I'd like to put my toe next to the line for a second and say, I agree with Becks' message today. To hang in there because, when the money runs out which side do you want to be on? JMO, it will be survival.
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I'd like to put my toe next to the line for a second and say, I agree with Becks' message today. To hang in there because, when the money runs out which side do you want to be on? JMO, it will be survival.
:gagged::gagged:
I think Beck has the wrong take on the future. We now have a right to mandatory health insurance and the next shoe to drop will be your right to mandatory employment.
I just heard on the local news that the Attorneys General in 13 states are considering a challenge on constitutional grounds, including Indiana. We already have a health program in place for the poor (HIP) and the governor is p@#$# because the federal law will do away with the program.
The AG of Florida is bringing the case, and has 12 co-signers (I think). There are going to be so many lawsuits about this.
The Supreme Court would have to make a stunning departure from precedent in order to throw it out. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. :innocent:
*sigh* I'm with ya, Ken. I'm with ya. :sneaky2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken
However, this bill is forcing people to do just that. Get insurance or get fined.Quote:
Originally Posted by your_comforting_company
There are now 38 states that are suing over this bill being unconstitutional...this thing is far from over...
What if the states get together, and request a whatchamacallit...to make a new amendment to the constitution?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken
That's the thing...the states don't want this either. In the end your state taxes will be what pays for this bill...and many states simply can't pay it. Not to mention they know that the government has no rights under the constitution to force us to purchase something like that. They don't want to change the constitution to allow for it...they just don't like it.
No need for a Constitutional Convention (you really don't want one - they open up the whole thing) because it is already not in there - forcing citizens to buy something.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit
Wonder how many young folks will loose their homes because they have to purchase insurance with the money they now use to pay their mortgage.
I guess it's a good thing that our government is setting our personal priorities and making our personal choices for us! :) Now if they would only decide if I should order "original recipe" or "extra crispy." :blushing: I have a really tough time with THAT choice. :innocent:
Back up a bit to post #86. :cool2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
... and getting it.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit
Ya gotta buy auto ins to drive,, just sayin'
But if you choose not to own a car, you are not required to buy auto insurance. With health care you will have no choice. That's kind of one of the points. Just sayin'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Case
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Case
And it's insurance for damage/injury to others.Quote:
Originally Posted by crashdive123
"Two wrongs don't make a right" but along the same kind of thinking as "Bush did it"Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Case
I'm conflicted on this issue. My children are both adopted through the state foster care system. Along with my children came medicaid/medicare for them until they turn 18 at no cost to us.
For the first few years I put them on my policy. When the rates continued to rise, I took the state healthcare up on their policy full time instead of part time. My daughter is CP and there is no way in hell that we could have ever paid for her medical through my policy or what I make. Example, specialist doctors who charge $250.00 an hour. Now, not taking anything away from the docs, they are good. So good that my daughter is living a great life under their care.
With this new healthcare, my daughter will never have to worry about getting coverage when she gets older. She is also legally blind. But on the other hand, if anyone thinks that their premiums are not going to go up, WAKE UP. Not to mention we now have a gov. that is forcing you to purchase something that some may not want to buy.
I think this is a step backwards and could have been handled completely different. Unfortunately, the Repo's are as much to blame as the Dem's. The Repo's will keep it in the lime light in hopes to get control in November, not even addressing why under an 8 year rule, they did nothing. The perscription drug policy they pushed through, they did it just like the Dems did this healthcare policy. Backroom deals.
I think Al Sharpton said it best when they asked him if Obama was a socialist with his programs, he said "If the people did not want socialism, then they would not have voted Obama in as president."
It's going to take alot to bounce back from this one as it not just affects healthcare. It sets precidents on gov. and it's future control.
Ya know what,, This whole thing started out to be like Canada, it has been so watered down it aint worth a squat anyway, You guys complain about the rich having to pay for it, well guess what, If we had universal health care there would be less people claiming disability and welfare because they got sick,, Nothing you do or say will stop this government from taxing everybody for every cent it can. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it ! ;)
Someone do some quick math. They are going to spend $1.5 trillion, (estimated, and we know what gov't estimates are like.) to insure 10 million people for 6 years or less. How much does that work out to be...per person, per month?
You really should tak a look at the legislation. If you think it's about the rich vs poor, you are way off base. When you say "you guys complain ....." Who is saying that? If you think that's what it is about, you truly do not understand it. Taxes on most of it start immediately. Because of your work situation you may say that it won't affect you. Think again. In my first post in this thread I alluded to it, but this bill is a jobs killer! IMO intentionally so to get more people to the single payer system and do away with private insurance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Case
Isn't that a little over $2,000 per month, per person, for minimal health insurance?Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit
With that big a group, I bet you could insure them for less than $500 per person per month. Where is the other $1,500 per person, per month going???
If your starting figures are correct, that number seems darn close, 2dumb.
Actually, I believe the reported figures ar about 33,000,000 additional people would be covered. About $600/person/month
Granted, I did "assume" a couple of things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken
1. Number of people covered.
The info that I have seen, says that the number of people who don't have health ins. that can't afford it, and aren't eligable for schip, medicare etc., is around 10 million.
2. They are calling it just shy of a trillion dollars, but that includes stealing .5 trillion from medicare. I don't think they will pull that off. I call that 1.5 trillion. (But I expect at least 5 times that.)
3. They really aren't covering anyone for the first 4 or more years, of that 10 year time frame, so I'll call that 6 years.
I have to make a correction here.... It is the progressive held congress not the democrats. the democrat party is now officially dead. There is a reason our founders created a Republic and not a democracy, and this is it!
That figure is BS, in my book.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken
They are claiming way more people than they should, and they are not claiming cost that in the plan, they will steal from other places.
(See post 115.)
Now what?
After it's all said and done, more has been said than can actually be done by any of us.
I think continuing in this vain is just fanning the flames under the guise of "education". What are people supposed to do with that knowledge anyway?
In light of everything, does anyone have any advice or is it just about misery loves company, we're all going down?
So just WHAT are you going to do different in your life. There is a lot of stuff to be thinking about. If taxes are going to escalate, do you want to close your 401K today or wait and close it when the taxes are higher. What about Unearned income, or passive income. If you think taxes over-all are going up, do you take Long term Capital gains now or wait till it is taxed as regular income. If you could sell your house and take the one time tax free $500,000.00 profit, or wait till it is repealed. Buy the small farm now or wait till inflation makes it three times as expensive.
You can do something........or do nothing. Some don't have any options, but a lot of you'all do have options. As the large cities go bankrupt and can't sell bonds, and reduce Law Enforcement, do you stay in the big city, or move more rural. For example some of you have money, but need to stay in the city. You could buy a farm, and have another member here caretake, or run the farm for you, (Nell comes to mind), hypothetically.
I have my place for sale and if it sold I would buy (or maybe lease for 15 years) a place in America where there is lots of food and few people, Nebraska or Iowa or Kansas. And buy a houseboat in South-East Alaska.
My point is DO SOMETHING, Take affirmative action.
I'd say educating people to the details of what this means, and what it will do, will help people be better prepared for the future, and help cause them to hold their representatives accountable.Quote:
Originally Posted by BENESSE
I think that is very worthwhile.
Yes it is...somewhere there is a dumb cowboy that doesn't understand any of this crud! OK so we are going to slap a 10% tax on tanning salons to pay for people who cannot afford health insurance???? What has a tanning salon got to do with health insurance?Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit
This might seem political but it's just common sense....
This law and everything about this administration in cahoots with the legislature is financially unsustainable. We will pay for this for 4 years before anything with it other than the tax increases happening. Yet it won't be enough. They have increased spending to be above GDP. You can't do that. Yes it is that simple. They HAVE bankrupted the country.
That's about all people can do if they disagree with how things were done.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit
Come to think of it, that's EXACTLY how we got here. What more proof does one need that the system works?
my comments were tongue in cheek :)Quote:
Originally Posted by crashdive123
Now I know why the company lawyer was on the phone all day.Quote:
Companies with more than 50 employees with get hit with a $2000 per employee fee if the government has to provide any portion of the health care. That's a small business by anyone's standards.
I have nothing to say about this other than some people somewhere voted themselves a free lunch. Now someone else has gotta make it for em and serve it too.
Sourdough makes a good point. I've been considering what to do with the 401k. I don't like the idea of deferred taxes. Or paying into something that has a tendency to lose money (though I didn't get hit too hard with most in interest bearing rather than stocks. Slow I know, but safer). and I do think my long term plans have just accelerated.
I may be simple minded, but makes sense to me. Basic arithmetic really.Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosierarcher
What do you mean, "what to do with the 401K"? I hope you aren't considering cashing it in. That's not only taxable income but also penalized at 10% for early withdrawal. You'll never make your money back if you do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
No penalty if your over 59, also you assume it will be escalating in a period of inflation, also if taxes go up 40% maybe you might wish you had extracted it sooner than later. I am not saying do it, I am saying plan, plan, think. If you think taxes are going DOWN over the next 20 years, you should wait. Like that will happen.
I'm not real political. Dem vs Rep, Con vs Lib, whatever...we are all going to the same goal. Question is do you want to be pushed or pulled.
That said, we do need changes in the health care system. A lot of good folks die, that can't afford to live. Health care should never be withdrew or terminated based on the ability to pay, to an extent.
But then I'm an oddball and believe that its every humans right to choose how they die and when they die.
A 2 tiered system has its advantages.
Just my .02
-Boker