Snakeman - I'm not sure about Eastern Red Cedar, but maybe somebody else might know - the resin content of the wood might be too high to give you success.
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Snakeman - I'm not sure about Eastern Red Cedar, but maybe somebody else might know - the resin content of the wood might be too high to give you success.
It didn't seem resonous and was really light and dry. It starts to smoke in about 2-3 seconds for me.
Crash,
Great tutorial on the fire saw. I have used this in Brazil many times to make fire. My technique is exactly the same.
Rick makes a good point in that you have to learn this skill to the point that you can do it in the bush from materials on hand. That can be difficult with bamboo because you have to use bamboo that is dead and dry. It also has to have thick enough wood so it doesn't fall apart. Bamboo is a very good friction fire material when you have the right stuff.
I think it is good to bear in mind that most people who use primitive skills for real have several advantages. They collect materials over the course of the entire growing season and they have a wealth of local knowledge to add to their lifelong skill set. People who depended upon friction fire often did make their friction fire set in camp and carry it with them until parts wore out. It was common that such fire sets were carried in waterproof containers, especially in South America and other jungle environments.
In places where matches and lighters have become available friction fire skills die very quickly. In my area of Brazil friction fire isn't even a dim memory because it was replaced with the flint and steel starting about five hundred years ago. You can still find old timers lighting their corn husk cigars this way. Mac
Endurance,
Have you tried Aspen roots? I have heard that they are very good material for friction fire. If you find an Aspen that tipped over or has had its roots washed out in a creekbed you might give them a try.
It is very hard to find soft woods in Central Brazil most of them are rock hard or filled with resin. I seriously doubt I could collect the materials and make friction fire in any reasonable amount of time in my home state apart from using bamboo. That's why I have a mag-block laced to my machete sheaths. Mac
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/631...0817085282.jpg
Mag block on machete, BSA Hotspark on Mora.
Rick- I have successfully built a friction fire from materials I found while camping...but it was here in the desert where everything is dry almost all the time. I can show you pictures, but would it be of any value considering our vastly differing locations?
Thanks Crash
Have you found the thickness to be significant in the bamboo method? All the bamboo around here ,Panama City area ,is thin 1/16 +-
If by thickness you mean the wall thickness, then IMO it is important to use materials with a thick enough wall to hold up under the pressure of the sawing motion. The thinner walled pieces will break under the pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mischief
If you are talking about the over all thickness of the bamboo (diameter) then no, I haven't noticed a big difference. I will point out however that the bamboo that I have access to is much smaller than the stuff that was available to me in places like the jungles of Guam. Some of that stuff was huge! We'd make canteens and rice steamers out of them.
Yes wall thickness. Looking at your pic's again looks like around 3/16"
Will start the thick bamboo search,or do you have any for sale?
Thanks again
Nah, I don't sell it. It's just stuff I find. Stop by your local IFAS Office and ask where you can find some. Here's a link to one that may be near you. http://escambia.ifas.ufl.edu/
Dolfan - I can certainly see the ability to do that in a desert environment. I would never question someone's ability to accomplish that there.
I think Mac is spot on about indigenous folks building their fire sets in camp. That's exactly what my thoughts have always been. I sure can't see them waiting until they needed it to build it. That would be like waiting until you saw a deer to build a bow and arrow. Everything was done in camp ahead of time (IMHO).
I'm going to work on the electric drill thingy for a bit and see what I can do with that. I like that idea quite a lot.
Nicely said.
Well put, Remy. I think you captured it well.
I haven't tried aspen roots yet. I'll keep an eye out for some while I'm out for my ride today and bring some home to work on. I guess it's one of the few areas of bushcraft that I probably haven't put much effort into since I've never had the need. I absolutely, positively always have my magnesium with me, sometimes two or three (i.e. in my pocket, in my car kit, and in my day hike bag). I have vasoline'd cotton balls in every kit and most of my jacket pockets and while they're not essential, they sure as heck make it a lot easier if dealing with damp material. This summer has been the wettest I've seen in years and I can certainly say that I've fallen back on the cotton balls more this year than ever before. If I had to, I could live without, but when they're there, it's hard not to take advantage of them. I guess the same might be true for my bow drill experiences. If left no other choice, I just might keep at it longer if I didn't have a choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pict
On a completely different tangent; does anyone else just want to reach through the TV screen and slap the living crap out of the Survivor contestants when they bash the hell out of the striker side without ever scraping a single flake of magnesium? They may as well be trashing my personal gear. :smash:
I've heard, I'm not certain if it's true or not, that a .22 LR will actually fit inside a fiber optic cable and, if fired correctly, will actually hit a contestant in front of the camera.
Hmmm, might have to give that a try sometime.
Yuccas are plentiful here. If you find one you've got your spindle. thats what I use most all the time. Without a Bow, I use my leather necklace/thong as thumbstraps for a hand drill and I prefer to use mullein stalks for that, but yucca will work. Mullein isn't too hard to find around old fields.
For my hearthboard I use Black Willow as it has an aggressive grain but still powders well. Black willows grow everywhere down here and you can find a dead limb in a tree within 100ft of wherever you are in most cases.
When gathering it all afoot, these are my materials of choice and I've demonstrated it twice at camping trips this summer. I usually gather these materials when gathering the wood to burn and the tinder.
You have an awesome quote on your signature and I like the truths you speak! Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by your_comforting_company
Thanks cowboy.
I could talk for hours about the quote alone.
As I said before, I dont want to put up a lot of heresay, though some of my experiences are vicarious ( I was with someone who did something I witnessed, so I know it can be done). Everything I post will either be something I've done, or witnessed firsthand. I honestly didnt believe fire could be made with sticks either, till I saw a guy do it at a demonstration (Mr Russel Cutts). If his wife wasn't a braintanner I might not have ever seen it done. The most interesting thing was the items in his fire kit were things that were growing in the woods around the park where the demo was and he showed me exactly where they were and what they look like growing.
One thing I would like to add here is that it is pretty much impossible to make fire by banging 2 rocks together. Many folks have told me "I have made fire with 2 flint rocks before" yet every one of them fails when I hand them 2 rocks, but I can take my sticks and have flames in my hand in 3 minutes.
Conditions need to be favorable, i.e. gentle breeze, not raining, dry materials, but not necessarily "ideal".
As with braintanning, you have to let your kit teach you how to make fire. It's all about getting a feel and this takes me over to a post by Wareagle where I talked about the neurons in your brain being 'rewired' as you learn. Wetscrape braintan is tough to explain to someone, but they soon realize it is a self regulating process. So it is true with firemaking. Most times I dont even think about making fire, I just do the work and let the lords creation do the rest because, well... thats the way he designed the world. You dont have to fully understand HOW it works, just that it does if you put in the effort.
I'm rambling again lol.
thanks again for the compliments
If anyone has any questions, feel free to contact me. I love helping others get rewired!
ycc
endurance, have you tried juniper or cedar? I saw Cody Lundin use if for his fire drill once. Haven't tried it myself, but there is a lot of cedar here in Utah, so it might be plentiful in Colorado. There is even a lot at 10,000 ft.
Collect clothes dryer lint for tinder.
I have tried this , but not with "flint", but 2 pieces of iron pyrite, fools gold.Quote:
Originally Posted by your_comforting_company
It will create a spark, but I gotta say, that it's pretty hard to do.
Have not been successful in actually getting much past the spark.
Also I have tried a lot of times to used the bow drill, and will continue to research local materials, to find something that will work, as I have seen it done at demonstrations also.
The demonstrator made it look easy, so I guess I'm just retarded, or lack the "secret", or maybe just lack patience.
Did try chucking up my "drill", in the Milwaukee, thinking that that would give me more speed, Nada.
So, I keep plenty of "Bic's" in every jacket, coat, bag, vehicle along with the fire steel, matches, fire starters, redundancy, redundancy, redundancy.
Maybe you want to try Iron pyrite and flint, or flint and steel. Not two rocks of the same type, although they can produce a spark it has always been very weak in my experience. Try Char cloth with the flint and steel method.
I had that down for years, actually won a couple of fire starting contests at Rendezvous, that with the flint rock and steel, not the magnesium and rod type.Quote:
Originally Posted by pocomoonskyeyes
I still will pursue the bow drill way, as it kinda making me mad that I haven't master that yet.
Here's a thread I posted on some time back. Rock on rock sparks is quite possible.
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ight=fire+rock
Here's a question for all of you. Many of us live near natural outcroppings of coal or even oil or tar. Have any of you used these natural materials for fire starters? I'm not talking about carrying the stuff to the field with you but finding them in the field and using them? Once you have a fire started with fire bow, flint and steel or rock on rock you could have a very hot fire in just a few minutes.
Well Coal is out. You have to get a fire going to get the coal going...
I carry a fire board and spindle in my fire kit, bow is easy to make but have had limited luck with the spindle and fireboard found on the spot I have done it on occasion but find that with the one in my kit it is almost easy, the one I carry came from an old ceder fence post it worked so well I kept it and it became a permanent part of my kit. Both the spindle and fire board are made of ceder and I carry a 3' piece of 550 for the cord. I also have a bamboo fire saw as part of my kit it works well also but I find it to be more work then the bow and drill. As far as finding everything in the wild yes I can do it but find it much more convenient to carry it along rather then search for just the right material
I guess this is the way I think also, if I gotta carry it, it will be a Bic, zippo, fire steel, matches etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
I have found a piece of flint, (rock) dug it up digging the fire pit and used my patch knife, had a fire steel handle, to start the camp fire.
What material/ wood, would you suggest using for the fire board? Drill?
Old , dry, green, type etc.
Dry, non-resinous wood, preferably one hard, one soft.
I was out looking for some dry mullein today.
depends on several things. what's the weather at the moment?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
1.) what's the weather been lately?
2.)where am i [...and what's going on, i've been imbibing...]
3.) what grows here?
it's a very broad question and i'm not afraid to admit that maybe half [maybe more] of circumstances, i couldn't get a friction fire started any time soon. and i have been working on it a lot.
now here, most of the time it's easy, especially during the dry months, but there's a reason millions of people have set up shop, so to speak, living in this valley.
i haven't read the whole thread, but if it hasn't been said yet, don't forget dock during/after sumer.
Rumex sp. flower stalks work great and once they dry, they stay dry enough to use even in wet weather, until it begins to decompose and gets soft [likey to fold over instead of breaking]. tinder on the other hand can be hard to come by in many situations.
nothing simple in firemaking, unless circumstances are ideal.
I agree. If I'm gonna carry my fire in, it's gonna be a zippo or bic. pack light and save room for other items.Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter63
Drill: should be dead and weathered. soft enough to dent with fingernail. Horseweed, Mullein, and yucca are great spindle materials. It should grind easily into a very fine powder and not be sappy as resins tend to gum up or polish the hot end of the spindle resulting in a horrendous squeak.
Hearth: should also be dead and weathered and non-resinous. It should be slightly harder than your spindle with a more aggressive grain for grinding the spindle, though still able to dent with your fingernail. Most willows will work though I choose black willow when available. I have used pieces of crate which I assume were oak, but it did not work very well. Cottonwood and Basswood are also good hearth materials. I have heard of using white cedar, but have not tried it. Make sure you dont forget to cut the V-groove into the hearth for the dust to collect UNDER the spindle.
Bow: should be very hard, very stiff wood that does NOT flex when in operation. I use Tulip Poplar for all my bows. Hickory I'm sure would work, as well as pecan.
Tindle: should be dead dry grassy materials that catch fire easily. I use Johnsongrass and bahaia, and have on occasion used spanish moss. Make your birdnest out of grasses, add a few shavings of your spindle and top it with dandelion or thistle fluff. Even johnsongrass or cattail fluffwill work. I add that in to catch my ember when transferring from platform to tindle. even more frustrating than being out of breath is dumping all your dust and ember THROUGH the tindle. bummer. :cursing:
The most important thing to remember when making fire is : dont think about making fire. all your efforts should be focused on operation of the kit, posture, and breathing. there is nothing more frustrating than getting a live ember and being too tired to blow it into flame. The first time I made fire with sticks took me the better part of a day. :sweatdrop:
It boils down to the transformation of human will into pure energy. Basically you use enough pressure and friction to split a molecule into simpler parts: volatile gasses that burn, inert materials like ash, and energy/light/heat. you cause a degradational chain reaction much like an atomic bomb in slow motion on a microscopic scale. :nuke: The key is to watch the smoke from your kit. At first it will be gray, then will turn yellowish, which indicates a live ember. Be sure you blow that tiny ember GENTLY into the dust pile to make it grow large enough to be transferred.
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...pictureid=1067
tulip poplar bow, yucca spindle, limestone socket, black willow hearth
A good book on the subject is "Fire Making Art" by Russel Cutts.
YCC, thank you, that does add some useful information to mix, (actually has been a lot from everyone).
I guess because it is one ski;; I haven't mastered, I get frustrated when ever I try it.
Thanks again.
P.S. I actually found a "socket rock" in a dry stream bed, while on one of my
"expeditions".
Has a perfect hole in it and if you put it in your hand it fits perfectly.
Here's a couple of the pic's of the bow drill "socket" I found.
I will be going to a "clean and sort" session at the local collage, for the local Archaeological Society, which I am a member.
I will ask the expert what he thinks.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...CT0772crop.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...CT0777crop.jpg
Also pictured is a stone adz (I think), that has tool mark for the groove to tie it on a handle, as well as the fact that it fits perfectly in my right hand.
Wouldn't be interesting to know the real history of those tools. Nice finds.
I would suspect that is an acorn grinding stone. Where villages were stationary, they were rather large stones and had several holes for grinding acorns. That one appears to be used by a more transient people and could be carried with them.
http://lightofmorn.com/html/bychance.htm
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...tone-750px.jpg
Just got back from the collage, top guy there in the archaeological group, agree that it has been worked, he called it "cultural rather than "natural", but in his opinion it was inconclusive.
Thanks for the site Rick, does look like the acorn stone, but the sides are straight, and show signs of a turning motion, (wear marks).
I also have a grinding stone in my collection, and the sides are more tapered.
You want to do a thread on "Finds"?
I just got done watchin Lil' Joe from Bonanza start a fire in the fireplace by using a bowdrill. He made it look easy and after a minute or so of drilling, and flirtin with a girl at the same time, the fire lit right up. He didn't even have to blow on it. PooF! Fire!
He did appear to be a lil sweaty. I guess they threw that in for realism. LOL!
That and the match head under the spindle helped.:innocent: