So What good is a "right to bear arms" when you can not bear them? I think you are jsut dying to arest someone for inducing a panic.. I could do it are here. If fact I have.
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So What good is a "right to bear arms" when you can not bear them? I think you are jsut dying to arest someone for inducing a panic.. I could do it are here. If fact I have.
Hey some one mentioned getting the fn-57 what are the rules about carring concealed. Also Glacer Sfety slugs...oooooooo. Im glad were friends...(looks around scared)right everyone...(in a sheepish voice)dont shoot a minor right? But back to the my question i know that according to the geneva vonvention both the 57 and the glacer safety have some problems arent even crimminals protected by what kind of ammunition you use or are hoo point and glacer rounds all fair play? Just wonderin.
Ryan by the way if you dont care about caring concealed and intimidation is your objective why dont introduce you to some other fine products like this M-60 and M-240 (in best sails man voice) nothin says dont mess with me and my Constitutional rights like a 7.62x51 machine gun!:D
Some states have a law called "brandishing", Ryan. That usually refers to open carry. Most states do allow open carry. Here us a link with a map that shows which do and which don't:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry
Of course, that's for handguns. Shotguns are a different matter. I think Indiana requires it to be unloaded and in a case for carry.
open carry in the great state of Michigan is fine. At least it has been. I would not carry into a school or church. BUt I have had many a sherilf roll up on me carring my shotgun and they did not "draw down on me"
While walking? Not here.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
I guess is depends on where you're walking.:D
Here is a pretty good wiki on CCW.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_(by_state)
Rick, that wiki says that Ohio is an Anomalous Open Carry State, which means, In these states, open carry is generally lawful, but the state may lack preemption or there may be other significant restrictions. The words "other significant restrictions" means in Ohio and the ORC that if you cause someone to believe that you have a firearm and it causes or in duces panic then an arrest can be made. In Ohio you cannot transport a loaded firearm, the laws says that if in your car the firearm must be transported seperate from the ammo, so if you have a gun and your going to the range and the gun is in the back seat the ammo must be in the trunk, if the gun is in the trunk the ammo must be in the glove box of the car. Makes no sense to me but that's the law, now CCW is different you can carry how you like as long as its concealed and your permit is on your person while carrying. When they did those walks here in Ohio the firearms strapped to their sides had no ammo in them, it was to show they wanted ccw when the governor wanted no ccw, it worked we have ccw here.
Do not use wiki for your info on laws, find out the laws of your state from local or state police agancies, they will be happy to provide you with everything you need. Most agencies like the ccw laws. Wiki can is often wrong on laws of the state because anyone can join and post to wikipedia.
Shotguns are not covered under ccw in any state.
Ryan,
For you to say you think I just wanna lock someone up for inducing panic is wrong, you don't know me or what I think. But as a Deputy Sheriff here in Ohio the laws the law and I will enforce it, that's my job. I don't wanna lock up anyone if I don't have to, trust me on that way too much paperwork, but it is my job and in Ohio you can carry in plain site, but it will scare people and that is inducing panic. I would draw down on anyone with a firearm if I'm called to investigate, its called officer safety. So yeah when I come upon someone with a gun I draw my weapon, and someone walking down the street with a shotgun I would do it too. If they have a ccw I wouldn't know but the law says they have to tell the police officer they have a weapon, and they do be it a traffic stop or just in casual conversation. I don't care about that, it's their right and they're legally allowed to carry that way so I got no problem with it. Never had a problem with a ccw holder not telling me they were carrying, in fact everyone I have encountered has told me that right off the bat while producing their permit, I looked at it and handed it back.
Here's what's happened in Ohio. Ohioans allowed to carry concealed handguns no longer must display them or lock them up while traveling in vehicles under a state law. Another change in Ohio's gun laws, one that forbids cities and villages to enact or enforce gun regulations stricter than the state's. It is only for ccw owners. Concealed-weapon license holders may place their guns inside closed purses or bags as long as the bags are secured with a snap, buckle, or zipper, and the bags must be kept in plain sight.
