I read the title as "What can I make with Beer"
Huh huh.
Love the way you want to use it all.
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I read the title as "What can I make with Beer"
Huh huh.
Love the way you want to use it all.
NCO, do you know if reindeer are utilized in the same way white tailed deer are here? I was just wondering if utilization of the animal is still prevalent in Finland or if it's just a few craftsmen left doing it like here.
Rick, could you be a bit more specific/simple with your question. I'm still a little bit behind a language barrier here... utilized in what way?
I appologize rick, if I'm wrong, but I believe he's reffering to the fact that most people hack off the meat and toss the bones and skin of the deer.
Thank you for clarification flandersander!
Of reindeer, I'm not 100% certain. It is mainly the Sami people, (Wiki: Sami people) who herd reindeer. They mainly sell the meat for food industry and restaurants. Most also use few of the animals for their own food and clothing, for tents and so on. At least for those who live in the traditional way they use pretty much all of the animal. Of course, tourists like little trinkets made from reindeer bones...
About Finns, hunters generally take the meat, skin and antlers off a moose or a white tail. Some might use other bones as well for them selves, but usually the bones and some other "left overs" are given to their hunting dogs and in some cases just buried.
I've been pondering that ever since I started tanning LOL. Perhaps I'll sacrifice a skin to some brackish swamp and see what happens. It should tan it theoretically, but I haven't tried it. Sumac leaves are usually used in spring when they are still green, but as long as the tannins haven't been leached out by rain it's definately a possibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by rwc1969
I read a thread on some forum somewhere in all my searching and it looked like the lady used dried leaves and didn't boil anything. just dry leaves, water and dunk the hide. If it started looking weak, add more leaves. Dunno where that was, it's been a while. Acorns should also work. break them open, mash the meat, boil it, and save the water, instead of pouring it out.:thumbs_up:
Thanks, FS. That's what I was asking. Thanks for the answer NCO.
If it preserves bog people for hundreds or thousands of years it ought to preserve a hide.
I noticed a couple light spots on the skin today, grain side, so I scraped with my fingernail and removed a little of the pigment layer that was left. There are a couple larger light spots and it may be because there's some mebrane left, hard to tell really.
But, I looked at the liquor just now and it appears as though it's still a bit dark so
I'll hold off adding more liquor. The skin is darkening up nice though and although kind of uneven and blotchy in spots is starting to look pretty good IMO. It no longer has that grey look.
If the weather was warmer or I had a place to buck and de-hair this other skin I'd bark tan it as well. But, I'll hold off I suppose and try the brain tan come spring.
I went out to hunt today and as soon as I got out of the car I saw a big doe laying smack on the trail, roadkill I think, but it was beat up pretty good skinwise and I had no way of telling how long it had been sitting there or I'd have tried to get some meat off it. It was frozen solid and covered with fresh snow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by your_comforting_company
Up in the upper peninsula of michigan there is a big falls. The falls are called tequamanon falls. any who the river is fed by swamps and due to this the water is about the colour of tea water. I've often wondered how concentrated the tannins are. I know, I know, I have such important things to wonder about, why am wondering about that? LOL
LOL, I was thinking about those falls as I wrote about the swamp tannins. Now that would be a good "creek" for rinsing a hide in.
Just don't let it get too weak for too long, and especially don't let it get too hot. I'm sure the skin will be fine. You've done great with it so far, and now it's just a waiting game. The way you picked up on the other details by doing, I'm sure you've figured out what you need to do here too.
When you get a chance, lets see a pic of the progress. It's been a few days now, right?
On a side note, my cow hides are as black as the space between the stars, and the liquor, though it's still very dark, is very thin on my fingers, so it's about time to step it up again. I started to get a bit of mold on top already so it's fermenting nicely. This black walnut might tan faster than bark. I'll do a neck check monday and post pics so you can see what to look for.
This pic is from the neck check on the last deer hide in laurel oak. Maybe it's good enough to see what progress looks like:
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...0403091725.jpg
It's not that great LOL.. Maybe it'll give you some idea tho, I'll get better pics on day 15 (monday) of the walnut.
