Some people may have tried them, and there may be some benefit to them, but they seem kind of gimmicky to me. I'd go with a good multi-vitamin and real food with a long shelf life.
Printable View
Some people may have tried them, and there may be some benefit to them, but they seem kind of gimmicky to me. I'd go with a good multi-vitamin and real food with a long shelf life.
I've got some in my car and in my packs, along with a bunch of other food and some water pouches. Yep, they are gimmicky. But they taste okay and are better than nothing. And they keep forever.
Was just thinking the same thing as I read this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by crashdive123
Seems like the first thing people do when the power goes out in an apartment complex is grab a flashlight and head out into the hallway to see what is going on. I cant imagine it would be any different in any other kind of emergency such as an earthquake, flood, etc...
There are always 2 exits/entry points to each floor, and you may want to have someone cover the other one if need be. Also, if you do have limited space and you make friends with a likeminded neighbor, you can cut down on redundent items as a team.
Oh, almost forgot, if you might need to do a river crossing, check out these packs and some smaller ones for potential BOBs. They are heavy, but how far does your plan require?
LOVE the packs!
Wish I didn't have some already but will definitely consider smaller ones
for indispensable stuff.
As far as neighbors are concerned...well, it's a whole different mindset over here.
And that's what makes my situation more difficult.
People just don't get into that kind of stuff.
Unless there's something imminently brewing, broaching the subject alone
would label me "out there".
So I have to thread lightly and hope for the best.
Do you have any friends(and I mean friends not just aquaintances) that you can broach the subject with In order to form a group? It might come down to all of you rallying to someone in the groups apartment or house. Then of course you have to think about security. After all you don't want people just wandering through your place taking what they will. If you want a good fiction read on this, I just finished the book Patriots by James Wesley Rawles ISBN 978-1-56975-599-0. Just some things to think about
Unfortunately, all my really good friends are several states away,
and ready to jump in. Getting there from NYC would be a challenge.
Actually it's JWR's book "PATRIOTS" that got me going. (his site is terrific as well)
It did make my head spin, I felt humbled and totally out of my league
as far as survival skills go.
I just didn't know how little I knew and that was truly disturbing.
The learning curve is steep, so here I am.
That is pretty much how I was set up in Maine before I moved out to California. I had a place out in the boonies and we evn had a fall back retreat just incase we really had to lose our selves.
I really liked the book with a few exceptions. A bit too much religion for my taste and second, I am not a proponent of ammo as a bater item as that could come back and bite you in the arse. I was also surprised that they didn't have more of their shelter below ground for both the warming and cooling properties of the earth during different times of the year.
Ditto on both points.
At first I thought that I might as well give up because there's NO way
I could possibly get there (knowledge, skills, etc.) from here.
Then I wondered if I really wanted to.
And finally I came to the conclusion that although surviving is the ultimate goal
(for me personally) it can't come at the expense of actual "living" day to day.
A balanced life is the key and one of the hardest things to achieve.
Practically and philosophically. If you care enough.
It's very seductive to go one way or the other, all the way.
I can imagine the comfort it may offer.
But I can also imagine the missed opportunities.
It really comes down to the old saying..."when you have lemons, make lemonade or lemon cookies or lemon merangue pie" . Do the best you can with what you have. Keep your mind flexible and adaptable. If bugging in is not a good option research bugging out.
Remy & Benesse, a good book to read for urban dwellers is The Unthinkable: Who survives when disaster strikes by Ripley. Similar to Deep Survival in its discussion of the psychology of survival, but really brings up a lot of situational awareness and understanding of the challenges to urban dwellers. It discusses at lengths on who lived and who died in the WTC on 9/11 and why some people did exactly the wrong thing. If you're going to place yourself in an environment with many human-caused risks with maximum density, it pays to be aware of how humans will react in a crisis.
If bugging out becomes the only option then don't limit yourself to roadways. You said in the first post you don't have a car but it's tempting to use the roads because they make great pathways, but so do to railroads. And I'm sure far less people have considered using them. So they become less congested. At least take some time and find out where the rail lines run to and from so you have another option available to you.
Here is a link with several maps in NY state. Scroll down for lots of maps and additional links.
And don't forget about Google Earth to map out a route. It's an excellent tool!
http://gold.mylargescale.com/Scottychaos/maps/
Thanks Endurance, I'm ordering the books right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by endurance
I'm also getting Ragnar's Urban Survival (Remy's recomm.)
