Hunter shoots bear in its Den!

I spend $105 a year for a sportsmen's gold license. $275 gator tags. $65 for additional tags. I pay $50 per decal for off road vehicles. All of that goes toward management of the lands.

Lots of people want to impose their own morality on the lives of others. I know some bass fisherman who think using live bait is wrong. So THEY should not use live bait.

If the biologist that is assigned to recommend management rules says its a legal method then it is legal. All those fees I pay go toward conservation efforts.

I hunt for recreation. If I needed to hunt for food I would have to poach. The rules are stacked way too much in favor of the animals. I choose good eating animals so I guess I am a recreational meat hunter.

I wouldn't have shot that bear. But, I got no criticism for a guy who appears to have followed all applicable rules.

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Originally Posted by BENESSE

There goes Darwin's Survival Of The Fittest theory, down the crapper.
It just stupefies me to want to kill an animal especially because it's smarter, stronger faster, and better all around. To think...what a magnificent creature...I wanna to kill it! What kind of place in a person's mind and soul does that come from?

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Hmmm... kind of like the chickens, cows, and pigs, etc that we eat every day.... Interesting analogy. You see the BEST of those species are where the "Breeding stock" comes from. Good point.... except when they have reached the end of their usefulness, they too are sent to slaughter.

I just find it extremely odd that such different perceptions can be applied to domestic and wild animals. It's OK for one, but not the other.:gagged:

It is to me at least as clear of an example of double standards as can be exhibited. This is OK/Good for this_____ but not this_____.
Oh BTW My vote is the only one in the undecided category. I can see valid points on both sides, yet have been arguing in favor of the guy almost all along. I wouldn't do what he did for my own various reasons, of which there are several, yet see nothing actually wrong with what was done. All laws were in fact followed.

I just thought I would reveal where my vote actually fell, as I am done with this argument/Debate. I cannot fathom how it is OK for that and worse to be done to "Domesticated" animals. Yet for a wild animal it is an entirely different set of standards. The Hypocrisy is astounding. Domestic Chickens are grabbed in the wee hours of the morning when they are shipped to the slaughterhouse, while they are on the roost. The chicken house is lit with nothing but red lights during this process so as to NOT disturb the sleeping chickens. Chickens cannot defend themselves near as well as that bear either. Yet it is OK for one but not the other. Pick any meat you eat and the story is pretty much as bad as that.... just different circumstances. It really makes me wonder how many have ever seen the total process of the life cycle of the animals we eat every day. Or ever been on a farm where people raise the animals they slaughter to put on their own table. I've seen it done, I've seen members of my family go out and get the best chicken in the coop because company was coming. The neck wrung, the carcass dressed out and cooked.

If you've ever watched "Ole Yeller" you have seen the free range hogs... that were for all intents and purposes "Wild" or Feral. There is not one bit of difference between that and hunting today.... except that there are more laws involved, "Rules, standards, and Ethics". Meat is meat. If you eat it it is not so pretty and ethical in any sense of the word. You go out, find the desired animal, kill it, clean it, and eat it. Fishermen do the same thing with "Trophy" catches..... but they are only fish after all.

American Indians respected ALL life. Everything that grew and lived sacrificed it's life so that we could live. Plants, animals, fish all were equally appreciated.... They ALL died so we could live. Just my opinion, but the further removed we become from the Earth, the more artificial our attitude towards all living things become..... Oh it's just a tomato, soybean, rabbit, chicken, deer, bear.... Yet they all live and died so that we can live. The Great beasts were honored with stories of their existence.... Trophy Hunters are able to do this too with the animals PRESENCE as well. In a sense these animals are immortalized. Yet no one sees this aspect.

Someone will eat that meat. It might be a Nursing Home, a homeless shelter, school, or hospital, or the hunter, his friends and family.... but someone will eat it I am fairly certain. The ONLY thing used to determine the "Trophy status" of a bear is the dried skull, and it's (the Bears) measurements. They have the weight, so no need to save the meat to waste it, it can be harvested and used. Someone please tell me that I am not the only one to see the double standard here between "Domestic" and "Wild" animals. This is why I have argued so long in defense of that hunter. OK to grab a sleeping chicken to slaughter, but heaven forbid the same is done with a bear that was NOT asleep.

Hey Poco,

I see the double standard but I take it a step farther and apply it to plants too. Life is life and a plant is alive too, pretty crazy eh.

I grew up on a farm and we ate goat, mutton, beef, chicken, pork and wild game. Our stock was treated better than the stock on large farms but in the end dead is dead.
I blame it all on walt disney. LOL

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Originally Posted by Pocomoonskyeyes3

I just find it extremely odd that such different perceptions can be applied to domestic and wild animals. It's OK for one, but not the other.:gagged:
OK to grab a sleeping chicken to slaughter, but heaven forbid the same is done with a bear that was NOT asleep.

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No, it's not OK, at least not by me!!! That's exactly why I became a vegetarian 15 years ago.
I wouldn't feel right about engaging in this type of discussion if I made excuses for my double standard.

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Originally Posted by randyt

Hey Poco,

I see the double standard but I take it a step farther and apply it to plants too. Life is life and a plant is alive too, pretty crazy eh.

