentally..yes? no?

How many are in your group?

I want to talk with you and your guys about the "unfriendlies" What direction did they seem to be moving? What kind of firepower did they have? Did they have an overall appearance of competence in the woods? I'm already prepared to trust your judgement on the third question, the first two aren't judgement based questions.

I also want to discuss what we can offer each other as a merged group. For one obvious reason, the unfriendlies have us outnumbered as separate groups, if push comes to shove.

Another obvious reason, six rabbits by themselves don't make much of a meal for a group, but make a good contribution to a larger group meal.

I think these last two posts could almost be a separate thread, or at least we can do a little more group definition before getting into this too much

Yes Sarge is there. I was kind of directing it has initial post.

There are 4 of us total. The “unfriendlys” were at the last road 10 miles behind where we ditched the trucks. They were looting a gas station. They seem mildly armed some shot guns A couple hunting rifles. I think an AK or some Chinese nock off. They saw us and all our gear for sure. We ditched the trucks in cover and hit the weeds before they caught up. They were pretty busy loading up potato chips and cigs.

We know this area pretty well. And as you can see we have a ton of stuff with us. We can get into the particulars later. We are making our way to the lake where we are going to wait it out. When we were younger we would catch the crap out of walleye and perch in it.

The rabbits, ya it was going to be enough for us. We have some canned food but when opportunity shows itself. Keep the cans shoot the rabbits. But I see you have some berries and other things How about some meat to go along with it?

I want the input of volwest and wareagle about the unfriendlies...I'm a big fan of pre-emptive strikes... and I probably want to discuss a long term, fortified group shelter with the tradespeople in your group. If we've been there two days, I'm pretty sure I'll have some meat and/or fish as well.

Our plan was to make our way to the lake. And build a permanent shelter. That area provides us with a lot of resources. And there is some high ground on the north side of the lake we were planning on building on. You all are welcome to pack up and come along. We could use some hands to get the cabin built. And with this many people we could easily build more then one before it get too cold. Here is a bit of info. I am one of the carpenters. Ask away. Also Trax you seam to be the groups mouth piece. Or we are the only ones bored right now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ryaninmichigan

Ask away. Also Trax you seam to be the groups mouth piece. Or we are the only ones bored right now.

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No denying I'm mouthy, but I think it's cuz we're the only ones here right now. That's why I mentioned wanting some of the other folks input a while back. I don't think that group "pecking order" or whatever you want to call it has really been determined yet. I was just throwing in thoughts off the top of my head. What seems to be priority, kind of thing. If I don't do this, I have to log off and do real work, which involves directing the lives of people who are doing what they're doing for a paycheck. This is better, lol.

How long are we expecting this disaster to last? Are we going to be out there through winter? I’m having fun reading but right now I’m doing what I would be doing in that scenario ….quietly observing

I've been making the assumption that this is something we should be doing some long term planning for, possibly months. I don't know why I was doing that, I just was....maybe that says something about me.

No one wants to say anything about the other thread I started on this? hmmmm.....

I've always tended to 'take up slack', which is to say I do the things that others don't want to do. I let people and their personalities work themselves out, and I don't participate in the inevitable politics of the group. As long as there is an established goal, and a plan, you can assign me anything, as long as the good of the group is served.

However, if everyone is trying to be the Alpha, and there is no goal and no plan due to the infighting, then you'd have to count me out - I'll take my chances alone.

A.) Where's law Enforcement? Townies looting gas stations implies TEOTWAWKI! How much coffee do we have? Trax is really hard to deal with in the morning until he gets that 1st cup into him.:rolleyes: The reason the question about the Townies is to ask if we shoot them 1st are we in deep Kim-Chee? In a survival situation you can hide out for awhile, but sooner or later somebody's gonna find you.

B.) Maybe the Townies were just stocking up? Where's VW, we can send him out to talk to them, find out where their heads are at, find out if their guns are loaded.:rolleyes:

C.) I would suggest holding off on any course of action until RiM's family gets to camp as they might have some intelligent input since Rim Said he was the "dumb" one;)

D.) What's the weather doing, and what season is it? E.) What's our camp like, are we hidden? RiM's group seemed to have stumbled right on us.

