Pandemic Survival

Well you can call me a skeptic, but it almost seems like if you simply walk into the room of an ebola patient, you can get it. The nurse that just got it was trying to use the correct protocal, and still got it. I think this stuff can transfer from one to another much easier than they are willing to admit.
In a place like Dallas, it just one infected person goes to a couple of malls and touches a bunch of stuff, ebola could spread like wild fire!
They should close the borders and not let anybody fly that is from countries where people have widespread infections. And especially not let them fly here!
But they will lolligag around untill the US has widespread infections and we will all be living in a SHTF situation. I think this is already being grossly mishandled and the CDC is more worried about people panicking than really preventing wide spread infections.

I think we'll find the nurse became infected while removing the protective gown, mask and gloves. There is a specific CDC recommended procedure for disrobing after treating an ebola patient. Deviating from that protocol, even slightly, can result in infection. Even the CDC recognizes that fact and has said there will probably be additional medical staff infections. In addition, Mr. Duncan had some pretty advanced life support including intubation and kidney dialysis. Both procedures brought the nursing staff into close personal contact with saliva and blood. I don't know but one can assume he also had vomiting and/or diarrhea in the later stages since those are typical symptoms. In addition, periodic blood samples were taken to monitor electrolyte levels. The CDC is now suggesting that blood samples only be taken once per day instead of the previously recommend several times per day.

There was no issue with Duncan flying into the U.S. He was not contagious at the time. So closing the borders would be an unnecessary and economically staggering thing to do. The costs would be in the hundreds of billions of dollars. It would probably bankrupt the airline industry alone.

Science is science. You can't fake that. Ebola has an extremely low infection rate. Go back and read post 52. Literally thousands of independent health care professionals have been involved with Ebola all along. From places like Doctors Without Borders as well as other governmental agencies from other countries. China has had a military hospital in Africa for a couple of months. Far longer than the U.S. military. And remember, of the 80 folks being monitored that were in possible contact with Mr. Duncan none of them have tested positive.

You would be better off being worrying about D68 and taking precautions from it than Ebola. Internationally, Ebola is a mere radar blip compared to malaria or seasonal flu.

Ebola is a virus and as such can mutate without giving the science and medical professionals heads up.
We've seen it over and over again in other viral diseases starting with the flu.

I am going to err on the side of extreme caution and general distrust on anything "they" have to say.

That's fine and your concern of mutation is accurate. Like any good, respectable virus it has mutated. Over and over. However, it has not changed the way it is transmitted in over a decade. And distrusting anything "they" have to say is also distrusting all the independent medical personnel that have been on the front lines for years.

http://www.nature.com/news/ebola-vir...preads-1.15777

The only reason folks are up in arms over Ebola is because it makes great press. If D68 were receiving the same level of press Ebola has folks were be scared skitless. We had a family meeting yesterday and talked about D68 with relation to the grandkids. At the rate it is spreading it certain to be coming to a family near you soon. If it hasn't already.

http://www.cdc.gov/non-polio-enterov...outbreaks.html

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Originally Posted by Rick

If D68 were receiving the same level of press Ebola has folks were be scared skitless

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It's beginning to get a fair amount of attention. The apparent paralytic cases should strike a bit closer to home for those who remember or have learned much about poliomyelitis, particularly given the close relation of Enterivirus D68 and poliovirus species. Of course one should keep in mind that they are about as closely related to rhinovirus group, and the predominance of the disease does seem to be respiratory in nature but if I had children - or loved ones who were not immunocompetent - I would be legitimately concerned.

I'm also keeping my eye on the rising prevalence of West Nile Virus, which has become extremely common in my area and is emergent in many states recently.

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If D68 were receiving the same level of press Ebola has folks were be scared skitless. We had a family meeting yesterday and talked about D68 with relation to the grandkids. At the rate it is spreading it certain to be coming to a family near you soon. If it hasn't already.

http://www.cdc.gov/non-polio-enterov...outbreaks.html

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Oh, believe me, I am just as concerned about D68 and we have a building full of kids. And crowds the minute we step outside.

As far as trusting or distrusting all the independent medical personnel that have been on the front lines for years: what I really distrust is the disemination of information to the general public. Not necessarily lying, but not telling the entire truth for fear of igniting panic. So...unless one has the time to study it all as though it was for a dissertation (I don't) the only thing to do is be super-duper cautious and read between the lines when common sense dictates.

Our governor has been giving speeches that "it's highly unlikely that ebola will ever come to MA." There was a scare yesterday and they still have not confirmed the patient in Boston does not have ebola (not showing ALL the CDC symptoms.) But it's that simple, Governor. All someone has to do is get off the plane at Logan INTERNATIONAL airport and stay a week or two. It doesn't matter that there are no direct flights to Africa. Those things called "connections" ring a bell? http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opi...m_dubai_flight

Anyway, I'm not particularly fearful of this ebola. Just cautious. Always.
Now a flu that knocks me on my butt for a week. That is far more likely and would suck.

