Why "They" want to move to Wilderness, My answer.

WW, you don't fit the profile of people I was referring to. And neither do 1strimester or Sourdough, for that matter. I was talking about newbies who are contemplating dropping out completely, because, (their words, not mine) they hate society, find the system oppressive but would think nothing of squatting on someone else's land.

I can certainly relate to your lifestyle choice and often fantasize about doing it myself. And if I could afford to get away for a few years without serious consequences, I definitely would.

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Originally Posted by BENESSE

I was talking about newbies who are contemplating dropping out completely, because, (their words, not mine) they hate society, find the system oppressive but would think nothing of squatting on someone else's land.

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Thanks for the clarification :)
I very much doubt any of those people actually end up doing that or if so, for longer than a few months. It's not something they really, honestly want to do, IMO, it's something to dream and yap about - like the "surviving for a year with a knife and loincloth" crowd. It's just too hard to do if only a negative reason drives you. At least I don't know and haven't heard of a single bush person (= somebody who makes their longterm, fulltime home in a wilderness area without road access) up here who chose the lifestyle because they're fed up with society. (One exception being Sheslay Mike back in the 70s and 80s, but he was suffering from paranoid schizophrenia.)

Hummm, I guess I just missed this thread completely?

Anyway, I/we are left over Homesteaders for the 70's and 80's......The old Going Back To The Land-ers......which I think has kinda be replaced with the "Extreme back to the land-ers?.........
Any way our motivation was self sufficiency, being off grid, growing, foraging, hunting, putting food by, with drying canning, drying, make your own power, and living in a more harmonious fashion.

As it turns out, the folks that believe that people run "from" something vs the" to" something, are on to a solid principle.......You can't run from yourself.

For us it turns out that a "homestead can be anywhere you are"...the location doesn't matter.

How does this apply to those that want to "go to the bush"?........I'm thinking it's pretty much the same.....and a hard row to hoe for any length of time.....and the older you get, becomes even more difficult.

Seen a lot of people "getting back to the land" as neighbors at the place, come and go, "burn out times" were directly related to how much money they had, or how they got along, (couples that is), problems they had in the big city seem to intensify, as they brought them with them.

I'm also thinking the as the interweb has made more information available, the minds of a lot more people find more things to fear, making the getting out of here GOOD even more attractive.

Everyone should give it a shot.....I know some people that just said, "Screw this, I'm outta here", and did the whole move off the grid, thing, and are back now.....Grand kids, health issues, and split ups....happen.

Personally, we have kinda chosen to have it both ways for the time being.........

I don't know anyone in their late teens/early 20s that doesn't look for some sense of adventure at that age. Everyone has their own definition. Some join the military, some take on risky jobs (fire jumper, fishing, etc.) and a small percentage want to head to the wilderness. There's probably some sense of romanticism in their minds as well after reading accounts about Jim Bowie or Jeremiah Johnson or the like.

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Originally Posted by Rick

I don't know anyone in their late teens/early 20s that doesn't look for some sense of adventure at that age. Everyone has their own definition. Some join the military, some take on risky jobs (fire jumper, fishing, etc.) and a small percentage want to head to the wilderness. There's probably some sense of romanticism in their minds as well after reading accounts about Jim Bowie or Jeremiah Johnson or the like.

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I agree...been there in spirit myself.
But there's a whole nother contingency...loner, kept to himself, stayed mostly in his room playing video games, poor student, didn't participate in sports or any other group activity, didn't have a close relationship with parents or siblings, no friends, didn't date, etc, etc.
It doesn't take a Dr. Phil to figure out that a young person like that feels isolated from society, and is probably not the type to enlist, join the Peace Core or become a volunteer fire fighter but is more likely to feel the need to escape the life in which he feels marginalized and alone.
Are there exceptions? Probably...as in anything.

I can agree with that. You make a good point.

I know when I moved up into the middle of nowhere from down in the Detroit Metro Area, people asked what I was going to do up here, like it was some sort of exile into Siberia or something. I told them, with a smile, "Whatever I want, for a change." I love being up in the middle of a huge wilderness area, where you can hunt, fish, snowmobile, ATV, hike, or just watch nature literally right outside your back door. I love being able to go out after work and drive a couple of hours into areas where I can literally walk for hours on trails and never see another human being or sign of civilization. I can CHOOSE the level of 'on the grid' I wish to be and if need be, cutting myself off from it wouldn't hurt too much. I don't have neighbors whining about the forge I have in my backyard or the hammering in the middle of the day. I don't have some idiot from a homeowners association threatening me with legal action if my grass is too high or if they don't like my choice in gardens. I don't have the city telling me how many barn cats I can have or how many vehicles I can park in my own driveway. My well will give me water when every tap in the city runs dry unless citizens fork over a ton of hard earned cash to keep their pipes full. My septic system is well maintained and will continue to take whatever my toilets flush down for a long long time, and no city government will ever bill me for the privilege of getting rid of my sewage. I love brewing my own beer, making my own wine and mead, smoking my own meat, hanging and treating my own hides to make leathers and furs, creating my own iron and steel tools and goods, firing my own pottery, blowing my own glass, weaving and sewing my own clothing, blankets and fabric items, reloading my own ammo, making my own candles, soaps and papers, and working on my own vehicles, canning my own produce, and cooking my own meals on either my electric range, my woodfired cookstove, or my charcoal grills. I have acres of land with gardens, edible landscaping, orchards, vineyards, and hutches for chickens and rabbits. I fill my freezers with game, fowl and fish that I take myself, and my cost of living is pretty cheap while the QUALITY of my life is immeasurably better. Living out of a backpack is great, short term. It tests you and gives you a sense of your own mortality, for better or worse. But I don't need that level of disconnection from 'society' to feel free. Just some forest around my house, and no one giving me grief that shouldn't be in my business in the first place.