F.) How do we keep Norm from snoring and giving away our position? Maybe this could solve our "meat" problem for a bit, kill 2 birds with one round, as long as WE doesn't find out...:eek:

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Originally Posted by Fog_Harbor

However, if everyone is trying to be the Alpha, and there is no goal and no plan due to the infighting, then you'd have to count me out - I'll take my chances alone.

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I don't think that's a concern, people seem ready to recognize other people's leadership for the most part, 'tis part ofwhy I brought up the piece about making sure the person wants the job first! But I do agree with your point, if that was what a group amounted to, I'd probably slip quietly out the "back door".

#1 How far did you drive before you ditched the trucks? How far from the unfriendlies?

#2 Did you notice the unfriendlies vehicles? Full size autos? 4 wheelers? Atvs?

#3 How much gas does your group have?

#4 That's a nice offer on the lake, we need to take a look as to ensure security.

#5 Sarge's group has women, yours does not. Agree right now that there will be no improper advances to the women in our group. If they want to take up with you, fine, if you force it, we will be digging graves. For you.

#6 We shake hands, all of us. This is the only honorable contract, we abide by it. If we have any disputes, they will not be poo poo'd.

#7 RiM, don't give me the BS that you are the dumbest, as of right now you are the rep. for your group.

#8 Let's have a cup of coffee, and tell us any of the latest news.


Oh, I'm only the woodcutter. VM, WE, here are my notes.

A. This is it, I have everything I could carry of value with me. I do not expect to go home ever again.

B. Sure he can head out and talk to them. Not me, they had guns and did not seem to care about what they are doing.

C. I radioed the guys they are at your camp with me.

D. It is mid August fall will be here in 6 weeks.

E. Can’t answer that one.

Nobody needs to go out and talk to these bozo's.

We will have two person, 3 hour sentry's until the final destination is secured.

All persons must stand sentry duty, hunters get first watch as you need to get up early and get us meat.

Anyone have a good pair of bino's?


Oh wait a minute, I'm the freak'n woodcutter. Sarge, here are my notes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FVR

#1 How far did you drive before you ditched the trucks? How far from the unfriendlies?

#2 Did you notice the unfriendlies vehicles? Full size autos? 4 wheelers? Atvs?

#3 How much gas does your group have?

#4 That's a nice offer on the lake, we need to take a look as to ensure security.

#5 Sarge's group has women, yours does not. Agree right now that there will be no improper advances to the women in our group. If they want to take up with you, fine, if you force it, we will be digging graves. For you.

#6 We shake hands, all of us. This is the only honorable contract, we abide by it. If we have any disputes, they will not be poo poo'd.

#7 RiM, don't give me the BS that you are the dumbest, as of right now you are the rep. for your group.

#8 Let's have a cup of coffee, and tell us any of the latest news.


Oh, I'm only the woodcutter. VM, WE, here are my notes.

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1. We had another ten miles till we dumped the trucks. Down an old logging road. They are pretty concealed but someone will find them at some point

2. 4 trucks all fourwheel drive anywhere from new to 10 ten years old.

3. the trucks still have some, we have around 50 gallons with us, including what’s in the four wheelers.

4. Cool look all you want. We will be pulling out in the morning.

5. We are honorable men who hold the women in our family very high. I have been know to intervene when I seen some red neck decide to slap his around in my sight. So deal. I will treat them as I would my sister and include all the protection that comes with.

6. I do what I say and I take a hand shack as contract.

7. I am not the dumbest, Just the dumbest to walk up on an unknown number of people alone. I watched for 30 minutes before I made my self known

8. I like mine strong. Let me tell you what we saw on the way in………..

well rim my lrrp knew you guys was a coming along time ago..
trax i agree with a council it is important to get the opinions of you seasoned members
in this scenario are we all familiar with our geography or were some on the road, need to know where each member stands on the familiarity of the area ie hunting fishing scouting wild edibles ect..

fvr i respect your wisdom, as we have chewed some of the same dirt so i will be looking to you for your help you can talk and split wood at the same time eh?