Here are Ohio CCW LAWS (Each State Is Different)
Applicants must be living in the United States legally
Has been a resident of the county or the adjacent county for at least thirty (30) days
If it is determined resident is legally living in the United States but has not met the county residency requirement, the Sheriff shall not deny application but shall hold application until residency is met
Applicant is not able to apply for or renew a concealed carry license if under suspension
Sheriff shall accept applications at least fifteen (15) hours a week and post notice of hours that applications will be accepted. The hours must be during normal business hours
There is a ten ($10) dollars increase to ($55.00) in license fee if the person has lived in Ohio for 5 consecutive years or more. There is a ten ($10) dollars increase to ($79.00) if the person has lived in Ohio less than 5 consecutive years
Sheriff must obtain at least four (4) fingerprints of applicant’s fingers. NOTE! The Sheriff SHALL still consider expunged or sealed records (No change from original law)
The license is valid for five (5) years of issuance if issued after 3/14/07 those before that date are only good for four (4) years
If license is denied, the denial will be heard in the county in which the Sheriff serves
License renewal cannot be earlier than ninety (90) days nor later than thirty (30) days for renewal
Person/driver/occupant has duty to inform law enforcement officer or motor carrier officer that they are armed when approached in vehicle
Licensee must keep hands in plain sight at all times while in motor vehicle and armed and do as directed by law enforcement officer
DO NOT attempt to remove weapon from holster, box or compartment unless directed to do so by law enforcement officer
DO NOT knowingly grasp, attempt to grasp or touch loaded weapon while in vehicle unless directed to do so by law enforcement officer
DO NOT exit vehicle unless ordered to do so by law enforcement officer
DO NOT fail to comply with all directions of law enforcement officer
Penalties have been enhanced for convictions as follows: Carrying Concealed Weapon 2923.12 (B)(1) and (2)
Carrying a Concealed Weapon 2923.12 (E)(3) and (4) will result in a suspension for one (1) year
Carrying a Concealed Weapon 2923.12 (B)(4)
Improperly Handling a firearm in a motor vehicle will result in a suspension for two (2) years
Method of Carry
On person
Open Carry - No Change: Firearms may be openly carried in cars only with a CCW permit/license.
(Problem here is Ohio law does not prohibit open carry. While the Ohio Supreme Court’s recent decision did not explicitly recognize that open carry was a right, they did recognize that the Ohio Constitution’s right to keep and bear arms provision was an individual right. There is a saying here that “the perfect is the enemy of the good.” What this means is that insisting on perfection sometimes means that if we insist that something be perfect—whether it is a law, a gun, or a person—we may lose out on the opportunity to have something less than perfect—but better than what we have now. Ohio’s new law is like that. It is not perfect—but it was as good a law as we could get right now. Insisting on the perfect law would have meant no change at all—and law-abiding Ohioans would have had no way to get a permit to carry concealed. It’s not a perfect law, but it is better than what Ohioans had before. I dunno, our gun laws are real weird here.)Concealed – NO Change
In motor vehicle - In holster attached to person (plain sight removed)
2. In a closed case, bag, box or other container in plain sight that has a lid, cover or a closing mechanism with a zipper, snap or buckle, and which lid, cover or closing mechanism must be opened to gain access to handgun
3. Securely encased by being stored in a closed, locked glove compartment or in a case that is locked (plain sight removed)
4. Suspended licenses will all be entered into the Law Enforcement Automated Data System
5. An arrest for disqualifying offense 2923.128(A)(1)(a) suspension begins at arrest or charge
6. A conviction for disqualifying offense 2923.128(A)(2)(a) suspension begins on date of conviction
7. Sheriff shall notify licensee in writing of ending date of one (1) or two (2) year suspension
8. Sheriff shall return license when suspension is over unless license has expired during suspension, licensee may not reapply until suspension is over.
9. Law Enforcement Officer are exempt from all Carrying Concealed Weapons Laws, including transportation in a motor vehicle and carrying in prohibited places if:
10. Officer is qualified peace officer employed in Ohio
11. Re-qualification (weapon) requirement is met
12. Officer is authorized by agency head
Qualified RETIRED Peace Officer enjoy safe rights as Concealed Cary license holder if following is met:
Has an Agency issued retired ID Card and has retired in good standing (no mental instability)
Person was authorized to or participated in prevention, detection, investigation, prosecution, incarceration and had statutory authority to arrest
Receives bona fide retirement benefits
Successfully completes re-qualification annually
Must have certification from agency which includes retiree’s name, Agency’s name, date course completed and states valid for one (1) year.
Forbidden Carry Zones:
(concealed or open)-Police stations, Sheriffs’ offices, Highway Patrol posts
-Premises controlled by the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Identification and Investigation.
-Buildings owned by the state or any political subdivision.
-Any Federal Property (post offices, etc)
-School safety zones
-Any room serving alcoholic beverages for onsite consumption
-Any establishment with a D6 liquor permit selling packaged alcohol not for consumption (Sunday liquor sales)
-Correctional institutions or other detention facilities.
-Airport terminals or commercial airplanes.
-Institutions for the care of mentally ill persons.
-Courthouses or buildings in which a courtroom is located.
-Universities, unless locked in a motor vehicle or in the process of being locked in a motor vehicle.
-Places of worship, unless the place of worship permits otherwise.
-Child day-care centers.
-Private Property / Business When Prohibited by Owner or Posted
-Banks, Savings & Loans, and any other monetary institutions
Be advised this does not constitute legal advice from me or anyone else here. This is Ohio and all States have different Laws, check your state for your laws.
Ryan, check this out on Michigan Laws. Open Carry in cars only with a permit.
http://www.opencarry.org/mi.html
I don't know if this is true but I found this, just be careful if you carry open anywhere. Hate to see something happen. But I do agree that you have the right to keep and bear arms.
Another problem here that I do not agree with, a CCW permit from any other state is not valid in Ohio, meaning you can only carry CCW in Ohio with an Ohio CCW permit. I think if your ok in one state you should be okay in all.
But in Ohio a citizen can carry a stun gun or tazer, in Michigan you can't.
I don't understand that at all.