Ok, here's some more pics.
This is the depleted 4th pouring of liquor. I can see clear to the bottom of the cooler, 3-4".
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...urDepleted.jpg
Below is the liquor after adding 1/2 of the 3rd pouring to re-strengthen it, nice and dark once again. I can only see 1" or so down before visibility is lost.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...tStartDay4.jpg
Here are a couple pics of the hide as of today. You can see it has light spots and black spots. The light spots are possibly where I missed removing some membrane or pigment. I simply used my thumbnail to scrape what little bit of pigment was left off the hair side after the first couple days and continued the soak.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...thPourDay4.jpg
This pic shows the black streaks that I believe were caused by the blood and mostly by the rust that was in the creek which left orange stains on the skin.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...4WholeSkin.jpg
From what I understand this does nothing to the usable qualities of the leather, but gives it a more rustic look. The leather can be dyed to hide these imperfections or they can be left in for added character, lol. I'll most likely leave them in.
I suppose now it's just a waiting game of stirring the skin and adding ever increasing strengths of liquor. If the light spots persist I will re-membrane the flesh side in those areas, but I dodn't see any noticable membrane left at this point. ??
Looking forward to the updates and pics ycc.
I like the uneven coloring. As you say, it adds character.
Has anyone suggested making dinner out of the deer?
That's the best part Kevin
Deer #1 all packed up
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m.../6bPackage.jpg
Heart and inner loins in butter and onions
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...1HeartLoin.jpg
Liver, lightly breaded
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...hing/10Eat.jpg
I've ate 2 livers, 2 kidneys, 1 heart, 4 inner loins, 1/2 a backstrap, 2 pounds of burger, a roast and I think that's it in the last 3 weeks.
YUM! :drool:
I like the marbling of the hide myself, and personally, I'd leave them in. I don't think you missed enough membrane to affect the coloring and it's more likely where it picked up some minerals in the creek. Looks like the hide is going great so far, and supper looks delicious!
Props for using as much of the animal as you could, too!!
Thanks, I just need to get around to peeling the remaining meat off the bones so I can make something outta them.
Is there any special way to tell if the membrane or epidermis hasn't been removed completely after it's been in the liquor?
On a side note:
I'm considering trying a bark tan of sorts on the flesh side only of the hockskins I kept, I have eight of them now, and the ears. But, I'm thinking if I put them straight in the bark liquor the hair might slip?? I'm not worried if the hair discolors either. I'm considering just placing wet bark chunks on the skin directly and seeing if it tans with just a dry scrape fleshing and membraning or dunking them and seeing if they'll tan and if the hair slips. I have plenty of liquor and bark to go around for a couple projects.
Back to the skin tanning
I did post two vids for the rinsing and first part of the tanning that I described above if anyone's interested. The vids are kinda low quality and nothing too exciting, but a different format for those who might prefer vids.
Rinsing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HgKH8tnITQ
Tanning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RWPpMTTZn8
The hair shouldn't slip on the hocks. Bark liquor will tighten the skin, setting the hair rather than making it fall out. Do an extra good fleshing job. there are a lot of tendons on that part. I have brain tanned a few, just messing around. I have a lot of stuff I need to sew up! I've even tried tanning ears and a scrotum (Don't ask), but both got stiff.
If you aren't worried about staining the fur, I say just submerge them with the skin and let them tan. I'll get pics of the black walnut cow today as soon as there is enough light.
Looking at the rinsing video, you did a very good job on removing the membrane.
Nice work, and great vids RWC!
Not gonna say it - I figured I read it wrong because of the pain meds.Quote:
Originally Posted by your_comforting_company
Well the hide has been soaking for a week now and the light spots are darkening up nicely now. I found a bit more pigment/ epidermis on the grain side and scraped that off with my thumbnail.
YCC, at what point do you sew the holes up?
Anytime. It can be done before the tan, during, or after. sometime during the tan will be better for keeping it flatter. gives it a little time to tighten before sewing, and then as it continues to tighten, it will help it lay.
