How to Grow Axe Heads onto a Handle

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Originally Posted by Gray Wolf

So again, how do you come up with these dates you state??? :confused:
How did you come up with that tree being 911 years older than that house?? :confused:

As I posted earlier,


The State Park workers don't date anything before the 1919 house, from when the Matheson family of Miami owned the island. They're are a couple of other buildings on the island also. The records of the island ownership itself only dates to 1843.

Also, sorry but the picture you posted doesn't look like the Florida Strangler Fig. That why I posted the pictures of 3 different Florida Strangler Figs.

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Its a strangler fig, trees are one of my fields of study. strangler figs spread when they cant climb once a wide base is established then they rise.

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Originally Posted by klkak

You are not talking about wilderness survival. You are talking about an antiquated practice. In your own words;


If you were in a true life or death "survival situation", growing an axe handle is not an option.

There are folks on here that are into running around with stone tipped spears and stone Axe's. Or black powder guns and tomahawks. If thats you, then good for you. Some of that technology is very useful for survival. Growing an axe handle isn't one of them.

I have made post other than insults. Some of them are even educational. But unlike a good deal of other folks. I am reading the multitude of information that is already here. In that way I don't post something that has already been discussed. If and when I decide to make another educational contribution. It will be something new to the forum I hope, as well as throughly tested. Maybe even documented with video, photograph's or wittiness's.

Now to me being misinformed;
I lived the first 8 years of my life in miserable conditions on a stinking reservation. My Fathers brothers, taught me to make bows, arrows and knapping. When my Father died we moved off the Res. It was now up to me to provide for my Mother, sisters and brothers. We subsisted on what Mom grew in the garden and the meat that I provided. Mostly squirrels and jack rabbits at first. I killed my first deer at age 9 with a single shot .22lr. I started trapping that same year. I became very good at both hunting and trapping.

Misinformed, not hardly. I choose the new ways because they are for the most part better (thats why the old ways are not in common practice any more). I know what it is to be stranded in a hostile environment with almost nothing. I know what it is to be unsure if I would be alive or dead in the next 10 minutes let alone any hope at the time of being rescued. I have lived it and I have the memories and the nightmares as souvenirs. When I post something here it is tested, it is simple and it is productive. It has to be. If I put information on here and someone used it and lost their life because it wasn't relevant teaching. Or gave up their desire to learn about things wild because of the difficulty. I would never forgive myself.

Now wake up and realize that I'm not the only one who feels and has voiced that some of the stuff you put on here is, for lack of better words "way out there"! And quit being so tender skinned.

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When your Atv runs out of gass, and your shotgun mis fires its final wet load,
you would be to take care of yourself.

Klkak, Survival is a life style, yours must be like madd maxx, (thugs with guns) and dune buggies looking to take from someone who worked to earn what they have. Horticulture, is a very important aspect of survival, that helps to leave something for someone else.

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Originally Posted by Gray Wolf

This is not a flame!
I also don't understand where you got the method you're describing. Every place I looked described the same way Mac's book did. They describe making a split into a growing tree limb, then forcing the flint head into it. The tree healing itself would fill the split tightly around the stone. Please point me to any place that describes your way of using a tree for this purpose, I always want to learn, real ways, not what might have been. Again, this is not a flame, I just can't find doing it the way you say anywhere. Please don't say it's something that was never reported or described or written about, that it's just some secret way handed down...

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Theres not much info out there, and i am not so sure that what is availible is accurate. when I posted this thread i was hoping for suggestions or methods that work. I have done experiments with fish sized bones and small glass knives. now I am expanding that research in hopes of answering those "UNKNOWN" questions, Was it done for conservation, The iron hard connection of wood and stone in a tool like this cannot be duplicated by any other means. these techniques are important to know even if you never make use of them. And remember that someone cherrished even the stones more than we do.

And the Academy Award for most theatrical post goes to:

come on you know who you are::rolleyes:

I haven't seen so much warmth and friendship since my dog got neutered

klkak: when you were on the rez, did you look around? there were a lot of us around. we all went through it
get on with life, don't use it as a shield/crutch

Gray Wolf: prove him wrong, give the book, page correction of his post
not many books were written by paleo peoples, word of mouth passed on at night around a communal fire, on the trail, while actually participating in a task etc....was the norm
today we are trying to reclaim some of those truths...memory is not always long enough so we have to retro understand and try out what happened.

As far as being only about "survival" in the bush well no one can tell what small skill knowledge acquired here will serve them in a time of need.

As I said before, sort it out by trial and error, ignore what you don't want
get on with your lives.

Personally I wont loose sleep over it. yoh

(but it does make for a good gigggle)

Folks all this is kinda interesting, if it was done or not I don't think we will ever know. I do know one thing, in a survival situation nobody would waste their time on this method. I am sure IF I wanted to attach a "rock" to a stick I could find a live tree with a fork, put whatever in it and have wood on both sides. Good for one good THUNK on somebody's head and then take his hatchet, knife, food, women, booze and probably the other useless stuff he worked so hard to hoard. That is either survival or too much "shine" on a Sat. nite.

If we consider this as a form of agricultural practice, wood lore has more to say.

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Originally Posted by Tsitenha

klkak: when you were on the rez, did you look around? there were a lot of us around. we all went through it
get on with life, don't use it as a shield/crutch

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Tsitenha: Yes I looked around. I know I wasn't alone. When I left the rez, I left for good. I never returned not even to visit. I don't use my experience there as a "shield/crutch" either. In fact I rarely ever think or talk of it. However, I have never forgotten the lessons I learned there and the years following my Fathers death. The only reason I brought it up in my post, was to reveal that survival for me was not and is still not an "interest, hobby or pass time". It was also to let our forum brother know that I have more then just a passing knowledge of the primitive ways. In fact, it is not uncommon to find me out by the shed making stone tools or a bow (both "self" and "backed").