One of the best all around wonderful survival reads that I can recommend is
"The Best Adventure and Survival Stories 2003" edited by Nate Hardcastle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Thanks Rick, got the map site bookmarked.
I love Google Earth but haven't thought about using it to map out routes.
Another good idea!
BENESSE, I hope this thread has a long life. It is putting a face on a real problem with no solution. Well, there is a solution but, no one likes it.
What's the solution Hope?Quote:
Originally Posted by hope
Hope thinks there are a couple to a few too many people on the planet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crashdive123
Weeelllllll......we are the only herd that the weak don't get culled. LOL:innocent:
I definitely agree with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by crashdive123
No matter how reasonably one approaches this topic
it's always polarizing.
Can't f with procreation.
I have the predecessor, Live Off the Land in the City or Country, which I did enjoy. Getting a good all-arounder book like When Technology Fails by Stein is valuable for a reference, as they cover all sorts of disasters and the solutions to the problems that come with them. My first book all-arounder was Life After Doomsday by Clayton. They all cover the basics of what to store, how to store it, what are the possible scenarios, and how can you come back from it. I like the gardening and alternative energy aspects of Stein's book. It seems more grounded relative to no matter what goes on, smart prepping can save you money on food, help you produce your own food and energy, and looks at a variety of alternatives for heating, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by BENESSE
The best thing you could do to put it all together is find a local mentor who's been prepping for a while. Using a site like meet up can help find folks with common interests, whether it's urban gardening, shooting, or emergency preparedness. Just search for meetings in your area or post your own meeting. Once you start putting the feelers out there, it's amazing how fast you can start to network.
Speaking of survival books, my all time, favorite has to be "Shackelton's Incredible Voyage" by Alfred Lansing.Quote:
Originally Posted by endurance
The story of Shackleton and his crew is pure, basic, awe-inspiring survival--no bells and whistles, no cool gear, nothing but the best of the human spirit beating the odds by sheer will and mental wherewithal.
At times I think I'd rather be stuck in Antarctica than NYC in a weekend gridlock, or a dignitary visiting UN any day of the week.
A&E put out a boxed videotape (4 tapes) series on the voyage. It's by Kenneth Branagh. AAE-18421.Quote:
Originally Posted by BENESSE
I saw it and it's AWESOME.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken
Not too much creative license, just very real and compelling,
sticking close to the actual narrative.
See it if you can, you WILL be inspired.
Another really terrific film is "Snow Walker" (2003).
No one famous in it and no reason you should have heard of it but it's extremely
meaningful to what we're all talking about.
It gets down to the very basic, innate survival skills that Remy brought up
in a separate post--and Remy, if you haven't seen it, I think you'll particularly
appreciate it if I read you correctly.
Some of you who grew up on a farm or hunting and fishing or have been in the armed forces or
law enforcement or spend time hiking and camping in the middle of nowhere might take some of these things for granted.
But the rest of us who are at least aware of what it takes are awed and humbled.
Benesse, Have you done any camping or hiking? You've got the Delaware water Gap and the Pine Barrens to your south and the Catskills to your NW. I did a lot of camping in the Catskills during the summer of love. I digress, get out there and practice your skills. The key here is to take all the creature comforts with you but try not using them unless you have to. This way you won't be miserable.
You could certainly look up Wild Man Steve Brill's classes in Central Park. That would be an education I'd love to have.
http://www.wildmanstevebrill.com/
Click on the 2009 calendar in the left hand menu.
I'm actually scheduled to take Steve's class in early Aug. and will continueQuote:
Originally Posted by Rick
(in different areas) 'til I can recite it in my sleep.
Being a vegetarian, (I know, I know...) it's bound to make a serious difference.
I've studied the medicinal aspects of plants and have applied some of that knowledge to great success.
But eating off the fat of the land in Central Park would be quite a coup.
Stay tuned.
Just remember to stay away from plants tht are right next to the roadways, they tend to absorb the exhaust and anything else comming out of the tailpipe.
This is a direct quote from http://www.survivalblog.com/index.html
Wednesday July 29 2009
Notes from JWR:
I was recently contacted by a producer for The History Channel who is making a documentary about survivalism. It is an unusual project that will include a subtext docudrama about a family that is fleeing Los Angeles in the midst of a megapandemic. He will be interviewing survivalists in Los Angeles and New York in mid-August. If you live in or near those cities and are willing to do an on-camera interview, please contact Nick Leader, via e-mail.
(The site provides a way to connect to Nick Leader.)
Remy, (just in case you're interested) your involvement would be an asset.
Thanks for asking, I'm pretty much done with the basics.Quote:
Originally Posted by remy
Your list and photos as well as many others who were kind enough to respond
was an enormous help. I am sure it will be work in progress until (god-forbid)
I actually have to rely on it.
At this point I am reading all the recommended literature plus some that I stumbled across and find useful to my particular predicament.
As a late-comer to all this I now find myself obsessing over everything, especially my lack of practical skills.
I also think a lot about the balance of "preparing" vs. "living". Where do I draw the line?
There are sacrifices to be sure, unless your time and budget are limitless.
Or you live that kind of life anyway.
Like people who live at their retreats year round, who hunt and fish and backpack or have been in the armed services and law enforcement, etc.
I know I am in a better place than I was a month ago but I am also realistic about what it takes.
It's gonna be a long haul!
Quite so on all points Remy.
Human mind has always been the key.
It can get you through most difficult times and it can also f you up
if you are not careful and aware of what it can do.
To that end it is a tool, one that requires life-long practice to master it.
Benesse - I agree with Remy. No need to obsess on any of it. Draw the line between "living" and "survival" where you feel the most comfortable. It gives a good starting point.
Now that you have the "basics" put together you need to exercise your plan to see if it works for you. This can be something very simplified all the way up to a full bug out exercise if that's what you want to do.
You can start by making some assumption. Your apartment building will be without electricity for two days, for example. So pick a week-end and go both days with no electricity. Use only what you have in house to get through. Keep notes about what has been forgotten, needs to be added, would be nice to have and so on. That will give you some idea of whether your supplies fit your needs.
Plans are wonderful things but only theoretical until you test them. The cycle goes something line.
Plan -> Test -> Post Mortem -> Adjust Plan.
Once you've exercised the plan a couple of times then you'll begin to see what you need for you and what you have that you can do without.
Good to see you coming along as well as you are. As Crash says, if it works for you it works for me and it looks like it is working rather well for you!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
A weekend bug-in drill w/o electricity is a terrific idea!
Especially now when it's hot & humid.
Last weekend I walked 3 miles with my 20lb backpack on just as a start.
Glad I did since there were some gear snags I definitely wouldn't want to face "when the film is rolling".
Next trek will be longer with new hiking boots on.
The fun has just begun.
Just don't get sick over the humidity and make sure you break those hiking boots in BEFORE you do the trek. Wear them around the house if you have to. Painful feet are no fun. And be sure you have some blister meds like mole skin and some duct tape. Duct tape is great if you start having a hot spot. Apply a piece directly to the foot and hike on!
I was looking around and found this
http://www.amazon.com/Urban-Survival...0079987&sr=8-4
Thought it might help those in an urban situation. Think it could be a very useful addition to anyone considering bugging in, including me.
Thanks, I'll definitely check it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by wychwood
I am currently reading Ragnar's Urban Survival (Remy's recommendation)
which gives some very practical advice.
All in all, I do find that for every answered question I have five more that aren't.
Being in a big city like say, Denver is one thing. Being in NYC with a bull's eye on it is quite another. It's tough enough when it rains or some big cheese is visiting the UN or when there's a Puerto Rican Day parade
(or you-name-it-day parade) passing by your front door.
One can only imagine other scenarios and prey they don't happen while you are taking the subway to work. The only thing worse would be being a tourist WTSHTF.
Hey Benesse, How close are you to the Brooklynn Bridge?
Not very.Quote:
Originally Posted by SARKY
Much closer to Qeensboro or Triborough.
The folks in Oklahoma City and Portland probably felt that way, too, Benesse. More apt to happen in New York than here. I'm not certain any place is safe today. Certainly not from accidents much less idiots bent on causing destruction.
i experienced a week of no power in michigan after an ice storm. the situation was real and we closed up ourselves into the smallest room we hung blankets from the windows to insulate out the cold. we burned oil candles (the ones i teach how to use) and we cooked on a oil stove too. we melted ice for water.