Are stun guns legal?
MICHIGAN: Illegal The Michigan Penal Code Act 328 of 1931. Chapter 750.224a Portable device or weapon directing electrical current, impulse, wave, or beam; sale or possession prohibited; testing. (1) A person shall not sell, offer for sale, or possess in this state a portable device or weapon from which an electric current, impulse, wave or beam is designed to incapacitate temporarily, injure, or kill. (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a felony. SUMMARY: Possession and sales of Stunning Devices are banned in Michigan.
Personally I think all our weapons laws need to be revamped and updated to fit the times.
Here's some info on CCW reciprocity laws in the U.S. http://www.handgunlaw.us/
Handgun laws are so tricky, most say that Ohio recognizes alot of other state ccw permits but in training we were told only Ohio CCW permits are legal. And the open carry thing is real confusing... I dunno I just do as I'm told.
This is from the top of the web sight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beowulf65
Michigan
Summary
Michigan is a traditional open carry state. Open carry is more common in rural areas. You may NOT open carry in a car without a permit. However, Michigan recognizes the resident permits of all 50 states.
I live a rural area. THat is why I say it is common to open carry here. Not in a car though.
Okay, thanks I was just wondering. So many different laws on guns and carrying them it can get confusing. And most make no sense to me as to why a legal law biding citizen has to go through so much crap to carry a gun. But then I'm just a worker bee and I guess that stuff is way above my pay grade.
Hey! What about a federal law on guns? What d'ya say? Something like..... if you want to carry.....okay. Open or closed.....okay. Don't want to carry.....okay.
Flatlanders and Cheeseheads must play along, too!
Beo I get a dozen different stories about Ohio honoring my CCW. I know a couple of years ago it was a no no. Another relative is a LEO just across the river from WV and he isn't sure. I do like I always have done, I don't carry in Ohio because right now everything is as clear as the river I cross to get there. I am probably wrong but each border area seems to have a different view. I would like to see a national permit honored like a valid driver's license but that will never happen. I have been pulled over once for speeding. We were going in opposite directions and he had to do a flip. I could have hit a few back roads never to be seen by the SP but I pulled over rolled down the driver's window put both hands on top of the wheel and waited on him. When he walked up I told him I had a semi auto 45 on top of my registration and did he want me to get it. No problem, just removed the 45 by the grip with a couple of fingers and placed it on the seat. He went back to his cruiser, ran tags & license wrote a ticket and did ask if I had a permit. I told him if I hadn't he wouldn't have seen it. He didn't bother to even ask for it. No problem with either of us,the way it should be. I didn't pay the ticket anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beowulf65
I carry a 9x18 Baikal IJ-70 Makarov. Ammo is real cheap, and good self defense rounds are available on gunbroker and other sites. Cor-Bon and Hellier both make good stuff, the hellier is more commonly available. Wolf and other cheap ammo is just that, great for practice and very cheap in the unreloadble steel cased versions. It's a smallish gun, bordering on pocket pistol size, but with a bigger wallop than the .32's and .380's. Easy to carry with an empty chamber or safe for cocked and locked too, with an excellent intuitive safety switch.
Not me, just Googled a pic:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/57/21...32ba5ddc37.jpg
Ok found the answer to my question if any one was wondering, hollow points and glaceir safety rounds are legal for personal protection. I thought that since the military was not allowed to use them civilians couldn't use them either.
Do any of you carry a Kel Tec PF 9? What do you think of it? I've read some of the reviews on the web but would like to know what some of the members think. It's next on my list.
Haven't tried it, but like the size for easy concealment. If you like that XD 45 you bought, take a look at the XD 40 in sub compact. Small size with just a bit more punch than the 9.
I also liked the weight (12.7 ounces empty) and the price!! The XD .40 comes in at 20.5 ounces empty...nearly double the weight (sorta, almost). The 9mm is still a respectable round and thought it would make a nice backup or primary where the old .45 is a bit tough to conceal.
The 9 is a fine round for personal defense - I have several. I just remembered that you once said you were looking for a bit more oomph from the 32. I do like the weight of that at 12.7 ounces. I'm sure somebody here has tried the Kel Tech.
You remembered right and the .45 filled the bill on that. Now it's time to find that perfect backup piece.
I like and own the P3AT. I have not tried the PF9. I feel like I looked into it at one point. It is quite flat, though significantly bigger than the P3AT. I want to say that at the time I checked it out (A couple of years ago), it had some reliability issues, but it was a new gun then. They might have smoothed out the wrinkles by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
If you want to go with a 9mm mouse gun, if I were you I would try a Kahr PM9.
Sadly, the PM9 is in the $650+ range. If I'm spending that kind of money it had better be in .223 or something bigger. The Kel Tec is less than $300. Yeah, I know. I'm cheap.
at least you're not aiming for the $200 range, like hi-point compact 9.
If you are looking for a good platform for CC check out the Sig 250. It allows you to change out the frames and slides and swap from 9mm to .357 Sig to .40S&W. It is also available in .45 with the ability to swap out frame grips to go from full sized to compact to sub compact.
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