That is a fine place to be as long as all your systems meet state and local code requirements.

It does not matter where you are inside the U.S. there is always an agency that can tell you what to do with what you own.

No matter where you are in the WORLD, someone will always have the authority to tell you what you can and can't do. Learn to live with the fact that you aren't in the 1500's, and there are no new worlds to conquer. Every square foot of the planet is owned by someone, regulated by someone, or under someone's watchful eye. There is nowhere you could run to that would allow you complete autonomy and self-determination. Anyone who tells you different is trying to sell you something. You must make your choices accordingly. Taking out a backpack into the 'wilderness' (owned by someone, whether it is private or public lands) and 'living off the land' (poaching, unless you have paid some government to hunt a CERTAIN number of a CERTAIN species at a CERTAIN time with CERTAIN methods) is hardly 'Freedom' from responsibility and authority. Rather, it moves the burden squarely upon the shoulders of the person undertaking the hike, rather than making it nebulous and fuzzy as to where the buck actually stops. If you think that by putting on the yoke of a BOB backpack and fading into the woods, you are somehow going to shuck the yoke of civilization, of responsibility, and of authority, you are sadly mistaken. From the resources you use in the backcountry to the eventual SAR team that goes out to recover you, dead or alive, from wherever you end up getting hurt or sick or lost, you will have been under some government scrutiny and authority the entire time you are out there. Don't think so? Just explain the string of fish or the gutted deer you just bagged to the Game Warden that comes along and asks you what you think you are doing taking animals without a license or out of season. The courts will explain exactly how far into the system you really are.

Maybe they’re just looking for a world where even a chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.

And what did you mean by that?

It’s what I was told by my son when he was going through a period in his life with a bloated sense of autonomy. He wanted to move to a island by himself. I told him the only place he had left was an island. He got over it. He's got five fishing boats now and owns an island.

Sorry, deleted post.

Don't think I want to start that tright now!

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Originally Posted by ClayPick

without its motives being questioned.

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Originally Posted by Rick

And what did you mean by that?

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Humor is at the plate. Oh, swing and a miss.

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Originally Posted by Rick

I don't know anyone in their late teens/early 20s that doesn't look for some sense of adventure at that age. Everyone has their own definition. Some join the military, some take on risky jobs (fire jumper, fishing, etc.) and a small percentage want to head to the wilderness. There's probably some sense of romanticism in their minds as well after reading accounts about Jim Bowie or Jeremiah Johnson or the like.

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And don't we WANT our young people to have those high ideals? We WANT them to go seek adventure. We WANT them to seek out the adventure that is the wilderness and the "feeling" of autonomy one can achieve there. I see our job as a community, which is what this message board is, is not to talk them out of it or tell them it can't be done, or that they are idiots and we've heard all this before, but to point out things that they need to think about. As experienced as our collective is, we have a lot of information. Our job is to give them some of it in order to keep them as safe as we can help them be. Then let them go and learn those things that only experience can teach. Overcoming hardships, whether internal or external makes better human beings. Achievement and self satisfaction are good things. These are people who are going to be making my governmental and health care choices when I am too old to make them myself. I want them to KNOW what it is like to go out to the wilderness and survive on the merits of one's own behavior.

Good post, wise councel.......MF used to say, "Experiance is the best teacher.........", But did qualify it with a "So that's what you have decided....?".....at times.
And it seemed that ment, "maybe re-think?.....Why did he say that?"

It's tough to set them off with out those traing wheels, sometimes, though.

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Originally Posted by 1stimestar

And don't we WANT our young people to have those high ideals? We WANT them to go seek adventure. We WANT them to seek out the adventure that is the wilderness and the "feeling" of autonomy one can achieve there. I see our job as a community, which is what this message board is, is not to talk them out of it or tell them it can't be done, or that they are idiots and we've heard all this before, but to point out things that they need to think about. As experienced as our collective is, we have a lot of information. Our job is to give them some of it in order to keep them as safe as we can help them be. Then let them go and learn those things that only experience can teach. Overcoming hardships, whether internal or external makes better human beings. Achievement and self satisfaction are good things. These are people who are going to be making my governmental and health care choices when I am too old to make them myself. I want them to KNOW what it is like to go out to the wilderness and survive on the merits of one's own behavior.

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IMHO, that's the job of parents.
I see our job as cautiously and prudently advising because we don't have all the facts.

I don't disagree with you, 1st. There's a difference, however, when someone comes on here and says their goal is to live off grid in the bush and they are researching their options vs. the one that comes on here and wants to do it with only a knife. Not knowing something can't be done has created some very wealthy entrepreneurs because they just went ahead and did it. It's also gotten more than a few killed. We, as a group, also need to be selective on who we assist and who we try to dissuade based on that person's skill, knowledge and goal.

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Originally Posted by Rick

I don't disagree with you, 1st. There's a difference, however, when someone comes on here and says their goal is to live off grid in the bush and they are researching their options vs. the one that comes on here and wants to do it with only a knife. Not knowing something can't be done has created some very wealthy entrepreneurs because they just went ahead and did it. It's also gotten more than a few killed. We, as a group, also need to be selective on who we assist and who we try to dissuade based on that person's skill, knowledge and goal.

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Heh. Well there IS a difference between young and dumb, and just plain idiotic. :whistling:

This song goes thru my head many times when I read about wanting to "Take off....." I don't know why/

You have to understand, that George Thorogood is doin' alright.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3l2Vo1z260