Knife/Survival Knife Info.

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Originally Posted by Leighman

I'm not a CS "hater" and I used to really like their knives back in the day (early 1980's) when they offered all of 5-6 different products. They were definitely of excellent quality then but IMO, more than a little hype these days.

I've seen all their videos and was not really impressed only because ANY decently made fixed blade (of comparable length/thickness, of course) should be able to pass all of these tests.

Fortunately, there are comparable offerings these days that are superior to many CS products and in a similar price range (RAT Cutlery for example).

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I respectfully disagree that. I do agree that any knife should be able to cut para-cord and things like that, that's just a matter of sharpness, but when they repeatedly run the knives through car doors, and the tips show no signs of damage, I think that's something that most knives cannot do. They also cut copper tube over and over with one part of the Recon tanto (Carbon V) and then the guy shaves his arm with the same part of the knife he was cutting the tube with. They also chop a silver dollar in half and the blade again shows no sign of damage. Now When they stick the knife into the boards and then put all there weight on it, I can see another full tang knife standing up to the abuse just as well, but the knife flex tests are amazing. The Cold Steel Tanto was flexible enough to double over on itself withough breaking! I think that Cold Steel knives are very very high quality knives. I've also heard that RAT knives are high quality, but I've never seen them tested or handled them.

i think rat cutlery and coldsteel are both great knife companies. i have a rc4 and srk and love them both.

I will probably get skinned for this but........
Those cheap, almost disposable knives do have a place in our lives!!
I first learned this lesson as a youngster fishing off a pier at my grandfather's place in Grand Isle, Louisiana.
After losing about 3 $20.00 Buck Knives (I was only a kid). I started keeping a couple junk knives in my tackle box. Then found myself looking for them for other reasons. Now, I keep several cheap folding knives in my vehicle, tackle box, boat, and car.
Nothing wrong with having a good knlfe at the ready, but having some cheap ones for use over water, or for abusing, is definitly worth the few bucks you will pay for them.

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Originally Posted by Blood Groove

For any other knife company I'd agree with you. But Cold Steel really prides there knives on the toughness and they say you can return a blade no matter what with a receipt of purchase. I mean they released a video, Solid Proof of them beating the crap out of there knives, stabbing through car doors, and all there other tests, and they show that they hold up great to it. So in this particular case, with a Cold Steel knife, I don't think that they'd really mind. I am surprised that the Recon Tanto Broke like that though. There must have been some factory error, because I've heard nothing but good things about this knife until now.

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I sent an email to Cold Steel asking them what they thought of the practice of batoning. The following is the reply I just received from them.

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-----Original Message-----
From:[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:34 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Broken blade

I am wondering. Do you at Cold Steel recommend the practice of batoning a
knife blade through a piece of wood? I have never done it but have seen it
done both in person and on T.V. I think this would be hazardous to the
blade and may break it. I have always use a hatchet for heavy work on wood
but several of my friends feel it is perfectly safe to baton a blade.

I thank you in advance for your insight in this matter.

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Reply from Cold Steel:

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No it is not safe or recommended. Even though the Cold Steel is built strong you could still break the blade or chip part of the blade or worse, chip a piece of the blade off and have it shoot into your eye!

In a survival situation, would be the only time I would baton a
knife into wood.

Have a good day!

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So why take to chance of ruining a good knife. Use the right tool for the job. A knife is meant for cutting. A machette, hatchet or axe is used for chopping wood.

I have used many knives to baton with and learned a few things along the way. Most knife makers will tell you that their knives will never chip on wood, that being said, most times when a blade chips during battoning, it happens on the last cut through the wood when the knife sometimes goes into the ground and hits rocks. Also, never hit the knife with anything but wood, that might be obvious but I've seen guys do it with hammers and chipped the hell out of a good knife.
Now I wouldnt say it works as good as an ax, but to me its easier to carry a folding saw and a knife in the woods rather than an ax.
Anyway, i guess my point is that there is nothing wrong with battoning through wood, just be smart about it.

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Originally Posted by klkak

So why take to chance of ruining a good knife. Use the right tool for the job. A knife is meant for cutting. A machette, hatchet or axe is used for chopping wood.

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Agreed.

However there are a number of quality fixed blades out there that will stand up to the rigors of of any number of unexpected outdoor situations to include batoning and things you wouldn't normally subject a knife to.

Of course, no single cutting tool is the end-all-be-all but when space/weight is at a premium I try to choose a blade that is versatile enough to cover more than just cutting.

To date, I have had excellent success (batoning, chopping, digging, etc) with a Gerber LMF II, RAT, Ontario RTAK series, Bark River, and Scrapyard knives.

Blood Groove, as a "knife nut" I appreciate spirited and good natured debate and while I respect your opinion on CS's proof videos I can't help but find them to be more of a marketing tool than anything else. Of cdourse, I expect nothing less form any company wanting to sell any product.

Back on topic....