I grew up on a farm and we ate goat, mutton, beef, chicken, pork and wild game. Our stock was treated better than the stock on large farms but in the end dead is dead.
I blame it all on walt disney. LOL

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I totally agree. If it weren't for me eating things that once lived (Turnips or turtles makes no difference) I would be dead. All are respected.... soybeans to sheep, Dill or duck, beet or bear, greens or goose..... all have lived and given up their existence so that I may continue mine. No Randy not crazy, not at all. Just respectful.

This is an issue I have. If you elevate animals to the same level as humans then you devalue the life of your fellow man. This is the root of eugenics, euthanasia and abortion.

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Originally Posted by BENESSE

No, it's not OK, at least not by me!!! That's exactly why I became a vegetarian 15 years ago.
I wouldn't feel right about engaging in this type of discussion if I made excuses for my double standard.

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B, you know that you and I disagree on the meat eating, and hunting stuff, but I have to say that I respect you for standing by your beliefs. I think you are the only one in this thread, that has a reason for criticizing this guy. I don't know that I agree with that reason....but I admit that you have one! LOL

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Originally Posted by klickitat

This is an issue I have. If you elevate animals to the same level as humans then you devalue the life of your fellow man. This is the root of eugenics, euthanasia and abortion.

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I agree, that's why I blame it on walt disney.

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Originally Posted by randyt

I agree, that's why I blame it on walt disney.

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Bambi burgers........MMmmmmm.:shifty:

I used to hunt. I quit when I shot a 4 point buck and couldn't find it. I felt if I was incapable of bringing home what I killed, then I shouldn't hunt. I found that deer later when the vultures were circling, and the meat was no longer edible. It had ran away and circled back almost on it's own trail, laid down,hid and died. The blood trail had ended not long after it had run. The brush was so thick I couldn't follow it and gave up thinking it was only wounded and would recover. It didn't, and I no longer hunt. However if I have to I will take a shot at another animal to eat and make every effort I can to retrieve it. But only if I have to. Just my opinion but tracking has to be the hardest thing to learn about Hunting. That was the only animal I ever hunted that I couldn't find, after I had killed it. THAT is why I don't hunt now. Not the Laws or Ethics of anyone else, just my own.

that's all part of the cycle, nothing goes to waste in nature. the vultures have to live too. in my opinion their life is just as important as the next animal. something would have made use of that animal.

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Originally Posted by Klickitat

This is the root of eugenics, euthanasia and abortion.

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I'm sorry but I don't agree with you at all on that. I watched my dad die a slow, long, agonizing death from cancer. I assure you if I could have helped him and gotten away with it I would have. He wanted to go on his terms and in the end he had to go on legal terms. Not everyone will agree with me and that's fine but defining your demise with dignity has its place. And it has nothing to do with elevating animals anywhere. It has to do with the deep abiding love and respect I had for a great man and the desire to end long standing suffering that simply didn't need to happen when the outcome was quite apparent......end rant.

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Originally Posted by BENESSE

There goes Darwin's Survival Of The Fittest theory, down the crapper.

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Not at all....the bear has reached the pinnacle of its maturity when its become record- class. After reaching the pinnacle- its most likely all down hill from there! When an animal is of this catagory its pretty much about to be past its breeding prime...this animal undoubtably spread its seed for many years before meeting this hunter

Why didn't I think of that?!

You probably could think too well perched way up there on your soap box. :innocent:

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Originally Posted by Rick

You probably could think too well perched way up there on your soap box. :innocent:

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I was gonna guess.....'cuz she's a girl.
(Snicker, snicker.)

For a trophy, no. If it was one that was killing my or my friend's livestock, maybe. It would have to be doing one heck of a lot of damage (and be one heck of a lot smarter than the ones around here) before I would even consider killing one asleep in it's den.

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Originally Posted by Pocomoonskyeyes3

I used to hunt. I quit when I shot a 4 point buck and couldn't find it. I felt if I was incapable of bringing home what I killed, then I shouldn't hunt. I found that deer later when the vultures were circling, and the meat was no longer edible. It had ran away and circled back almost on it's own trail, laid down,hid and died. The blood trail had ended not long after it had run. The brush was so thick I couldn't follow it and gave up thinking it was only wounded and would recover. It didn't, and I no longer hunt. However if I have to I will take a shot at another animal to eat and make every effort I can to retrieve it. But only if I have to. Just my opinion but tracking has to be the hardest thing to learn about Hunting. That was the only animal I ever hunted that I couldn't find, after I had killed it. THAT is why I don't hunt now. Not the Laws or Ethics of anyone else, just my own.

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I can easily respect that.

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Originally Posted by Rick

You probably could think too well perched way up there on your soap box. :innocent:

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Ever since I slipped off of my soap box and landed on my a$$, I learned to just stay put and work from there. That's where I be posting from.
Now, any time people feel challenged in their belief, instead of facing it head on, some (you know who you are, and so do I) like to dance around and deflect. Answer questions that weren't asked, and say things just to hear themselves talk. Well, fine...whatever floats your boat is OK with me. But let's not kid ourselves. Just cause I cant see you doesn't mean I'm not on to you.
Yeah, you too 2D, and you know it! (who loves you baby?)

Would you look at that?! I said soap box. I meant pedestal. A thousand pardons.