Say what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonviper
How 'bout you work and pay for it yourself or, even better, study your beehind off and get an academic scholarship?
Just a suggestion.
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Say what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonviper
How 'bout you work and pay for it yourself or, even better, study your beehind off and get an academic scholarship?
Just a suggestion.
Have you looked at college tuition lately? Even working your way, you can't pay a 30k per year tuition without a college loan. And that's median.
The radio news after todays meeting with pro-gunownership groups is that it was more about "villifying the 2nd amendment" than listening to views.
I think the horse has the bit in his teeth and is gonna run this for all its worth.
I would just like to know exactly when I, or my friends, became the criminals here.
Because not one thing these supposedly anti-gun-violence people is proposing is going to do one damn thing about the true crime out there. But they are so violently anti-NRA they can't even begin to see that for themselves.
The NRA has 4 million members. Supposedly there are 40 million legally-licensed, law-abiding firearms owners in the US. You have to wonder why only 10% belong to the NRA. Yet the regular population envisions ALL gun owners as the stereotypical NRA 'gun nut'. Quite honestly, it's a stereotype that the NRA itself has fostered, especially through their written publications and mailings. I don't like the incendiary language they use and have always believed you can fight for 2nd amendment rights without being quite so over-the-top about it. If you have to work that hard to stir up the 4 million members you have, maybe you need to look at what you've done wrong to alienate the other 90% of gun owners out there. And maybe that's part of the answer to this whole mess.
Both sides need to step back, cool down, take off the blinders, look around, and think a little more carefully.
I know they don't want to do that as everyone is riding on the pressure of the moment, but everyone is running around screaming, hands in the air, lots of smoke and flames, and no one is even looking for the firehose.
<BTW, yes I'm a member of the NRA. They get my money. I get to participate in their sanctioned marksmanship matches. Although if they call my home phone one more time after 8pm looking for donations, I may not renew again.>
I agree with you LowKey. I too am a member, but they are pushy. Calls after 8pm, mailings out the wazoo, and don't mention the amount of e-mails.
I had hoped at the meeting today, both sides could have talked better. Oneside always jacks it up though and both side are notorious for doing it.
I am a member too...but they need to get better representatives in front of the public. More articulate with a longer fuse.
I don't think anyone will deny that the NRA asks for a lot. I don't think anyone denys that they do a lot. It's really just a matter of if you think your donations will support the cause for which you believe in....or if your money would better be spent on another cause that you believe in that is more important to you. Or perhaps you believe your money has no effect. I think it's pretty simple, "put your money where your mouth is".
If you want them to not call ask them to put you on their "Do Not Call List".
I do not get phone calls from the NRA after politely asking to not be called. I do get their mailings and don't mind them a bit.
For those who believe the NRA is too "pushy," and "over-the-top" and "inflamatory" in its statements revealing what the Far Left is trying to do to destroy our Rights regarding firearms, you should understand the fact that were it not for the National Rifle Association's many, many years fight against the Second Amendment hating politicians in D.C., and many States ... you, I, we, all of us, would not LEGALLY own a firearm today.
As for asking for money, it takes a tremendous amount of money for lobbying and fighting the incessant Marxist Socialist Fascist inspired legislation that is constantly introduced to ban and confiscate our firearms. Afterall, the political gun confiscators are heavily endowed with donations of millions upon millions of $$$$$$ from some of the richest men and women in the world. (Anyone here ever heard of George Soros, one of the richest men known today?) Yes, it takes a lot of money for the NRA to combat that unending flood of money from the astronomically wealthy do-right-daddies-and-mommas, whose goal is to "disarm America's citizens."
This fight has been going on for far, far longer than many here are aware. It did not just start after JFK was murdered, even though that was the impetus for the full court onslaught. President Franklin D. Roosevelt tried to get all guns banned. He did not succeed with his plan, but he did get the 1934 Gun Control Act passed. Over the years, bit by bit, more regulations were added. In 1968, Pres. Lyndon B. Johnson tried to get a full gun ban passed. He did not succeed ... but he got the 1968 Gun Control Act passed... and more regulatons have attached. And it goes on and on and on.
Note the compromises made by gunowners. We gave, the Left took, and gave up nothing. That is their SOP today.
It seems to some here that when the NRA warns its members as to the laws and plans being proposed by the Far Left, by exposing the details of said plans, it is deemed "inflamatory" and "over the top." Huh uh. The NRA is merely making public information that the Far Left does not want known.
