Fire by Friction....One More Time

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Originally Posted by your_comforting_company

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One thing I would like to add here is that it is pretty much impossible to make fire by banging 2 rocks together. Many folks have told me "I have made fire with 2 flint rocks before" yet every one of them fails when I hand them 2 rocks, but I can take my sticks and have flames in my hand in 3 minutes.
Conditions need to be favorable, i.e. gentle breeze, not raining, dry materials, but not necessarily "ideal".

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I have tried this , but not with "flint", but 2 pieces of iron pyrite, fools gold.
It will create a spark, but I gotta say, that it's pretty hard to do.
Have not been successful in actually getting much past the spark.

Also I have tried a lot of times to used the bow drill, and will continue to research local materials, to find something that will work, as I have seen it done at demonstrations also.
The demonstrator made it look easy, so I guess I'm just retarded, or lack the "secret", or maybe just lack patience.
Did try chucking up my "drill", in the Milwaukee, thinking that that would give me more speed, Nada.

So, I keep plenty of "Bic's" in every jacket, coat, bag, vehicle along with the fire steel, matches, fire starters, redundancy, redundancy, redundancy.

Maybe you want to try Iron pyrite and flint, or flint and steel. Not two rocks of the same type, although they can produce a spark it has always been very weak in my experience. Try Char cloth with the flint and steel method.

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Originally Posted by pocomoonskyeyes

Maybe you want to try Iron pyrite and flint, or flint and steel. Not two rocks of the same type, although they can produce a spark it has always been very weak in my experience. Try Char cloth with the flint and steel method.

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I had that down for years, actually won a couple of fire starting contests at Rendezvous, that with the flint rock and steel, not the magnesium and rod type.
I still will pursue the bow drill way, as it kinda making me mad that I haven't master that yet.

Here's a thread I posted on some time back. Rock on rock sparks is quite possible.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ight=fire+rock

Here's a question for all of you. Many of us live near natural outcroppings of coal or even oil or tar. Have any of you used these natural materials for fire starters? I'm not talking about carrying the stuff to the field with you but finding them in the field and using them? Once you have a fire started with fire bow, flint and steel or rock on rock you could have a very hot fire in just a few minutes.

Well Coal is out. You have to get a fire going to get the coal going...

I carry a fire board and spindle in my fire kit, bow is easy to make but have had limited luck with the spindle and fireboard found on the spot I have done it on occasion but find that with the one in my kit it is almost easy, the one I carry came from an old ceder fence post it worked so well I kept it and it became a permanent part of my kit. Both the spindle and fire board are made of ceder and I carry a 3' piece of 550 for the cord. I also have a bamboo fire saw as part of my kit it works well also but I find it to be more work then the bow and drill. As far as finding everything in the wild yes I can do it but find it much more convenient to carry it along rather then search for just the right material

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Originally Posted by Rick

Here's a question for all of you. Many of us live near natural outcroppings of coal or even oil or tar. Have any of you used these natural materials for fire starters? I'm not talking about carrying the stuff to the field with you but finding them in the field and using them? Once you have a fire started with fire bow, flint and steel or rock on rock you could have a very hot fire in just a few minutes.

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I guess this is the way I think also, if I gotta carry it, it will be a Bic, zippo, fire steel, matches etc.

I have found a piece of flint, (rock) dug it up digging the fire pit and used my patch knife, had a fire steel handle, to start the camp fire.

What material/ wood, would you suggest using for the fire board? Drill?
Old , dry, green, type etc.

Dry, non-resinous wood, preferably one hard, one soft.

I was out looking for some dry mullein today.

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Originally Posted by Rick

I would really like to know if there is anyone on the forum that can walk into the woods, pick up pieces of wood or other plant parts and make fire? If you can, I have two questions for you.

1. What material did you use?
2. What time of year did you gather it?

Everyone keeps talking about how easy it is and I can't do it for anything. I'm to the point that I think folks are making their fire kits at home and taking them to the woods with them. If that's what everyone is doing then I don't understand the reasoning either. The purpose, to me, is to be able to perform the task if you have no other means at your disposal, which means you have no fire kit with you. Otherwise a lighter or some matches is a heck of a lot more efficient. So what say you?

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depends on several things. what's the weather at the moment?

1.) what's the weather been lately?

2.)where am i [...and what's going on, i've been imbibing...]

3.) what grows here?

it's a very broad question and i'm not afraid to admit that maybe half [maybe more] of circumstances, i couldn't get a friction fire started any time soon. and i have been working on it a lot.

now here, most of the time it's easy, especially during the dry months, but there's a reason millions of people have set up shop, so to speak, living in this valley.

i haven't read the whole thread, but if it hasn't been said yet, don't forget dock during/after sumer.

