The actions for your piece should be so familiar to you that they're muscle memory. If they're not, you need so spend more time putting rounds downrange. And glock has a 40 as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by remy
Printable View
The actions for your piece should be so familiar to you that they're muscle memory. If they're not, you need so spend more time putting rounds downrange. And glock has a 40 as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by remy
I've looked at the 17, 19, 21 and 22 but I'm not a 9mm lover. The Illinois State Police carried 9mm when I lived there and they all complained about it. I was a bit surprised the the US Army went with the M9. The .45 has been around for so long and been battle tested in every environment. It just works and my mind is wrapped around that.
LMAO, Rick, I was thinking that too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Rick, maybe I can help since this is one of my particular areas of interest. Sadly, there is no "perfect" CCW gun. Many factors influence what one will carry including...
1. Your size...can you hide it?
2. The cost...can you afford it?
3. The caliber...will it stop the assailant?
4. The manner in which you want to conceal it.
5. The comfort of the carry...will you carry it once you have it...
There are others, but they pop out at me. I have a Kel-Tec P32 .32 ACP with a pocket holster that I tuck away when I'm out and about. Past that I have other pistols that I pick and choose from depending on where I'm going and what I'm going to do. As an officer, I can carry in all 50 states, yet I don't live by that. I really don't feel the need to have a pistol with me all the time, but because I can - I do. I got a concealed handgun license here in Arkansas about a year or so before I got into LE.
Rick, consider the above factors that I mentioned. I am an ardent proponent of Glocks for a host of reasons. I can testify that all of the .40 calibers are excellent guns. I've never even handled their 9mm versions, but I have complete trust in them. Their .45 ACP models are also terriffic and so much so that we just switched from .40's to .45's. I feel the 10mm and .357 Sig rounds are unnecessary and often difficult to locate. I like being able to walk into the local WalMart and get ammo if I want it.
If you want something to conceal the "baby Glocks" are concealable, however, there are many guns that are much smaller on the market. The Sig P229 is also popular in professional circles where gun carrying is a must. At this moment I am wearing a .40 Glock 23 on my belt beneath an untucked polo shirt. Why? I was out driving around in my patrol Jeep which I won't be caught in without a gun due to presence of blue lights and other "hey I'm a cop" features.
If I were you I'd stick with .38, .40, .45, or 9mm. Try the Kahr brand. They're coming out with some good products in small sizes, and many are turning to the Springfield XD series. A month ago I shot qualifications with about four other rangers, and I was the only one with an automatic. The others were shooting subcompact .38 Spcls. They're still popular although I highly recommend "hammerless" if you're going to get one. If you've got anything more specific I can help with let me know. I'll be in the mountains most of this week away from the computer probably, but I love to talk this talk.
Think about your typical manner of dress then consider exactly where you can conceal your gun. I hate ankle holsters and think they're stupid although many love them. After you have determined each of the locations where you can put your gun in a hidden manner start looking into models. If you find something you think you can conceal then I suggest getting the biggest caliber you can shoot in it.
My $0.02.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine_Sapper
The .40 S&W is popular in law enforcement. I've worked for three agencies that issued them. I have qualified as an expert with a .40 every time I have ever had to qualify, and I have my own personal .40 weapons. I love the round.
The .45 ACP is viewed, however, by many as the best man-stopping pistol cartridge ever developed, yet in recent years the .45 has been overlooked due to limitations in magazine capacity such as with 1911 frames and even Sig Sauers. The .45 Glocks are meaty, yet the weight of them eliminates a lot of barrel rise while the recoil isn't much more than with the .40.
Why am I stating this? I don't know. Bored maybe... :o
imho ankle holsters are great, but not for your primary carry. typically to hard to get to. however, if you're in a situation where you're going to be carrying a primary and a "holdout", an ankle holster is a good way to avoid having two handguns bulking up your torso.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkansas_Ranger
Rick, I think the rules of shooting and real estate are similar. Location, Location, Location.
I have used various calibers in my time, and I like all of them. I don't carry a pistol because work in a place that serves booze. I have used the 9mm a lot all over the world. You might look at Glaser Safety Slugs for what ever you decide on. They hit hard and don't pass thru a person. I shot a 'target' in the gulf with a 9mm from 15' and the wound looked like I used a .410 on him. Just remember to get a weapon that you can shoot well. Ergonomics and all that. It sounds like you are a used to wheel guns, why not look at the Ruger sp101 in .357? 5 shots in stainless with rubber grips. very compact. Well I will shut up now. I hope this helps.
