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Though there are many species that could be sitable,Sour Wood is a good choice,or Honey Sucle vine, and mabe crepe myrtle or other rhododendron like trees, Hickory, I would like to experiment with.Quote:
Originally Posted by hard county
And the trees have to be left undisturbed a period of years so that they can grow and mature into the finished product.
I think one of the major stumbling blocks we have on this thread is the time factor, we are too wrapped up by today's standards of compressed time perception. We don't want it now, we want yesterday.
Peoples that live in a wilderness or agrarian setting, would measure time in a scale that would include seasons, work tithes, generations, years even centuries to conclude project.
Look at the cathedrals in Europe they were developed over many years or generations as expenses/skilled labor, seasonal tasks would allow.
Perfcectly said,tsitenha. Thank you, an integeral notion to co-exist with nature and to plan for a way of life that Gives to your decendants long after you are no longer able to.Quote:
Originally Posted by tsitenha
Just wondering if you've tried a vine on top of a live 1" tree, with the head wrapped with a living vine. Between the tree growth and the vine shouldn't take but a season or two to do almost the same thing. Maybe just good for one good THUNK but who knows?
Exelent suggestion! Thats what I need opinions for, I am going to try that, that could be just the right thing. the actual process hasnt been used for so long nobody exactly remembers the "Perfect" way to make one. Thanks for that Old CootQuote:
Originally Posted by Ole WV Coot
sitll its a ROCK haha jk, it looks cool
I just recently went to the Florida Keys, down there grows a tree called the Strangler Fig.That tree is a perfect candidate for encapsulating foriegn objects.
This is a 1000 Plus year old Strangler Fig tree On Lignumvitae key,Quote:
Originally Posted by erunkiswldrnssurvival
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...&pictureid=227
Where do you get these numbers??? I've been to Lignumvitae Key, which is now called Lignumvitae Key State Botanical Park. Only 50 people are allowed on the Key at the same time, 25 on the trail and 25 in the clearing.Quote:
Originally Posted by erunkiswldrnssurvival
Yahoo and Google have nothing on the age of the tree's on Lignumvitae and nothing on the maximum age of the Florida strangler fig. I even went to Lignumvitae Key State Botanical Park web-site. Nothing!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Wolf
I tried to call the park but they are closed today. I'll try again tomorrow!
tsitenha, runkis and anyone else,
No body doubts that you can make an axe handle in this fashion. But this web site by its title is about wilderness survival. Going by the spirit of this section of the forum, yes it is a good post. An interesting piece of history. However we do not live in the stone age any more and it is highly unlikely that we ever will again.
If you want to suggest passing something down through the generations. Try this.
"I have a steel axe head outside that belonged to my Great grandfather who was a logger and then to his son my Grandfather who was also a logger. Now I own it. I have replace the handle probably a dozen times. Twice with handles I made myself. A few years from now I will give this axe to my grandson and I will teach him how to use it and care for it as I was taught, including how to make an axe handle. If my grandson honors this tradition, this axe will be passed on to his son or grandson".
Back in the stone age growing an axe handle may have been a good idea and a tradition passed down through the generations. Today steel rules! Teach your sons the old ways, to remember and honor them. But also teach them the new ways. Buy a high quality steel axe. Teach your sons how to care for it so that it can be passed down. And when a better way comes the cycle starts all over.
Its good to remember the passed so we don't end up repeating it. But by our nature we forge ahead into the future.
Looks like a Banyan Tree to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by erunkiswldrnssurvival
Never said to bypass the steel ax, how did you know my grandfather and father were loggers (in winter)? By the way 2 man cross cut saws in my grandfather's youth and chain saws in my fathers. any axes used for work would be nubbings now
As in many post FVR amongst others reminds us to look beyond and relinquish the "need" to rely on "steel" for an example. Knowing other ways may just come in handy, knapping and such.
I know that we are not your of tea with our posts.... ignore us if you must.
I do pass on knowledge of steel as well as stone and wood if it comes to that.
Here are pictures of the Florida Strangler Fig. They get their name from growing around other trees, and wind up strangling them.
I am telling you about wilderness survival, you think you know alot , but you dont post anything except insults, I think for this web site you could conductQuote:
Originally Posted by klkak
yourself a little better , and also post something educational for a change.
The practices i am trying to describe are the methods of survival of those who came before us , some of us survivalists are primmitive techies, for some reason you speak out against it , your just misinformed. my methods are genuine practice.