If sewing with sinew, a little lazy stitch will hold, but if using sewing thread you better double or triple each stitch. Cotton thread is laughably weak compared to sinew.
With a minimal amount of practice, you can make holes virtually disappear. The trick here is in using the staker to stretch the skin.. Be careful around those holes when softening or you could have an incident like this!
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...g/100_5892.jpg
I didn't sew this hole up and when softening I made it a little (ehem.. a lot) bigger. OOPS!
This reminded me to put the same info in the braintan thread. Thanks RWC!
Cool, thanks. Looks like i have plenty of time to decide when to stitch then.
The hide is darkening up nicely, even in the spots where I removed more pigment from the grain side.
Yesterday I put the fleshed and scraped hockskins into a 50/50 mix of the third pour and water. Prior to adding the hockskins I stirred up what remained of the third pour and it turned a milky red color. Before it looked like black coffee, now it looks like red tea with milk in it. Is it normal?? It doesn't smell funky.
If I ever get around to doing the neck check, I'll take a picture of my old liquor. it's rather milky too, and I think it's part of the fermenting process. As long as it doesn't smell rotten it's good to go.
I think it's like the stuff you filter out when making wine. It might be a bit more pungent now that it's had time to sit, but not rancid. If you think it's okay, I'm sure it is. You've picked up on this really well. I'm sure your judgment is fine.
Oh, snap. Brain tanning gnarlies and wine dregs. I'll be off food for a week.
No, that's not a hide in there.. It's the mold that grows on top. This liquor is about 2 years old, +/- a month.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...g/DSCN5522.jpg
The stick is about 4" deep and you can only see about 2" of it.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...g/DSCN5524.jpg
See how milky it looks? It's natural.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...g/DSCN5525.jpg
This is the check I just did. It lacks about 1/8" in the very center to be struck through, notice it's dark on the outside of the cross section, but only slightly mis-colored in the center. While it has taken some color, I wan't to be extra sure so I'm leaving it for at least another 2 weeks.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...g/DSCN5536.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...g/DSCN5538.jpg
My liquor is getting pretty weak and runny now too, so I'll pour a little more over in there tonight.
That's pretty much how my liqour looks minus the big growth. LOL! That cow hide's gonna be something when it's done.
well today I added the first of three jugs of my scond pouring to the cooler. The liquor has been looking a tad weak for two days now, can see down over an inch or two, so I figured it was time. The cooler is over half full now, which means about 6 gallons I suppose. I think before adding the next two gallons of second pour I'll drain off half the diluted stuff so it increases the strength a bit more??
There's plenty of room in the cooler, but I'm thinking it will be hard to get the strength up with all that spent liquor in there.
Not much change in the skin, seems to have a slightly different feel and looks only a tad bit darker than before.
The second pouring I added today had a multi-color array of mold growing on it, pink, green, black. I dipped out the mold and pitched it. Also, I'm now wearing the nitrile gloves when stirring and adjusting the hide in the liquor. It still smells like bark, but I'm just not too keen on sticking my hands in there after it's been soaking so long and after seeing that mold. I always seem to have a hangnail or small cut on my hands and don't want to take any chances.
If I rub the deer skin the darkness of the tannins seems to rub off somewhat, not asure if that's normal, grain side only. The flesh side is much lighter than the grain side btw, but is slowly darkening.
Yep. Pour out about half of your current bath, but save it. It'll be a good start-out liquor for the next skin. I keep two buckets of bathwater, one is weak for starting hides, and the other is super strong with big chunks ofbark in it. Once the bulk tannins are out of the first bath, it seems to tan the next skin more quickly, making the second big bath (really strong) take up more quickly, too.
If you have cuts on your hands I strongly recommend wearing the gloves. The bark liquor is antimicrobial, but it will leave a terrible scent on your hands, and after the thumb incident, I just ain't taking no chances.
My black walnut liquor is getting that pungent fermented smell as of yesterday. Had to change clothes when it splashed up on me. (I dropped the skin as I was stirring) and the wife said I wasn't going nowhere with her smelling like that!
Glad I was wearing my work britches!