I would like to hear of any similar experiences by members who have used their blades only to find out they didn't measure up (for whatever reason).

So im asking my father or mother for a USMC Ka-bar knife, 7 inch blade, leather handle, plain edge non-serrated. I actually have a few questions about this tool. First, I wanted to know if the knife had a full tang, or at least a 3/4 tang, becuase I plan on it being able to take quite a beating when im in the forest. Also, I wanted to know if all USMC leather handle knives are the same, in terms of the blade coatings and how the tang is placed in ( I have seen a ka-bar leather handle knife with a handle that was off centered and above the blade). And lastly, say a ka-bar knife was purchased from Cabelas.com, will it come in the box that has blueprints of the knife itself? Thanks for your time. And also, how heavy is this knife?

http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/ka-bar.htm Copy and paste this link.

Kabar info.

They are full tang knives.

They do take a beating.

The leather handles last if you take care of them.

The New Age Kabars are just as tough as the old Kabars, IMHO the keep a better edge.

But, all Kabars are not equal.

Since you are in Va. Beach, if you want to go the old route, get to one of the Army Navy stores around the base and look for a MKII. Again, IMHO, they are the best Kabars ever made, but nowdays, they will cost you and they will be used.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...nkV/Kabars.jpg

Cool, thanks. I will check out that store.

If your folks are buy it for you, most Navy Exchanges carry them.

Jericho, why do you want a 7" blade? But if you're fixed on a 7 incher, then take a look at the BK7 now called the KABAR Becker - Combat Utility Knife, 7" Carbon Steel Blade. It has a full tang and you can put a fishing kit (or whatever) in the handle. This knife is well known for it's toughness. If I remember right, search one of Mac's posts for more details and pic's.

http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/st...l.html?s=KABK7


Found it for you, it's post 824 here (screen name ("Pict") http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...t=1297&page=42

I truly hope that all the folk who think batoning is a safe and practical practice never find themselves breaking their blade.

That ka-bar Becker knife looks pretty good, but for some reason im just liking the leather handled ka-bar knife better. Im not one to care about looks much but I just have to many knives with handles like that. The only reason I want a 7 inch blade is just for two reasons- one is the fact that there are a lot of "security" problems in my area, and a 7 inch blade is more intimidating to threats. Also I need a knife that will act as a draw knife for tillering the belly on my bows, because I can grab the other end of the knife with cloth and just use it so. I could have gotten away with a 5 incher knife, it's just I needed to feel what it's like to use a seven incher. How would a full tang allow room for small fishing and survival equipment, that is wierd but cool.

I was thinking about conditioning the leather handle with neats-foot oil from a couple deer hooves I have stashed away, would that be effective?

I have seen one in NEX stores, but it has the "iraqi freedom" inscribed into the knife near the blood grove, if all else fails, I will check it out.

Take a look at the picture, you just unscrew the sides and there are small hollowed out sections.

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Originally Posted by klkak

I truly hope that all the folk who think batoning is a safe and practical practice never find themselves breaking their blade.

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"Safe" is somewhat subjective if you are referring to the personal injury associated with batoning.

More than once, I have sent small shards of steel flying from a steel/iron wedge (using the flat of a splitting maul) while attempting to separate seasoned hickory. This has long been considered common practice and before the advent of gas/diesel splitters it was the ONLY practice. Of course, eye protection is prudent any time the steel meets wood.

From a strictly "practical" standpoint, I would not tempt sacrificing the integrity (much less advocate) the integrity of my "lone" fixed blade while batoning when the use of a simple saw blade (i.e. Leatherman Wave, Victorinox, etc) would accomplish much of the same and with much fewer calories spent!

That said, there are manufacturers whose blades I would not hesitate to push to extremes. Busse/Scrapyard/Swamprat being three whose heat treat/blade steel being as tough as anything I've encountered in 30+ years of knife using.

klkak, I am not arguing that a knife (ANY knife of any steel by any maker) can take the place of an axe, hatchet, or machete. You win that debate hands down and I am in full agreement with you on that matter.

My argument is that if a person is forced to rely on "only" one fixed blade knife for something more than slicing chores and bushcraft, the blade that he/she chooses best have a darned good track record for being durable.

In my own experience, Cold Steel hasn't been one of 'em (I've owned/used 7-8 of them over the years, both fixed & folders) and the reason I mentioned my Recon Tanto's shortcomings (and other knives marketed by other companies) in my original posting.

CS produces some "decent" knives but I don't feel they are as durable/dependable as many like-priced competitors out there.

Heck, I'm no "steel junkie"' and I could not tell you the difference between 1095 and SR-77 (until it comes to sharpening, perhaps) but I know what has worked for me and what has not.

I do enjoy "knife debate" and as a "Noob" my intentions are not to offend anyone here. I hope to stay around long enough to learn a lot and maybe contribute a little. ;)

As I said. Use the right tool for the job.

If you advocate anything else then you are not showing good judgment.