Exelent pics, thanks for posting those.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Wolf
Well I went to lignumvitae Key personaly and took the photo that i posted. the age of the tree isnt publicized but they do offer information on the 1919 building of a house. And thank you for trying to call, the people there are very helpful and courtious.Quote:
Originally Posted by klkak
So again, how do you come up with these dates you state??? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by erunkiswldrnssurvival
How did you come up with that tree being 911 years older than that house?? :confused:
As I posted earlier,
The State Park workers don't date anything before the 1919 house, from when the Matheson family of Miami owned the island. They're are a couple of other buildings on the island also. The records of the island ownership itself only dates to 1843.Quote:
I've been to Lignumvitae Key, which is now called Lignumvitae Key State Botanical Park. Only 50 people are allowed on the Key at the same time, 25 on the trail and 25 in the clearing.
Also, sorry but the picture you posted doesn't look like the Florida Strangler Fig. That why I posted the pictures of 3 different Florida Strangler Figs.
You are not talking about wilderness survival. You are talking about an antiquated practice. In your own words;Quote:
Originally Posted by erunkiswldrnssurvival
If you were in a true life or death "survival situation", growing an axe handle is not an option.Quote:
The practices i am trying to describe are the methods of survival of those who came before us.
There are folks on here that are into running around with stone tipped spears and stone Axe's. Or black powder guns and tomahawks. If thats you, then good for you. Some of that technology is very useful for survival. Growing an axe handle isn't one of them.
I have made post other than insults. Some of them are even educational. But unlike a good deal of other folks. I am reading the multitude of information that is already here. In that way I don't post something that has already been discussed. If and when I decide to make another educational contribution. It will be something new to the forum I hope, as well as throughly tested. Maybe even documented with video, photograph's or wittiness's.
Now to me being misinformed;
I lived the first 8 years of my life in miserable conditions on a stinking reservation. My Fathers brothers, taught me to make bows, arrows and knapping. When my Father died we moved off the Res. It was now up to me to provide for my Mother, sisters and brothers. We subsisted on what Mom grew in the garden and the meat that I provided. Mostly squirrels and jack rabbits at first. I killed my first deer at age 9 with a single shot .22lr. I started trapping that same year. I became very good at both hunting and trapping.
Misinformed, not hardly. I choose the new ways because they are for the most part better (thats why the old ways are not in common practice any more). I know what it is to be stranded in a hostile environment with almost nothing. I know what it is to be unsure if I would be alive or dead in the next 10 minutes let alone any hope at the time of being rescued. I have lived it and I have the memories and the nightmares as souvenirs. When I post something here it is tested, it is simple and it is productive. It has to be. If I put information on here and someone used it and lost their life because it wasn't relevant teaching. Or gave up their desire to learn about things wild because of the difficulty. I would never forgive myself.
Now wake up and realize that I'm not the only one who feels and has voiced that some of the stuff you put on here is, for lack of better words "way out there"! And quit being so tender skinned.
This is not a flame!Quote:
Originally Posted by erunkiswldrnssurvival
I also don't understand where you got the method you're describing. Every place I looked described the same way Mac's book did. They describe making a split into a growing tree limb, then forcing the flint head into it. The tree healing itself would fill the split tightly around the stone. Please point me to any place that describes your way of using a tree for this purpose, I always want to learn, real ways, not what might have been. Again, this is not a flame, I just can't find doing it the way you say anywhere. Please don't say it's something that was never reported or described or written about, that it's just some secret way handed down...
Its a strangler fig, trees are one of my fields of study. strangler figs spread when they cant climb once a wide base is established then they rise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Wolf
When your Atv runs out of gass, and your shotgun mis fires its final wet load,Quote:
Originally Posted by klkak
you would be to take care of yourself.
Klkak, Survival is a life style, yours must be like madd maxx, (thugs with guns) and dune buggies looking to take from someone who worked to earn what they have. Horticulture, is a very important aspect of survival, that helps to leave something for someone else.
Theres not much info out there, and i am not so sure that what is availible is accurate. when I posted this thread i was hoping for suggestions or methods that work. I have done experiments with fish sized bones and small glass knives. now I am expanding that research in hopes of answering those "UNKNOWN" questions, Was it done for conservation, The iron hard connection of wood and stone in a tool like this cannot be duplicated by any other means. these techniques are important to know even if you never make use of them. And remember that someone cherrished even the stones more than we do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Wolf
And the Academy Award for most theatrical post goes to:
come on you know who you are::rolleyes:
I haven't seen so much warmth and friendship since my dog got neutered
klkak: when you were on the rez, did you look around? there were a lot of us around. we all went through it
get on with life, don't use it as a shield/crutch
Gray Wolf: prove him wrong, give the book, page correction of his post
not many books were written by paleo peoples, word of mouth passed on at night around a communal fire, on the trail, while actually participating in a task etc....was the norm
today we are trying to reclaim some of those truths...memory is not always long enough so we have to retro understand and try out what happened.
As far as being only about "survival" in the bush well no one can tell what small skill knowledge acquired here will serve them in a time of need.
As I said before, sort it out by trial and error, ignore what you don't want
get on with your lives.
Personally I wont loose sleep over it. yoh
(but it does make for a good gigggle)
Folks all this is kinda interesting, if it was done or not I don't think we will ever know. I do know one thing, in a survival situation nobody would waste their time on this method. I am sure IF I wanted to attach a "rock" to a stick I could find a live tree with a fork, put whatever in it and have wood on both sides. Good for one good THUNK on somebody's head and then take his hatchet, knife, food, women, booze and probably the other useless stuff he worked so hard to hoard. That is either survival or too much "shine" on a Sat. nite.
If we consider this as a form of agricultural practice, wood lore has more to say.
Tsitenha: Yes I looked around. I know I wasn't alone. When I left the rez, I left for good. I never returned not even to visit. I don't use my experience there as a "shield/crutch" either. In fact I rarely ever think or talk of it. However, I have never forgotten the lessons I learned there and the years following my Fathers death. The only reason I brought it up in my post, was to reveal that survival for me was not and is still not an "interest, hobby or pass time". It was also to let our forum brother know that I have more then just a passing knowledge of the primitive ways. In fact, it is not uncommon to find me out by the shed making stone tools or a bow (both "self" and "backed").Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsitenha
Now, for me this subject is a "dead horse".
Eugene, If my ATV were to run out of gas and I had fired my last round. It would be but an inconvenience. If I were to die because of it....I am ready and have been waiting my turn to go "home" for a very long time.:)
Everyone: Please forgive me for my aggressive comments.
Hey Klkak, how is your ankle? I have not heard anymore about it. And how is Mrs. Klkak? I hope you both are doing better. I am glad that you are taking the time to share what you know with your decendants.Quote:
Originally Posted by klkak
-Sam
Sam, I have an appointment on the 6th of this month to have my cast removed. At that time they will x-ray it. I hope it shows the bone has healed. I will be posting an update about my wife in the next day or so in the thread "Brain Tumor". Thank you for asking.
erunkis, Would you please quit side stepping GW's question.
How did you determine the age of that tree?
Spell it out in plain English. Either you have a factual source or you injected your own truth!
Which is it?
I asked a horticulturist on Islamorada Key about that tree and others in the local island area. The mans name is Brian Zarcone. He is also a diving instructor/ tour guide.Quote:
Originally Posted by klkak
Klkak, no apology needed to me
if I apologised for every idiot word out of my mouth I'd be forever on my knees
The strong ones made it of the rez and did stay out...you made it:D
Some of the things that Brian told me about the red Mangrove was even more amazing than that Strangler Fig.
I did, I posted what Mac had found....Quote:
tsitenha
Gray Wolf: prove him wrong, give the book, page correction of his post
Here it is again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pict
That's why we have Paleontologists, Archeologists, Anthropologists, Historians, etc. The dinosaurs didn't write or have those communal fires, but amazingly we know so much about them. Ötzi the Iceman died by himself, yet we know what he ate, carried, wore, his tools, his weapons, that he was in a fight with at least two people, won, but died a few days to a week later. and he was from 3300 BC.Quote:
tsitenha:
not many books were written by paleo peoples, word of mouth passed on at night around a communal fire, on the trail, while actually participating in a task etc....was the norm.
Isn't history amazing....
I understand the curiosity of some of these posts and the interest in learning about the ways things may have been done. With unfamiliar and different things come the questions that are asked for clarification and understanding. When people are passionate about a topic and get questions or challenges they may tend to not appreciate it. Like I've always said, if you don't like the answer, don't ask the question.Quote:
Originally Posted by erunkiswldrnssurvival
As far as the Madd Maxx comment - I must say that if I was in a survival situation - atv or not, shotgun or not I would be mighty d***ed glad to have somebody like Klkak with me to help me through the situation.
A lot of trees's limbs fuse when they touch, and if you scrape the bark off down to the wood where the limbs touch you get even better results. the weapons book barely describes an assumed probable method. nice try.
Nice try???? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by erunkiswldrnssurvival
FROM THE BOOK:
"making a split into a growing tree limb, then forcing the flint head into it. The tree seeking to heal its wound fills the split tightly around the stone......"
How is that an assumed probable method????
Do you even know who Edwin Tunis is, or the books he's written?
Sorry , What I meant was that method is just one of many that all complete the same basic job, different processes hold different ways, not all stones want to gripped that way , some times braiding limbs togather with the stone in it is more manageable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Wolf
Just for curiosity sake, have you grown any handles into or around rock yet that have successfully made a working tool. If so, I'd love to see the pics.
I have done knife blades that way, I have a couple friends in NC that grow knife and adz handles with this method of various ways... unfortunately I havent any useable pics to share, I'm sorry about that.