I agree, it's time to make a new bath for it. It will likely start taking more color again, or it could be as colored as it's gonna get and now you just wait for the strike-through.
None of this stuff is really exact. Gotta go with your gut, and so far, your gut has been right. Do that thang!
Look at this way. If you go in Wal-Mart wearing those drawers you'll clear out any section where you want to buy and you'll get the best selection! Great for sale day!
Well, in three days it has taken on a bit more color, although there are small areas on the grain side where it appears to not be taking color. I see nothing but grain in those spots, so I'm unsure why so light.
I could already see more than inch down into the liquor today so I removed about 2+ gallons of the old liquor and added the remaining two gallons of second pouring. I poured the stuff I removed in with the hockskins Im doing.
Interestingly, the smaller of two hockskins has sunk while the other larger rear leg is still floating somewhat. The flesh side of them has taken on a distinct red color, I've seen no change in the color of the hair yet. As thin as they are it's likely they are struck thru, paper thin almost.
When the skin liquor lightens again i will check for strike through.
You're getting real close. Remember there's still the first pouring which will be your strongest and it should finish coloring the hide. It's very much possible that some of the minerals from the creek are slowing the coloring, or perhaps reacting with the tannic acid differently. Just have to take it all in stride and let it be what it is. Even the black walnut cow I'm doing has a bit of marbling. I will do a neck check on it today if I get back from hunting at any decent hour... might even do a little vid ;)
I would imagine that when you check the striking on the hocks, you'll find they move just about as slowly as a thick part of the skin because the fibers are so close together and tightly woven on the legs.
Winter deer skins seem to float more than summer skins because of the hollow hairs deer grow for their winter coat. The dead air space inside the hair acts like our winter jackets, creating space for warmth.
Glad to know the liquor isn't staining the hair.. I have 4 large hocks from an 8 point my dad killed last weekend and I'm thinking hard about putting them in my red oak tan to make him a small hunting bag. Not sure if I want to wait till sumac season or not.. It is a much lighter brown tan, almost greenish
After hearing about the sumac, I'd like to try it too. Yet another use for a multi-use plant.
IF you wanted to bark tan a fur, do you still soak the whole thing in bark liquor? fur and all? or is there a different method?
Bark tan furs are typically done with extracts, alum and salt in order to preserve the color of the furs. Our bark tan here has stains in it that will very likely discolor the fur. Quebracho extract is an option. It is a natural product that has been through a manufacturing process, but it won't stain the fur.
One other option that I have not tried yet, (but would like to this coming spring) is using sumac leaves, which make a very light brown.. almost green, and should not stain the fur the way red oak would.
To answer the question: yes and no. If I were to bark tan a fur, I would submerge the whole thing in the bark liquor and not worry about the fur discoloration. If you are worried about the fur color, We might have to explore more options.
I'll try to find some information on different vegetables for tanning, and post some sort of color / stain table.
I believe RWC said he has some hockskins in his bark liquor. We'll see how badly it stains the fur on those.
I typically brain tan furs so they'll be softish and not so stiff. Might be worth trying on a little squirrel skin tho..
Quote:
Originally Posted by your_comforting_company
im not really worried about fur color that much. I was thinking of trying this with a squirrel, just to learn the process. and i read somewhere that squirrel skin is too thin to remove the hair. like if you removed the hair, the hide would just rip when graining(?).
My hockskins are coming along nicely, in fact I think they've struck through. It's hard to tell as they are so thin you can't really see an inner part of the skin, it's paper thin almost.
But, the hair hasn't disolored much if at all.
I'm going to be testing for strikethrough on my deer skin in a day or two and will post pics and/ or vids of all.
Currying the hockskins will be a test as they are so thin it doesn't take much to tear them at all, you can tear them like a sheet of thick construction paper.
I have not tried to remove the hair and grain from squirrels. I have heard the same thing about graining them, CS. Might be time for me (us) to do some more experimenting ;)
@RWC, Thanks for the update. Glad to hear you're not getting any bad staining. I might have a go at it myself! It's not like if I mess it up I've lost anything lol. Can't wait to see the pics!