If the NRA has a bad image as some here claim, it is because the media, academia, etc., have for many, many years, demonized the NRA, its members, and gun owners in general with incessant extremely biased diatribes. Their gigantic propaganda machine has turned us and the NRA into "filthy vermin" just as Hitler and Goebbels demonized the Jews until most Germans thought of Jews as "filthy vermin," who should be "dealt with."
When I lived in Los Angeles, I once had a guy I knew, a professional screenwriter, tell me that "The only good NRA member is a dead NRA member." Another said he hated, loathed and despised guns and he thought they all should be banned and confiscated ... by any means necessary. We're hearing the same talk today from our illustrious rulers in D.C.
This is what the NRA has to combat. I say again, the only reason we own firearms legally today is because of the NRA. Like the organization or not, the NRA is the only barrier we have against the total disarming of us... and the destruction of the U.S. Constitution.
I've been in this "gun fight" for a long, long time. I know whereof I speak (or type). This fight will continue long after I'm dead, you're dead, and your children (hopefully) have picked up the gauntlet.
What will be the eventual outcome? I don't know.
One thing of which I am 100% positive, however, is this. Never forget, these Far Left wannabee tyrants never, ever, disengage.
S.M. (NRA Life member)
My point though, is there is something about the NRA that is turning off the majority of gun owners. You'd think it would be that much easier to fight all those good fights if they could figure out what that is thing is. The more members the merrier.
I get their mailings. Have you ever really read that stuff. For instance several months ago they sent out letters that you were supposed to send to your congressman. Basically all it was was a mail bomb. The stuff they actually wrote in the letter was written with the intent to get the members pumped up enough to send it, not to really have any effect on the congressmen except for stuffing their mailbox which may have been the actual intent. The psychological impact scale on some of their material surely will turn off an anti-gunner immediately. It's barely palatable to me and I'm as pro-ownership as you can get. Like I said, I'm a member. I'm also a member of my state organization for even more immediate reasons. I don't cut off the nose to spite my face. There is a very thin, almost microscopic red line between having this right and not.
I write to my congressmen (not that it matters much here, but if you don't, you can't complain). We also have some real issues percolating at a state level that at least my local rep is smart enough to understand. And he fights because that is one of the reasons he got elected.
I even sent a real letter to Vice President Biden earlier this week.
Here's his contact info:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact-vp
Do the same.
Low Key, I certainly agree with much of your post and concerns. I have read the "Send to your Legislator" form letters and I never, ever use one. I write my own letters and have done so since I began fighting this battle many, many years ago.
But .... there are many gun owners, and NRA members included, who won't take the time and trouble to compose a short, polite letter to their representatives. Therefore, the form letter. It ain't perfect, but it's all some people will do to help.
I'm glad you're active in your State organization, plus the NRA, and you can be commended for it. Too many gun owners don't give a damn about protecting their/our Rights. I am a Life Member of the Calif. Rifle & Pistol Association, the Calif. Wildlife Federation, and the Idaho Rifle and Pistol Assoc. I can't even imagine the amount of money, plus time, I've donated over the years. Not bragging: others I know have done much, much more than I.
Hang in there. I have a good friend, a writer, who was a "real deal" U.S. Navy SEAL, Vietnam service. Once he and I were talking about training and getting through BUD/S training. He told me, "I was not the fastest in my class, nor the strongest, but I'd made up my mind that they could kill me but they could never make me quit. That's how I got through it."
I feel the same on this issue. We can never quit the fight no matter what they throw at us. They never, ever disengage. We must never quit fighting them tooth and nail. Our Freedom is at stake. (And that's no exaggeration.)
Best regards.
S.M.
Back on the Executive Action. There are four ways to nullify an Executive (call it what you want). Congress can override with a simple 2/3 majority. They can refuse to fund it, it can be challenged through the courts or a combination thereof (refuse to fund and challenge through courts for example). The Constitution is a remarkable document and goes to great lengths to ensure no tyrant runs the country. It doesn't protect us from idiots being in office unfortunately.
...nor from our own stupidity from voting them in or letting others do it foe us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Rick, but in order for the EO to be countermanded, doesn't someone have to start the proceedings? Right now it seems everyone who could be on the side of lawful gun owners is hiding under their desk in Washington. I don't think they're voices are being drowned out. I don't think anyone is stepping up.
one thing the anti gun movement has is a central point of focus. like much of the liberal movement, they are organized, focused and vocal. they do an amazing job of fundraising through groups like moveon and have a huge following. they work together and push a liberal agenda. this is one thing the conservative movement really lacks, sadly. there are alot of voices but they tend to be scattered among a wide array of groups. Like the NRA or not, they are probably the best place to focus energies to consolidate the pro 2nd amendment voice. I'm a member for that reason. they have a strong voice in washington and that is exactly what we need. Don't be afraid to voice yor likes and dislikes to the NRA. Sure they ask a lot, but what you give is your choice. believe me though, washington is looking hard at their membership numbers.