Now, for me this subject is a "dead horse".

Eugene, If my ATV were to run out of gas and I had fired my last round. It would be but an inconvenience. If I were to die because of it....I am ready and have been waiting my turn to go "home" for a very long time.:)

Everyone: Please forgive me for my aggressive comments.

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Originally Posted by klkak

Tsitenha: Yes I looked around. I know I wasn't alone. When I left the rez, I left for good. I never returned not even to visit. I don't use my experience there as a "shield/crutch" either. In fact I rarely ever think or talk of it. However, I have never forgotten the lessons I learned there and the years following my Fathers death. The only reason I brought it up in my post, was to reveal that survival for me was not and is still not an "interest, hobby or pass time". It was also to let our forum brother know that I have more then just a passing knowledge of the primitive ways. In fact, it is not uncommon to find me out by the shed making stone tools or a bow (both "self" and "backed").

Now, for me this subject is a "dead horse".

Eugene, If my ATV were to run out of gas and I had fired my last round. It would be but an inconvenience. If I were to die because of it....I am ready and have been waiting my turn to go "home" for a very long time.:)

Everyone: Please forgive me for my aggressive comments.

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Hey Klkak, how is your ankle? I have not heard anymore about it. And how is Mrs. Klkak? I hope you both are doing better. I am glad that you are taking the time to share what you know with your decendants.
-Sam

Sam, I have an appointment on the 6th of this month to have my cast removed. At that time they will x-ray it. I hope it shows the bone has healed. I will be posting an update about my wife in the next day or so in the thread "Brain Tumor". Thank you for asking.

erunkis, Would you please quit side stepping GW's question.

How did you determine the age of that tree?

Spell it out in plain English. Either you have a factual source or you injected your own truth!

Which is it?

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Originally Posted by klkak

erunkis, Would you please quit side stepping GW's question.

How did you determine the age of that tree?

Spell it out in plain English. Either you have a factual source or you injected your own truth!

Which is it?

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I asked a horticulturist on Islamorada Key about that tree and others in the local island area. The mans name is Brian Zarcone. He is also a diving instructor/ tour guide.

Klkak, no apology needed to me
if I apologised for every idiot word out of my mouth I'd be forever on my knees

The strong ones made it of the rez and did stay out...you made it:D

Some of the things that Brian told me about the red Mangrove was even more amazing than that Strangler Fig.

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tsitenha
Gray Wolf: prove him wrong, give the book, page correction of his post

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I did, I posted what Mac had found....

Here it is again.

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Originally Posted by Pict

Here you go.
Weapons: A Pictorial history

Page 16 in the review.

Mac

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tsitenha:
not many books were written by paleo peoples, word of mouth passed on at night around a communal fire, on the trail, while actually participating in a task etc....was the norm.

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That's why we have Paleontologists, Archeologists, Anthropologists, Historians, etc. The dinosaurs didn't write or have those communal fires, but amazingly we know so much about them. Ötzi the Iceman died by himself, yet we know what he ate, carried, wore, his tools, his weapons, that he was in a fight with at least two people, won, but died a few days to a week later. and he was from 3300 BC.
Isn't history amazing....

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Originally Posted by erunkiswldrnssurvival

When your Atv runs out of gass, and your shotgun mis fires its final wet load,
you would be to take care of yourself.

Klkak, Survival is a life style, yours must be like madd maxx, (thugs with guns) and dune buggies looking to take from someone who worked to earn what they have. Horticulture, is a very important aspect of survival, that helps to leave something for someone else.

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I understand the curiosity of some of these posts and the interest in learning about the ways things may have been done. With unfamiliar and different things come the questions that are asked for clarification and understanding. When people are passionate about a topic and get questions or challenges they may tend to not appreciate it. Like I've always said, if you don't like the answer, don't ask the question.

As far as the Madd Maxx comment - I must say that if I was in a survival situation - atv or not, shotgun or not I would be mighty d***ed glad to have somebody like Klkak with me to help me through the situation.

A lot of trees's limbs fuse when they touch, and if you scrape the bark off down to the wood where the limbs touch you get even better results. the weapons book barely describes an assumed probable method. nice try.

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Originally Posted by erunkiswldrnssurvival

A lot of trees's limbs fuse when they touch, and if you scrape the bark off down to the wood where the limbs touch you get even better results. the weapons book barely describes an assumed probable method. nice try.

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Nice try???? :confused:

FROM THE BOOK:
"making a split into a growing tree limb, then forcing the flint head into it. The tree seeking to heal its wound fills the split tightly around the stone......"

How is that an assumed probable method????

Do you even know who Edwin Tunis is, or the books he's written?

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Originally Posted by Gray Wolf

Nice try???? :confused:

FROM THE BOOK:
"making a split into a growing tree limb, then forcing the flint head into it. The tree seeking to heal its wound fills the split tightly around the stone......"

How is that an assumed probable method????

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Sorry , What I meant was that method is just one of many that all complete the same basic job, different processes hold different ways, not all stones want to gripped that way , some times braiding limbs togather with the stone in it is more manageable.

Just for curiosity sake, have you grown any handles into or around rock yet that have successfully made a working tool. If so, I'd love to see the pics.

I have done knife blades that way, I have a couple friends in NC that grow knife and adz handles with this method of various ways... unfortunately I havent any useable pics to share, I'm sorry about that.