In fact, Mr. Dunkin did a connecting flight through Brussels to Washington to Dallas. Could just as easily have been Brussels to Washington to Boston.

Texas health officials say second healthcare worker at Dallas hospital tests positive for Ebola.


http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/1...ospital-tests/

I just saw that. That's terrible.

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Originally Posted by canid

I just saw that. That's terrible.

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Yep there it goes, another case nobody knew about that has been running around in public, and is infected. That virus can actually survive on a dry surface I think for 4 hours. So the nurse wipes her mouth or nose, goes to the mall, touches door handles, clothes hangers, hand rails, elevator buttons, any number of things can get touched!
Then little kids in the mall touch the same things and are always putting their fingers in their mouths. Now I am not a viral expert, but mathematically there are huge odds that this disease can spread like wildfire. All it is going to take is one infected contageous person to be out in public for a few days and it is going to explode!
If this stuff is so hard to get, then why have 2 nurses got it so far when they were fully gowned up. What chance does a normal person in a public environment have if they touch surfaces where an infected person has been, not much in my opinion.
I still think that stuff is far more contageous than they are saying!

I don't think you understand ebola.

Okey Dokey. You're probably right. We're all gonna die. Go back and read post 62. The CDC was very up front in saying they expected additional health care workers to test positive.

It isn't even spreading like wildfire in Africa where people take patients back home to self treat then wash the bodies after they die. It's tough to catch it. It has an infection rate of R1-2. You have to come in direct contact with an infected person's body fluids. The virus can only live outside the body in body fluids that have dried (several hours) or in liquid body fluids (several days). I doubt any nurse is going to walk around with fluids on themselves and let them dry in place or stay wet for days.

From the Federation of American Scientists:

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Delivery: Person-to-person transmission requires close contact with an infected individual or items used by an infected individual. Ebola could be intentionally transmitted by an infected individual. Currently, it is not possible to aerosolize Ebola in dry form. The possibility of transmission via aerosolized liquid droplets (such as produced by sneezing) is speculated but unconfirmed.

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http://fas.org/programs/ssp/bio/fact...factsheet.html

WebMD:

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Other ways to get Ebola include touching contaminated needles or surfaces.

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http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/e...irus-infection

CNN:

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…some of the nation's top infectious disease experts worry that this deadly virus could mutate and be transmitted just by a cough or a sneeze.

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Ebola is an RNA virus, which means every time it copies itself, it makes one or two mutations. Many of those mutations mean nothing, but some of them might be able to change the way the virus behaves inside the human body. (snip)

Dr. James Le Duc, the director of the Galveston National Laboratory at the University of Texas, said the problem is that no one is keeping track of the mutations happening across West Africa, so no one really knows what the virus has become. (snip)

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http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/12/health/ebola-airborne/index.html

This from the chief of UN Ebola Mission:

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There is a ‘nightmare’ chance that the Ebola virus could become airborne if the epidemic is not brought under control fast enough, the chief of the UN’s Ebola mission has warned.

Anthony Banbury, the Secretary General’s Special Representative, said that aid workers are racing against time to bring the epidemic under control, in case the Ebola virus mutates and becomes even harder to deal with.

“The longer it moves around in human hosts in the virulent melting pot that is West Africa, the more chances increase that it could mutate,” he told the Telegraph. “It is a nightmare scenario [that it could become airborne], and unlikely, but it can’t be ruled out.”

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...to-the-US.html

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Originally Posted by canid

I don't think you understand ebola.

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I don't think anyone really understands ebola.

Okay. I give. Ya'll can worry yourself silly over it. If you want to worry about maybes, might bes, could bes, and not about what's actually happening today go ahead. Yeah, it could become transmissible person to person but it's not. An asteroid could drop a ton of gold in my back yard but I don't think that's likely either.

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Originally Posted by Rick

Okay. I give. Ya'll can worry yourself silly over it. If you want to worry about maybes, might bes, could bes, and not about what's actually happening today go ahead. Yeah, it could become transmissible person to person but it's not. An asteroid could drop a ton of gold in my back yard but I don't think that's likely either.

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Well, I already feel better now that you put it in the right context for me. :smartass:
Who knew...?!

Right now my greatest concern is that last month Ebola was 5,000 miles away, last week Ebola was 950 miles from my home, and this week it has been brought to within 250 miles of the house.

At that rate within two more weeks I will not be answering the door when the bell rings.

My point is you are worried about something that might happen. HIV could become airborne but it hasn't. A whole lot more folks are infected with that than Ebola and no one is worried that HIV will mutate. Now THAT would be a disaster of epic proportions. All I'm trying to do is post current information and suggest that there are other more dangerous diseases that we should be preparing for (D68).