Okay VW, I don't know liters, but according to US calvary, the large Alice pack has 3800 cubic inches of room. I hope that works.Quote:
Originally Posted by volwest
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Okay VW, I don't know liters, but according to US calvary, the large Alice pack has 3800 cubic inches of room. I hope that works.Quote:
Originally Posted by volwest
Quote:
Originally Posted by volwest
You don't have to use the external frame, however I've seen them for sale in used/good condition with the frame for under $50. They also have 3 large external pouches, 3 small external pouches, a pouch hidden in the top flap, and an interior pocket that can hold a water bladder! Check it out at www.uscav.com; check under A.L.I.C.E. packs. Funny, I figured an old military hand like yourself would have known about 'em!;)
Maps definitely great to have, and with them a compass.
Some kind of light, like a crank flashlight or lantern. The crank style because you can use it and crank at the same time. It needs to be fairly tough though.
Any thoughts?
With the area maps, essential. Were you guys down with the little axe? I'm good with either knife, never owned a k-bar but have heard nothing but good about them, and I agree on the straight edge.
60-65 liter pack should be plenty.
I am kind of torn either way. Yeah it is only 72 hours, but what happens after? and how much constant light will we need? But on the other hand is it worth the energy? I doubt it so I guess I have talked myself out of that... lol I have a mid size one that i use for work and I haven't changed the batteries yet.
LED's are my choice!
Well.... For 72 hours? Why? Why not? I have one and keep it at home actually, but I don't expect to use it really, I don't live close enough to anywhere to use it but if I did i would probably put it in there.Quote:
Originally Posted by volwest
So that's a relative item.
What about for fire? it's just 72 hours so a waterproof case of matches would definitely have it covered IMO, but I would also bring my magnesium match. possibly a lighter.
Here's a thought, we're talking bug-out, right? Not "hunker-bunker" mentality? An led light is good, but the new battery-less "shake-up" flashlights are better as you don't have to continuously check the batteries.;)
LED's are good, I own a few myself. Although I think emergency candles would be a good addition.:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by volwest
I think the problem here is that we are getting too specific as each of us are listing what we personally would use. Perhaps we need to be more generic in our list, for example, instead of listing the A.L.I.C.E pack you could list: Pack: X amount of litres/cubic inches capacity Minn., or some such. This way anybody could pick up whatever's available locally in their area at a price they feel they can afford? Also, could you list how to find that site that gave the Govt.'s 72 hour list? I'd like to read it.Quote:
Originally Posted by volwest
then become more specific through the critiquing process..I agree with volwest about the compass, most people don't know what to do with them any way. I can leave the axe behind (pouting, but I can) So we each put together something, and then become more specific as we critique in terms of brands or sizes, weights etc. Just from what I've read so far I'm certain we'll all be pretty close with one another any way.
-back pack aprox 60 liters or 5000 cubic inches
-Bic lighter (adjustable)
-matches in water proof container (strike anywhere)
-flash light / batteries (LED)
-emergency candle in a cigar tube container
-whistle
-star flash mirror
-maps (city/town/village-state)
-button compass
-potable aqua water purifier tablets
-army canteen with cup
-72 hours of food (MRE's)
-USMC poncho
-hat / gloves (leather gloves imo)
-cotton bandana
-extra pair of socks
-KA-BAR
-multi tool (Leatherman "wave")
-duct tape (wrapped around something else so save space if you need to)
-100 feet of 550
-monocular / binocular
-trash bags (large heavy duty)
-cell phone
-pen and paper
-safety pins
-AM / FM portable radio (crank?)
-first aid kit
-prescription medication
-important documents (passports, birth certificates...)
I would add one more way to light a fire, the magnesium match. Saves your other fire starters.
Also, two way radios are an option.
blanket preferably wool blendQuote:
Originally Posted by spiritman
reflective blanket
heavy duty plastic sheeting
If you have the money you could get an alpaca wool blanket. Alpaca wool is more expensive then sheep’s wool but its also stronger, warmer, softer, and it weighs less. An alpaca is an animal that look kind of like a lama but cuter and they breed them for their fiber.Quote:
Originally Posted by nell67
I use the "Sportsman's All-weather Blanket" made by MPI. It's the original space blanket with the grommets in the corners and can double as a heat-reflecting tarp.:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by volwest
Hmmm, guess I won't send you one for your birthday then, huh?:DQuote:
Originally Posted by volwest
-back pack aprox 60 liters or 5000 cubic inches
-Bic lighter (adjustable)
-matches in water proof container (strike anywhere)
-flash light / batteries (LED)
-emergency candle in a cigar tube container
-whistle
-star flash mirror
-maps (city/town/village-state)
-button compass
-potable aqua water purifier tablets
-army canteen with cup
-72 hours of food (MRE's)
-USMC poncho
-hat / gloves (leather gloves imo)
-cotton bandana
-extra pair of socks
-KA-BAR
-multi tool (Leatherman "wave")
-duct tape (wrapped around something else so save space if you need to)
-100 feet of 550
-monocular / binocular
-trash bags (large heavy duty)
-cell phone
-pen and paper
-safety pins
-AM / FM portable radio (crank?)
-first aid kit
-prescription medication
-important documents (passports, birth certificates...)
REGIONAL/OPTIONAL
-extra ways to start a fire ex: Magnesium match
-two way radios
Cold Weather:
-blanket preferably wool blend
-reflective blanket
Hot Weather:
-Collapsible plastic water container 3-5 gal. (you can fold it up when it's empty
I'd add that collapsible water carrier for any environment. For blankets, you can't beat down-filled for lightweight and warm, but the price of your kit just went way up if you go for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by volwest
should also include a detailed list of medications in an airtight, waterproof plastic bag inside the first aid kit and another copy on your person,should the unthinkable happen tand the medications themselves are missing include your personal physicians name and phone number on this list.
sure, I'll do it,I'll start with what I carry in mine,I have 4 ,and they pretty much the same in each.
Just let me go through one and I list it .
medical and medication allergies have to be part of that list....Quote:
Originally Posted by volwest
What would you change?
1 case
1 Bandages Plastic Assorted
- (1"x3", 3/4"x3", 5/8"x2 1/4") 60/box
5 Bandages Plastic 2"x4.5"
1 Bio-Waste Bag 1 Gallon 11"x14"
3 Burn Jel Packettes 1/8 oz.
20 BZK Towelettes
2 Cold Pack Unit
1 Compress 4"x4"
4 Cotton-tip Applicators 3" 2 pk
1 emergency blanket
1 Elastic Bandage 3"x5yds.
1 Eye Pads Medium
1 Eye Wash 1 oz.
1 First Aid Guide
1 Gauze Pads Sterile 3"x3" (10/box)
4 Gloves, Vinyl
1 Roll Gauze 4"x4yds
1 Scissor lister bandage 4 1/2"
1 Tweezers
4 Sting Relief Towelettes
1 Tape 1/2"x10 Uncovered
1 Triangular Bandage 40"x40"
10 Triple Antibiotic Ointment Packettes
This is the kit as I purchased it,to it I added
1 tube of super glue
a sewing kit
small bottle of alcohol
small bottle of peroxide
additional vynel gloves
butterfly type tape
1 epi-pen- requires script
1 ace bandage
safety pins
sterile water
additional plastic bags to dispose of waste
pen/marker and paper
do not laugh at this one ,1 package of feminine hygeine products
for obvious reasons,plus they also make excellent absorbant pads for large wounds(use the ace bandage to secure in place)
Looks good to me, add in the information sheet with necessary meds, blood types and med. allergies (unless that's there and I missed it, in which case I apologize profusely)
haha you got me,I was sitting there looking at the med list and didnt even add it to my list,I do have an epi-pen listed(for severe alergic reactions),in my medi-cabinet I also have meds for poison ivy prescription for steroid tabs,and anti itch creams and such but not in my basic kit (yes I consider this my basic kits).Quote:
Originally Posted by trax
I do not include other than a triangular "sling" a method to stabilize a fracture,anything strong found in your surroundings may be used as long as the break does not go through the skin,I once ace bandaged my daughters arm to my arm when she was kicked by a horse ,I could not have done that if I had had to drive (her right arm) hubby drove,but my arm was the most suitable thing around for her injury,the doctor himself said he would not have thought of that but it was a good idea.
I'm allergic to nothing, but I know people who have to carry those epi-pens full time and I know people allergic to.....here goes...aspirin, penicillin, morphine, now the rest of the list escapes me just cuz I'm trying to show off, but you get what I mean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trax
hehe! my mother was allergic to penecillin ,ANY type of numbing agent stitches were taken without being numb,my duaghter is severly allergic to the bite of a common house spider.
VolwestQuote:
Originally Posted by volwest
Never talked with you before but thought I would bring up a few items that might be worthwhile.
Combination carbide and ceramic sharpener for knife
3 watt led Minimag flashlight with extra set batteries
Steripen to disinfect water uses UV light
Emergency Cell Phone Charger (uses 1 AA battery)
Bottle insect repellent
Package of Wet Ones
Small pair Bonoculars
Here is the problem I see with the kits, and don't misunderstand me, I have several in the cars and house. One, they have to be specific. What I mean is you have to know what you are trying to survive, what season, and what part of the country you're going to be in.. My bugout kit is setup to get me to East Texas where I have relatives in the country. I also have setup at the house equipment and supplies for 60 days. I figure that will take care of most emergencies until help arrives. If help does not show, then it's time to leave anyway. Like you, I live in a major metropolitan area (Dallas/Fort Worth) with a combined population base of 4 to 5 million. I believe things could get really bad here really quick. The point I'm trying to make is that these kits are for short term survival only. I'm not an expert and don't pretend to be, but I have taught survival to Boy Scouts, gone on weekend, one week, and two week survival treks and unless we brought food (which we weren't allowed to do) we always finished up as very hungry campers. This is with firearms and a fair knowledge of edible plants. I cannot imagine trying to take care of my family under those circumstances and keep them fed, sheltered, and protected. Again, don't misunderstand I have kits for those eventualities like everyone else, and I use them regularly trying to become more proficient,I just don't believe they're viable long term. What makes the most sense to me is having a preprepared location to go to, whether it is a remote retreat, a weekend farm, or a relative's home in the country. At that point if there is a long term disaster scenario, you have the ability to store food and water, have a garden, and still hunt if possible. One other thing. Have you ever went deer hunting on the first day of the season? The deer are nowhere to be found because all the people in the woods. What do you think will happen if just 1 million of the 4 million people in this area decide to evauate to the country. By the way, I'm addressing this to you because I went to your website and figured if anyone would know, it would be you. Anybody else, feel free to jump in also. Does this make sense to you?
Like the tube of neosporin,it is reclosable ,the packets are not,and I agree with all of the suggestions,these were prepackaged kits I added to and I am always looking out for more to add to them,I know that there should be a weight/size resriction also so have been looking at what I can add that can do "doubleduty" in my first aid kit (like the hygeine products,they have more than one purpose).Quote:
Originally Posted by volwest
good point vol
I would love to have one of the army medic kits,lots of great stuff in those,Ihave been eyeing one online for a month or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by volwest
I keep adding to mine because since my husband is diabetic,even a scratch on his leg could become dangerous very fast,and I find the kits I purchased at the local shop not very well put together for treating wounds for people like him and not just diabetics,and I realize that in a situation where we would need to "bug out" puts him at a much higher risk for infection,and medical treatment could be a long way off.
One thing I have in my car kit that I did not list,is a seperate indentifiable diabetic kit,it includes all testing supplies,an isulin pen that does not require refridgeration,glucose tabs and juice boxes ,in case his sugar goes too low.
These are additional items in my kit and of course not every one will need to keep these in their kit.
I can't help but wonder how all this will affect the average person who doesn't know squat about Survival, the equipment needed, or even the inclination to shell out more green for the better quality gear? Also, looking back at the Govt.'s list I think they listed so much stuff thinking that some of it might be better than none and let folks pick out what they've already got of could afford to buy.:cool:
I think you're right about the gov't list. The main point being is that some equipment and supplies are better than no equipment at all. Most people have made no preparations at all. That is who this list is for, not for people like us who try and plan in advance. You guys are also correct about people tending to buy the cheapest stuff unless thet are familiar with the equipment and actually use it. I try and get the best value for my money regardless of the total costs because if something happens and you have to use this stuff, I want the best I can afford. I don't want it to break at a critical point while I am using it. You're not going to be able to replace things when they break. That's why my primary tools are the best I can afford but I buy some midpriced and inexpensive spares. Perfect example would be my knives (notice I said s as in plural) My main knife is a Cold Steel Trailmaster bowie that I have had for 20 years. I paid $175 for it back then and have never regretted it. It uses San Mai steel. You have a carbon steel center layer sandwiched between two layers of stainless. The carbon can be made razor sharp and the stainless gives it flexibility and strength. The blade can be bent 40 degrees and still return to true. I have given it heavy use for twenty years and it is almost indestructible. It comes with a black cordura sheath to which I have added a spandex wrap which holds a hacksaw blade in back and a flat frog gig. My backup is a folding Gerber lockback with a half serrated edge, and the backup for that is a Leatherman Wave Tool. Than I have half a dozen misc. folders and sheath knives for spares or family. Too many people just buy the cheapest they can get and expect them to perform on a level of tools costing many times more. You pay for what you get and you get what you pay for.
I don't carry the spares in my kits, they are at the house. The Gerber goes in my pocket when I put on my pants.
Sorry Vol, we had to reject this post, it's about 5000 words too short!:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by volwest
Back to this again. I started a thread awhile back about picking a leader. Obviously the odds are against picking a group, you take the cards you're dealt. However if I could pick a group based on what I've learned from the guys here the choice would be the following.
Vol-West
Owl-Girl
Foggy
RiM (he could even have his 5 relatives)
Trax
Wareagle 69
Marscroft
That's seven right off the top of my head, although I'm sure there's more, just can't remember them all. Assuming that everyone has come through whatever survival situation we face unscathed I would not suggest picking a leader, but rather forming a team. The knowledge displayed by this group suggests that all know what to do and each would use their particular skills for the better of the group. If the group is even numbered there maybe to be a"tie-breaker" selected in case voting is used. This, of course, is the best-case scenario. No one really ever knows with who, what, where, when, why, or how they might wind up. Nor do they know the state of their fellow survivors in any given situation. After all it's not a perfect world, and Murphy is still running around on the loose.;)
Use that skin pad, pilgrim,
before you lose all your fingers.
Whatever you learned down in the flat
will serve you no good up here.
You got some work to do.
Thanks, Sarge
Aww thanks Sarge.
When you trust the people your with its not that difficult to form a team however if your with a bunch of strangers who are reckless and headstrong it could take a long time to function as a team.
[QUOTE=Sarge47;5700]
RiM (he could even have his 5 relatives)
QUOTE]
I am not sure what you mean by this. Did I post something about this?
...except that one guy..Trax?...he gets a little weird, what? oh um, never mind...:D :D :D