Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Reeves
I see That you're located in North Georgia, what school are you going to? I attend Athens Technical College and also happen to tutor there as well... May I have came across you?
Daniel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Reeves
I see That you're located in North Georgia, what school are you going to? I attend Athens Technical College and also happen to tutor there as well... May I have came across you?
Daniel
Appalachian Technical College. Jasper campus. The only time I have ever been to Athens was to install some freezer walls for some building associated with the UGA. I notice that a lot of folks from Georgia around here.Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerXanatos
Maybes him userername were typo also. Maybe him meant to type "Stoned" instead of "Stony". :pQuote:
Originally Posted by rebel
Below is an excerpt from my favorite Robert Frost poem. It's an interesting insight into human nature and how we all judge one another with our own individualized measuring sticks. I like the line towards the end about "My object in living is to unite My avocation and my vocation " to me that is the key to life- enjoy what you do!
TWO TRAMPS IN MUD TIME
Out of the mud two strangers came
And caught me splitting wood in the yard,
And one of them put me off my aim
By hailing cheerily "Hit them hard!"
I knew pretty well why he had dropped behind
And let the other go on a way.
I knew pretty well what he had in mind:
He wanted to take my job for pay...
...The time when most I loved my task
The two must make me love it more
By coming with what they came to ask.
You'd think I never had felt before
The weight of an ax-head poised aloft,
The grip of earth on outspread feet,
The life of muscles rocking soft
And smooth and moist in vernal heat.
Out of the wood two hulking tramps
(From sleeping God knows where last night,
But not long since in the lumber camps).
They thought all chopping was theirs of right.
Men of the woods and lumberjacks,
The judged me by their appropriate tool.
Except as a fellow handled an ax
They had no way of knowing a fool.
Nothing on either side was said.
They knew they had but to stay their stay
And all their logic would fill my head:
As that I had no right to play
With what was another man's work for gain.
My right might be love but theirs was need.
And where the two exist in twain
Theirs was the better right--agreed.
But yield who will to their separation,
My object in living is to unite
My avocation and my vocation
As my two eyes make one in sight.
Only where love and need are one,
And the work is play for mortal stakes,
Is the deed ever really done
For Heaven and the future's sakes.
A degree certainly doesn't make you any smarter. There are plenty of people with master's degrees and doctorates who could pour pee pee out of a boot.Quote:
Originally Posted by tunick001
Personally, I like school. I didn't when I was fresh out of high school. I was a 'C' student with little or no real plans. In my early 30s I went back to school and loved it. I studied Eastern Philosophy at Christopher Newport University and would have went on to get a master's degree if I hadn't decided that I hated my high-paying corporate job enough to up and quit one day. I packed up and moved 12 time zones away and couldn't be happier.
There is certainly a lot more to life than money. That old cliche 'money can't buy happiness' is very true. Money is at the back of my priority list and I couldn't be more blissful... and, for some reason, money keeps coming in in spite of my attitude. :-)
Find out what makes you happy and try to make a living at it. Life is too short to work for a paycheck.
Well, yeah, it actually does. You generally learn something if even by osmosis. It won't give you good judgement or common sense but you will be smarter for the process.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galong
Interesting thread.
I dropped out of High School but ended up going and getting my GED.
After working at many textile mills in my area(usually working my way to foreman) before they closed.I ended up getting a job that requires machining steel.
It was rebuilding machines so holding tolerance was a must on many parts,down to the .001.Learned about heat treating,welding...ect.
When the company split the shop into 2 sections I was lucky enough to go with the R&D dept.
They ended up purchasing a CNC machine that lots of folks tried to program,but had no luck.I ended up reading the books and experimenting with different programs on the machine.After some time I self taught myself to program and over time was able to do some pretty intense parts on it.
Boss liked that and sent me to learn Solid Works 3D cad drawing.I've also learned some programing for servo drives,but haven't dealt with them in some time.
Basically,if you find a job that's willing to send you to school it could be a ticket to higher pay.I know it worked for me,it will be 20 yrs at my job, come next month.
I will not kid you,sometimes I have stress knowing that without a degree it could be tough to find a job in my field.But,I guess I will have to cross that bridge when I get to it.
Knowledge is not intelligence. On the other hand; the genuine motivation to pursue it is a sign of it and a university is a decent place to look for it.
I'm a bad case of the self educated man, and it is a wonderful thing; one will learn far faster on one's own schedule as long as the desire is there but the down side is that one tends to learn only those things that interest them. If I - for example - did not have to ability to find interest in almost everything my fields of study wouldn't have become so diverse that I was statistically bound to learn some useful things along the way. Anybody can learn only those things they want to, but a structured education - formal or otherwise - is good for forcing you to study things you might not otherwise have bothered with. I've never been able to do so in a formal setting.
I do think one's education is important for life happiness, but does not necessarily equate to a high paying job. After graduating high school, my son learned to be an electrician using an OJT program. His trade has rewarded him with as much as $46/hr on some jobs - over twice as much as his dad, (a BS Magna Cum Laude University grad with 30+ yrs management experience) has ever earned. I work 6 days/wk, 60+ hrs (this week is over 70 hrs) with only 1 paid holiday/yr. - Christmas day. I'm responsible for the P&L of over 30 departments, in multiple locations, yet I get paid less than $14/hr, considering all the hours I work. If sales or profits ever drop, I'll be held responsible and could easily lose my job -so there's no job security either. It seems that once a month they add another report or duty to my workload, but I can't quit cause I'm over 50 and it will be hard to find another job at my age, plus if I miss a couple paychecks I'll be living in my camper and standing in the food stamp line.
The bottom line is find a job that makes you happy, (and pays an income you can live with) as you will be working at it (hopefully) for a very long time. Then get the necessary education to succeed in your chosen field.
Chip
A diploma (formal education) is the quickest and most reliable way to prove to someone from whom you want money (salary, fee, etc) that you are qualified to do the job. Maybe you can do it without the benefit of a formal education, but people aren't just gonna take your word for it, nor would you if you were in their position. The higher up you go, the more there is at stake, the better, more reliable proof you need to provide.
If I'm choosing surgeons, I'll consider all sorts of things but primarily, where their formal education and training came from and what their reputation for excellence among their peers and patients is. If I'm looking for auto-mechanics, I'll be, basing my choice solely on their reputation and references.
Everything else is a matter of opinion.
LetsLearnTogether - Knowledge is knowledge I don't care where it comes from. Academia, technical school, OJT, self taught. It's all good stuff. Being a self taught programmer myself I completely understand what you went through. I've never had the first class in programming but can throw up a decently designed web site in a couple of hours. I would also suggest that your attitude has probably played as big of a role as your learning. Those who want to learn and are willing to seek out the information are valued employees at any level. You're right, too, about taking advantage of company sponsored training and formal schooling. I was blessed to have a company that paid a large portion of my college education.
Canid - That was a well worded and thoughtful post. Probably as well said as anyone could. Nice job.
Chip - I'd respectfully suggest that your $14 per hour is not really the way to look at it. I assume, based on your description, that you are salaried. If that's true then the ability to take time off and still get paid is also there. I was salaried for many years and worked a lot of OT that I wasn't compensated for. Yet, I could spend time on the golf course or go to a long lunch with my wife and still get paid. I gave way more than I took in terms of hours but the perks of being salaried far outweighed the drawbacks. At least for me.
reckon you have to define 'smarter' to qualify a position on the matter. Logic, reason and other forms of critical thinking are not necessarily included in all degree fields. Being able to barf out names, dates, places and stats is not what I call smarter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
If smarter means something you can use in life, then I still contend that you can sit through classes and pass tests and come out none the wiser as it applies to the real world... also known as smarter.
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Intelligence (smartness) is, in my opinion, quite subjective. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I do think you can a degree and be still be dumb as a rock.
I learned a lot of stuff about Fire Behavior when I took a "Fire Science" course,,,,,,,,, Learned a lot of stuff I didn't know when I took the EMT course too ! The list goes on and on,, I think Doctors are quite a bit "Smarter" after College,,,, at least i Hope they are ! Just sayin'....
There is often more than one path to success. Formal education is one, for others "it's not what you know but who you blow", some are born into it and some are just standing in the right place at the right time. I tend to believe you can't keep a good man down and the cream will rise to the top. The best people always work. Whatever you do be the best at it. If there is anything you will be able take with you into eternity it will only be your pride in your work.
+1 AS. That sums it up.
I find that sometimes folks never really find their niche.I've talked to,and I'm sure you all have also,to somebody in a certain job and you say to yourself,"gee,wonder what she's/he's doing here,he/she would be so much better at ....".
I mean some people have incredible"people"skills that work in sheltered jobs and vise versa.I'm one that has a rough time dealing with people,so being office bound for the day is not a big deal for me.
But back to education.I watched a program the other night that talked about the"apprentice" system coming back to life in many trades.
In some,it never did die.
Any time any work gets done at our apt. I stand and watch.
I learned by apprenticing of sorts, how to fix a running toilet, re-seat a bowl, re-caulk a tub, install a faucet, hang a light fixture, fix, prep & paint walls, and make slip covers.
And I saved a ton of money since labor is particularly expensive in NYC.
I think I have reached the capacity of my peanut brain and seem to forget as much as I learn. I have to be careful only to learn important things because I have no control over what I forget.
A degree can make you smarter, but not always. Also, smarter does not mean wiser. My favorite instructors are those that serve a lil wisdom with the heap of intelligence they try to stuff down your throat.
When job searching a degree does one thing, it shows your perspective employer that you are able to stick with and follow through with something, it doesn't tell them if you can do the job or get along with others. I know people without degrees that are far better programmers than I'll ever be, I also know people who are making huge money as programmers, system engineers, security consultants, etc.etc. and they can't program. How do they do it? People skills? BS artists?
We have some instructors with masters degrees and they can't even write code with VB using Visual Studio. You ask them a simple question about an "if else" statement or how to do "this" in MS Access or MS Word and they look like a deer caught in the headlights. We have other instructors that are apparently wizards of the IT world, they know so much about so many different aspects of IT, it amazes me. They all get paid the same and apparently have great job security.