Groups like moveon focus on a comprehensive liberal agenda, not just anti gun rights. they cover it all, abortion, religion, gay rights, labor and unions, womens rights, taxing the rich, putting pressure on banks and corproations. pretty much any thing that seems anti conservative. So they reach and appeal to a huge audiance. They hit everyone with any liberal values on some level and that becomes a voice they have, a name on one of their petitions . they send out a pettition and they get millions of signatures fast. Right now, this is what we need the NRA to do. Remind them to reach out to other conservative groups, to other pro gun organizations and consolidate efforts. Be a part of their efforts and make sure your voice is heard. We need to be the squeakiest wheel in the bunch. We need to be heard. ask the NRA to keep you informed on who the congressmen are who are pro gun and who are anti. and use your power of vote. Because the anti gun group has shown us clearly what they will do. They will take away our rights if we allow them to continue in office. if a congressman hears from enough people that they will lose votes for their participation in anti gun legislation, they will think twice about it. their goal is to get reelected.
We all knew going into the 2012 elections that if the democrats retained power, a gun right struggle was going to be on the horizon. Like romney or not, he was pro gun. Obama did a great job as painting romney as a 1%er who was going to pass legislation that aided his rich buddies and outsource jobs. facts are, Romney and bain created far more jobs then they ever destroyed. They turned companies who were on the verge of going under to leaders in their industries. Staples, Dominos pizza and many others. sure there were companies they sold off and people lost their jobs. but those companies were done anyway. But the point is we let a failed administrator lie his way into office for a second term because conservative couldn't galvanoze behind their candidate like the democrats did. and right now, we need to galvanize behind the NRA.
It seems to me that going the Executive Order route leaves our Executive with several unpalatable choices. He can do something extremely limited, which therefore has no practical effect, giving at best the appearance of doing something, minimizing the number of people annoyed into voting for the opposition in the next election, OR he can attempt to do something more sweeping, creating a stronger backlash, but still having virtually no impact on the guns currently in circulation, OR he can pass, ticking off his own base of anti-gun ideologues.
No matter what he does, it gets followed by another high profile shooting, which puts him back in the soup for not having done enough. Meanwhile, people keep joining the NRA.
If I were the President, I'd prefer this whole issue just went away, so I could focus on something that I could actually do something useful about. I'd much prefer the whole EO subject had not been brought up so I could just blame Congress for not doing anything.
My apologies if that sounds too political.
Let's stay away from political commentary please.
Well, not to say this was a tempest in a teakettle but the EOs turned out to be pretty much nothing. The president has seen which way the wind is blowing, I believe, and just going thru the motions to appeal to the more liberal parts of his base. The actual orders basically don't amount to anything. The Senate might gin up enough support for a watered down AWB/mag cap limit but if so it will die in the house. Soon we can all go back to arguing about the fiscal cliff or what the Kardashians are up to. Obviously we always have to be on guard but it looks like the emotion is dying down, and the two week national attention span has flitted elsewhere.
I would hardly call them nothing. While some are quite ridiculous - stating that the president will order one of the departments under his control to do something that all he had to do was pick up the phone and do ---- others are QUITE troubling. The CDC by law cannot do the studies he has ordered. Also - the reporting that he has ordered the medical community to perform - while in theory sounds good - but leaves questions regarding current laws, and IMO opens the professionals up to a lot of legal exposure if they do not report and legal exposure if they report and it turns out to be nothing.
Another big concern is the "Universal Background Checks" for all firearm transactions, personal sale, trade or gifts.
I am not sure that each check will include the firearm data and, hence, gun registration for all. Also, a fee is charged for these checks; look to exhorbitant fees to discourage legal activity.
There a many other concerns as well.
I have been busy this morning.
Apparently the e-mail and phone service in our national capitol is overloaded this morning.
As it should be.
We need to quit whinning at each other and get some communication going to our represenatives. Even if they are not gun supporters they need to know where their voting district stnads on these issues.
The GCA of 1994 (Brady Bill/assualt weapons ban) was the primary legislation that resulted in the overthrow of both House and Senate. They need to be reminded.
(see how I did not use a single political term in there. Is sorry SOBs allowable?)