All great advice and I appreciate everyone taking the time to respond. I'm going today to a gun shop and "feel" what they have. Thanks!!
Oh, I know, but the weight of the gun hanging on the end of your leg is just too akward for me to ever get used to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine_Sapper
RicK - the XD 45 is a good choice as well as the 40. I carry both. My XD 40 is the sub compact that comes with a shor (7 round) and extended mag. the extended mag is more comfortable in my hand (place for my pinkie) but the 7 round mag makes concealment easier depending on your method.
As far as concealment - I use several methods depending on what I'm wearing and doing. Fanny pack, Thunderwear, pager holster, shoulder bag. I'll snap some pics when I get a chance.
That would be excellent. Thanks. Holsters are like your favorite knife. They either fit or they don't.
I've got a little sw 357 j frame with a shrouded hammer.
As a guy who doesn't own a gun, I was just wondering how much you are planning on paying for a handgun. I've enjoyed reading this thread, but have very limited knowledge and honestly, I find the all the numbers/lettering very confusing.
Anyway, when you make a decision, post some pics please.
A lot of good advice here and like a knife it comes down to what works for you. I like wheel guns myself and it varies what I carry depending on what I am wearing but the one that always goes with me is a Bond 45 derringer. I can slip it in my posket or waist band and no body is any the wiser, I used to put a 410 shell in one barrel and a slug in .45 round in the other back when I was driveing a cab. Not all that accurate but iat the range I was designed for it would make quite a mess. Only had to pull it out one time on a drunk that had a knife but it was right there when I needed it, and yes he sat down and waited for the police to get there.
I'm a wheel gun man myself. I've always considered them "better" because they have less moving parts. Less things to go awry when you need it. However, I decided I'd go with an auto this time. And I made the leap. I bought the Springfield XD 45. I got the 4 inch service model. It comes with two 13 round clips. I'll post some pics when it comes in, which should be Thursday or Friday.
Aurelius - The base price was $539.99 and after Gov. Mitch added his share it was $577. 79. It comes with a carry case, holster, two clips and a thumb guard (?) I found some on the net for $466 but by the time you throw in shipping and a local FFL shop fee it was the same price. I found a few for quite a bit more.
That old Enfield .303 was still there with a tag of $299 on it and he wouldn't budge on the price. I tried to wheel and deal with him but he just pointed to the tag. It's still in his shop. I told him it had been there so long he'd have to pay it a pension but he wouldn't budge. Oh, well. There's one out there with my name on it.
Rick Here are some concealed carry options pictured below.
First pic:
On the left shoulder holster for large cal revolver (Super Redhawk w/scope pictured)
Moving right Thunder Wear will hold small/med/large frames (XD40 sub compact pictured)
Staying on top row chest band with left and right carry (S&W Sigma 9mm pictured)
Moving down two leather inside the waistband holsters
Moving left Ankle holster (Beretta 380 pictured)
Moving down and left Another ankle option (S&W Sigma 40 pictured)
Moving right Fanny pack (XD45 pictured)
Moving up leather inside the waist holster w/cell phone clip upper (Ruger 9mm pictured)
All the way to the right another shoulder option (Taurus 9mm pictured)
Second pic:
Heres another look at the weapons sans holsters
Third pic:
And again
Thanks, Crash!! A lot of options. I appreciate you taking the time to take the pics!!!!!!!
The best carry rig is the one you make yourself. Very simple to make, and you can modify it for yourself. For instance a '45 carry rig using two squares of leather with the gun wet formed on the side next to the body can be made to fit exactly where comfort and availability is #1. If it ain't comfy you ain't gonna wear it. I know men that carry with safety off and empty chamber. I carry one in the pipe and safety on. Keep your finger out of the trigger guard until you are ready to shoot, safety can be knocked off with draw. Don't try Weaver or any 2 hand stance, by the time you try to line up the sights it's too late. Use front site only. 10 to 15yds is a good practice range. Slow & smooth, speed will come with practice. I fired 50 rds per day for years and consider myself about average. Takes a while to train the muscles to work with the eyes. I can get your shirt button at 15yds, don't shoot as much now but still fire all I reload.
The Springfield XD is like the Glock (Why am I telling you what you already know?). There is a grip and trigger safety rather than a thumb safety. I should be able to carry one in the chamber because it can't be fired unless both are squeezed, which you do when you fire it.
Here is another link to state by state laws on carrying a handgun. I didn't realize it (actually never thought about it) but my permit (Indiana) allows both concealed and open carry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law...state)#Indiana
Rick, I don't know a heck of a lot about handguns, but I figure, you know your basics and what you're comfortable with, all I can say is....if you have to shoot someone, you don't want him to be still standing there when you're done. Lotsa good .45ACP's out there.
45ACP is one you can count on. Nothing like a big chunk of lead to get attention. My favorite and one that I don't think can be beat. Newer ain't always better. I carry a Beretta 45 but I guess somebody's pocket got lined to push the Beretta 92F on the military. High cap mags I guess and the 9 is ok but in the states I don't plan on needing 30 rounds, If I do I shouldn't be carrying. Just my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by trax
Good for you! I like it. It's a mans gun. I'll quote the Commandant of the Marine Corps from back in the day when others were going to the 9mm: "We're staying with the 45. You can hit them in the finger and knock them down".
Same reason they use the 5.56 round in the standard issue weapon instead of the 7.62. American military doctrine says if you kill a soldier, it takes one out of the fight. If you wound a soldier, it takes three out of the fight. The one you wounded, and the two buddies that have to carry him off the field. It would be a great concept if it wasn't flat wrong, imho.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole WV Coot
Interesting. Also the Japanese doctrine during WWII according to an uncle that served in the Pacific Theater as a Marine. Also one of the reasons they went to a wooden bullet in the Arisaka 99 rifles. He was wounded with one.
Wow. Talk about a huge freakin' splinter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
He was wounded three times. Twice with lead and once with wood. He said the wood was by far the worst just because it lob lollied and splattered when it hit. As I understand it those wooden bullets would burn up before they made 100 yards so the optimum range was about 30 yards or so on them. All my info is second hand by the way, from him.
Rick, I think the Germans and the Japanese used wooden bullets because of resource problems (no lead) we had a wooden 'sentry' round that would wound a person as well as make noise. If the shot was taken in error (bad light, did not know any thing about base ball etc.) then it was'nt as bad as killing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Could be, Sam. I know both used wooden rounds for training. Some of those still exist. Thanks!!
Well, it finally came in. I said I'd post a pic so here it is. This is the Springfield XD .45 4" Service Model with the 13 shot clip.
It's a nice weapon. I think you're going to like it.
I'm heading to the range later today. We'll see.
13 rounds of 45 should hold you, no need for an extra mag to carry. It looks like a nice pistol, haven't had a chance to try one yet but I will. Can't beat the 45 in my modest opinion.
Looks like an excellent choice to me Rick. Can I have it? (Figured it worked for klkak the other day, so what the h***:D)
I have a springfield 1911 .45 that is just the sweetest shooter I have ever had. It is by far the most accurate hand-gun I have, but I am still trying to figure out how to conceal it effectively :(
If I get in a tough spot that is the first gun I would think of. I went through the CCW "training class" that they make us all take here in Kansas and outshot my pop, who is a qualified expert from SF (Special Forces). He was 2 parts irritated and 1 part proud :P I attribute it to the gun, he let me shoot his sig sauer .45 and I couldn't hit anything either o.O
yeah coot; i always figured if you got problems two 6rnd magazines won't get you out of then magazine capacity isn't your issue and it may be time to try diplomacy :D
I went to the range today and that new gun must need to be broken in. Either that or it needs more range time. It doesn't shoot very well. There are supposed to be holes in the target after you get done shooting aren't there?:o
Well as long as there aren't any holes in other range users or employees, you're doing ok. Oftentimes, where there aren't holes is every bit as important as where there are. You can trust me on this, and does anyone know how to stop arterial bleeding by the way?
waaa haaayy haay it a minute...I think this means you should give the gun to Trax! yeah! yeah! that's it, yeah!
It really is a nice shooter and very comfortable. The 13 shot clip is a bit longer than I thought it would be so concealment is going to be a bit of challenge but not too bad.
My dad had some .32 ammo that was waaaaay old. I took it with me today just to see if it would shoot. After the fifth click I gave up on it. It's kind of challenge to second guess that stuff. "Hmm. Is it a slow burn or a no burn?" Fortunately, they were all no burns.
You probably hit the target......just picked up a box of ninja ammunition by mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick