Hey, I agree with you. I'm not correcting anyone's writing; I'm simply pointing out that to claim that "if you don't know every wild edible you die" is an overstatement -- and equally dangerous. There are methodologies to survival outside of "living it," and it's not rocket science. We are all at different levels of training, and to me it's better to respect that than talk down to people. No offense intended, of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by LowKey
I do support the edibility test. I learned an abject lesson in Phoenix last year. I suddenly found myself in a desert environment that is completely outside my knowledge base. If I had to try and survive in that environment for any length of time the edibility test would have been the only tool I could have relied on in order to eat.
Nothing takes the place of knowledge and experience but it sure taught me how quickly you can find yourself in a foreign environment and you don't have to go all that far to find it.
First, there are a lot of "professional" (and I use this term loosely!) survival instructors whom teach the "taste & wait" technique. As well as, instructors that say "watch what the animals eat", but let me tell you, with 30 years of teaching experience, I have NEVER and I mean NEVER said to any of my students either of the aforementioned statements. The best thing to do is get a book on wild edible plants (with color pictures) and carry it with you, at least until you learn the wild edibles in your area.Quote:
Shankfisher wrote:"You should be careful what you condemn. This is a general rule, widely taught by professional, credible survival experts. As for mushrooms, the answer is simple; I was trained simply to not eat mushrooms. And as for the edibility test being crap, well, this is exactly what you'll encounter in E&E training. Certainly real expertise trumps the test, but nevertheless, this is not "crap" advice. YMMV.
Second, on a forum like this, giving ANYONE advice to try any plant, is at least, dangerous. There may be some newbies that take the advise posted to heart, and could become sick, deathly-ill, or even possibly die from what they've read on here. Again, the best advice is: "get a book on wild edible plants (with color pictures) and carry it with you, at least until you learn the wild edibles in your area."
I do agree with WE. Watching what the animals eat DOES NOT assure that we can eat the same things. There are MANY foods that animals eat, that if we ate them, would make us very sick or even possibly kill us.Quote:
Wareagle69 wrote:"No need to be careful condemning not eating what animals eat. you don't know me so let me give you a heads up. i am also well trained as an army ranger been around lots of operatives, i have been to wild edibles schools and train with one of the best in the world in allan beauchamp also train with a native elder and a woman who lives in the bush, while a fellow named tammarack song will suggest watching the animals to learn from them, we do not eat what they eat, we eat them. i would like to know who has trained you. sorry to say you are way off and would likely harm someone here with your info, i am sure you feel strongly about what you have been taught, but personally you might want to do allot more research when it comes to wild edibles, this is not something that i study it is what i live, please do not read more into this than is intended i mean only to educate you, and help you along in your training. if i do not mean any offense with my post."
My Lakota Elder guide taught me to break the leaf or stem in half and rub it on your arm and wait to see if you have a reaction. If not, then rub a little spot on the inside of your lip and/or tongue and wait. If no reaction then eat a very small piece of the leaf and, again, wait.
Now, just because you didn't have any reaction doesn't mean that you can't get sick from that particular plant. Eating a small quantity may do nothing at all, but consuming a larger quantity may make you nauseated, sick, deathly ill, or even kill you. Everything in moderation!
Lastly, I have a lot of respect for the military. I have very close, personal friends in the military. But, just because the military teaches something does not make it "gospel"! I have been to and observed a couple of military survival courses. While they were okay, I wouldn't teach their curriculum on a daily basis. I have had men and women, whom are active Navy, Marines & Air Force, go through my 14 day survival course. I mean the courses where thy have nothing with them except the clothing on their bodies. All of them stated that they learned how to actually "stay alive" if a survival situation arose, and that they could survive "without" any provisions if hey had to! And I've had many referrals from them for other Mil. men & women whom have taken and are going to take my course.
Yes, obviously this is true . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by Nativedude
First, I never gave anyone any advice to try any plant. Please do not rephrase my statement and try to make a point. I find that quite offensive, on a couple of levels.
And yes, of course, simply eating what animals eat without an edibility test is not recommended -- not the least of which because animals and humans don't digest food anything alike (ever seen a cow's stomach?). And when your Lakota elder gave you instructions -- you just repeated the edibility test I have spoke of already. Again, why you feel the need to repeat that -- and yet mock the "professionals" who teach the same thing, I don't know.
Look guys, there is no one here to impress. If you've got advanced training in eating wild foods, great. But twice I now I have heard of folks with training from NAs as if that IS "gospel." I know some NAs who will tell you they know nothing about skills in the wild. So trotting that out does not impress either. If you have some skills, good on you. I hope that works for you, but don't condemn. And certainly, please, treat people with the respect and close reading they deserve. That's just basic courtesy . . .
With all due respect, Shank, WE would get my vote before anyone else, be careful who you "diss".:smash:Quote:
Originally Posted by shankfisher
Who did I diss? And how exactly did I diss them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarge47
Even Les Stroud, when he had a lot of Wild edible "plants" nearby said that they, alone, would not sustain him for the 7 days that he would be out in the wilds & that he needed to find a way to add meat or fish to his larder. I agree that the plant-life is important, but cannot be used as the sole diet. Like WE says, watch what the animals eat, then use it as bait to trap them! (or something like that.):cool2:
Yeah, sure. Upthread I specifically said: "You'll find something to eat if you can do that testing. You can then eat a bit and keep your strength up to wait on a rabbit, squirrel, or fish trap. To live forever? No."Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarge47
This looks like you're "dissing" WE, IMO. If I had to choose 1 person to pick out of all the members of this site to help me survive in the wilds, WE would be that person. However, just remember, this is only MY opinion.:cool2:Quote:
Originally Posted by shankfisher
I don't get it. He was dissing the exact advice as "crap" that Nativedude put in his post. Was Nativdude also dissing WE?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarge47
I've spoken my piece, I'm just saying that WE has the credibility with me over anyone else on this site. It sounded to me like you were putting him down a bit & I mentioned it, that's all. I don't know you that well, so I guess I'm just watching & learning. BTW, I didn't see, Nativedude dissing WE over it, they were just exchanging opinions. It's not the advice that I'm reffering to, but the way things are being said.:cool2:Quote:
Originally Posted by shankfisher
First, I'm not mocking any one. But there are people whom claim to be "professional" survival instructors, yet the things that they teach can be detrimental to their students health and well being. And edible plants is NOT a subject to be taken lightly, nor are mushrooms!Quote:
Shankfisher wrote: ". . .why you feel the need to mock the "professionals" who teach the same thing, I don't know. . . .there is no one here to impress . . .
Second, As I stated before, There may be some newbies that take the advise posted on here to heart, and could become sick, deathly-ill, or even possibly, die from what they've read on here.
Third, I'm not trying to impress anyone. I'm trying to convey and impress upon others what I wrote in my second sentence!
I guess I should have been more specific in what I was referring to what War Eagle wrote.Quote:
WarEagle wrote: ". . .while a fellow named tammarack song will suggest watching the animals to learn from them, we do not eat what they eat, we eat them."
When it comes to survival, I never throw caution to the wind when it comes to others safety and well-being.
My knowledge of wild edibles, as I have stated before, is limited. That being said, I do not see that Shankfisher has offered any advice that would be contrary to what others have said, or harmful. I believe that the universal edibilty test has it's place, albeit a latter stage resort to sustaining yourself. Native Dude's teachings from the Lakota Elders sure seems to be along the lines of the universal edibility test. As with many things, knowledge is power - and learning more about wild edibles will improve your chances of survival in the wilds.
You know, the official side of this site speaks the UET (because, of course, it is just a publication of US Army FM 21-76). The fact is, there is safe and sorry, and I'd rather be safe than sorry. One should only eat something one has not tested and is not familiar with if one is starving and has exhausted all other options.
And, you know, it isn't JUST plants that'll kill you fast, there are also those that'll kill you slow. Something that'll give you kidney or liver failure you don't find out about until you've been out for 6 months.
Then you all are talking about who is professional or not, let me tell you a story about a professional.
So, we have hardwood floors, and we had cleaning ladies. And the cleaning ladies forgot one day to put the guard on their vacuums when doing the floors and so the beaterbrush tore off the gloss finish. I knew what caused it, the marks exactly matched the bottom of the vacuum. I insisted they pay to have it fixed. This woman, Vanessa, the manager of the cleaning company, came and insisted that because she was a "professional" interior designer and she had seen lots of hardwood floors she knew that the marks were from the original install and not her vacuums. (I let it go how she is a "professional" interior designer and yet is managing a cleaning company.) She called "her own" flooring installer to get his opinion, and he sided with me, saying he knew of no tool that could have caused the marks and that it was obvious a vacuum. She tried again "but but... I'm a professional interior designer." He wouldn't back down, boy was that fun. Later when he came back to do the work at their expense he confided that he wasn't very fond of Vanessa, and I admitted neither was I.
The moral of this story is, people call themselves professional all the time, much of the time they are not, or even if they are, it doesn't necessarily mean they're experts or know what they're doing. In the end, a professional is merely someone who has convinced someone else to pay them for something, it doesn't mean they are good at it.
One of my fortes as a webmaster is Search Engine Optimization, and I'm an expert at it, and for years and years, and still now, I'd see people on webmaster help forums simultaneously asking basic SEO questions while at the same time touting their "professional SEO consulting business" in their signature. Or blatantly touting things that have been proved to be false, such as say a doctor nowadays recommending bleeding to treat a fever. And in fact, some large and successful sellers of services would be making these mistakes, proving that knowledge on a topic and the ability to sell that topic to another person aren't always in a direct correlation.
So in the end, considering that, arguing about who is more "professional" is somewhat pointless. Especially in a field with no accepted standards. Let it be, and just do what you think is best for you, and let others take risks if they desire.
Afterall, if someone you meet on the Internet does something wrong, you'll probably never even know. It might make the local paper "Lost Hiker Dies After Accidentially Eating Poisonous Mushrooms" but you're a thousand miles away and don't get that paper.
That is pretty close to the UET.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nativedude
That doesn't make sense. Your elder taught you the edibility test above, but you don't teach it to your students, then you tell them to get a book and learn wild edibles, to carry the book until they do, but then neglect to tell them how to find wild edibles if they are in an unfamilar environment, left the book at home, or have lost it. I understand the UET isn't the safest thing you can do, but I'd rather be armed with the knowledge that might keep me alive if I'm going to die without food than not have it because someone thought it would be a liability because they didn't stress the dangers enough or whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nativedude
Seems like there's a difference of opinions here on the validity of the "edibility test." My thoughts are let everyone make their own decision on the matter. I don't see it as a "debatable" topic, & will tell you that, in all probability, I will never use it. If I don't know for a fact what it is I'm eating, then I'm not going to eat it & that's that. You all can knock yourselves out & if you ever have to use it, hopefully you'll come out alright. (urp.):cool2:
Here are a couple of sites that might help folks along the learning trail:
http://foragingpictures.com/
http://www.sacredearth.com/
Nice links. Thanks, Rick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Good links - thanks.
Not possible in many areas of NA. The local natives lived on a diet of 95% Meat and Meat Products. So way can anyone say they could live off Wild Edibles in this area. You will never achieve your BMR. Maybe in some areas of the US, but not here.