Rumex sp. flower stalks work great and once they dry, they stay dry enough to use even in wet weather, until it begins to decompose and gets soft [likey to fold over instead of breaking]. tinder on the other hand can be hard to come by in many situations.

nothing simple in firemaking, unless circumstances are ideal.

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Originally Posted by hunter63

I guess this is the way I think also, if I gotta carry it, it will be a Bic, zippo, fire steel, matches etc.

I have found a piece of flint, (rock) dug it up digging the fire pit and used my patch knife, had a fire steel handle, to start the camp fire.

What material/ wood, would you suggest using for the fire board? Drill?
Old , dry, green, type etc.

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I agree. If I'm gonna carry my fire in, it's gonna be a zippo or bic. pack light and save room for other items.

Drill: should be dead and weathered. soft enough to dent with fingernail. Horseweed, Mullein, and yucca are great spindle materials. It should grind easily into a very fine powder and not be sappy as resins tend to gum up or polish the hot end of the spindle resulting in a horrendous squeak.

Hearth: should also be dead and weathered and non-resinous. It should be slightly harder than your spindle with a more aggressive grain for grinding the spindle, though still able to dent with your fingernail. Most willows will work though I choose black willow when available. I have used pieces of crate which I assume were oak, but it did not work very well. Cottonwood and Basswood are also good hearth materials. I have heard of using white cedar, but have not tried it. Make sure you dont forget to cut the V-groove into the hearth for the dust to collect UNDER the spindle.

Bow: should be very hard, very stiff wood that does NOT flex when in operation. I use Tulip Poplar for all my bows. Hickory I'm sure would work, as well as pecan.

Tindle: should be dead dry grassy materials that catch fire easily. I use Johnsongrass and bahaia, and have on occasion used spanish moss. Make your birdnest out of grasses, add a few shavings of your spindle and top it with dandelion or thistle fluff. Even johnsongrass or cattail fluffwill work. I add that in to catch my ember when transferring from platform to tindle. even more frustrating than being out of breath is dumping all your dust and ember THROUGH the tindle. bummer. :cursing:

The most important thing to remember when making fire is : dont think about making fire. all your efforts should be focused on operation of the kit, posture, and breathing. there is nothing more frustrating than getting a live ember and being too tired to blow it into flame. The first time I made fire with sticks took me the better part of a day. :sweatdrop:

It boils down to the transformation of human will into pure energy. Basically you use enough pressure and friction to split a molecule into simpler parts: volatile gasses that burn, inert materials like ash, and energy/light/heat. you cause a degradational chain reaction much like an atomic bomb in slow motion on a microscopic scale. :nuke: The key is to watch the smoke from your kit. At first it will be gray, then will turn yellowish, which indicates a live ember. Be sure you blow that tiny ember GENTLY into the dust pile to make it grow large enough to be transferred.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...pictureid=1067
tulip poplar bow, yucca spindle, limestone socket, black willow hearth

A good book on the subject is "Fire Making Art" by Russel Cutts.

YCC, thank you, that does add some useful information to mix, (actually has been a lot from everyone).
I guess because it is one ski;; I haven't mastered, I get frustrated when ever I try it.
Thanks again.

P.S. I actually found a "socket rock" in a dry stream bed, while on one of my
"expeditions".
Has a perfect hole in it and if you put it in your hand it fits perfectly.

Here's a couple of the pic's of the bow drill "socket" I found.
I will be going to a "clean and sort" session at the local collage, for the local Archaeological Society, which I am a member.
I will ask the expert what he thinks.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...CT0772crop.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...CT0777crop.jpg

Also pictured is a stone adz (I think), that has tool mark for the groove to tie it on a handle, as well as the fact that it fits perfectly in my right hand.

Wouldn't be interesting to know the real history of those tools. Nice finds.

I would suspect that is an acorn grinding stone. Where villages were stationary, they were rather large stones and had several holes for grinding acorns. That one appears to be used by a more transient people and could be carried with them.

http://lightofmorn.com/html/bychance.htm

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...tone-750px.jpg

Just got back from the collage, top guy there in the archaeological group, agree that it has been worked, he called it "cultural rather than "natural", but in his opinion it was inconclusive.
Thanks for the site Rick, does look like the acorn stone, but the sides are straight, and show signs of a turning motion, (wear marks).
I also have a grinding stone in my collection, and the sides are more tapered.

You want to do a thread on "Finds"?

I just got done watchin Lil' Joe from Bonanza start a fire in the fireplace by using a bowdrill. He made it look easy and after a minute or so of drilling, and flirtin with a girl at the same time, the fire lit right up. He didn't even have to blow on it. PooF! Fire!

He did appear to be a lil sweaty. I guess they threw that in for realism. LOL!

That and the match head under the spindle helped.:innocent: