I've got a bunch of little round button sized magnets plastered on the front of my roll away. Could always drop one on the hole just for the fun of it.
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I've got a bunch of little round button sized magnets plastered on the front of my roll away. Could always drop one on the hole just for the fun of it.
The problem with char cloth is that it is not tinder. It's not even along the lines of cotton balls or dryer lint. It's basically half of an ignition device. Useless by itself, but compatible with a sparking device. However, it still requires tinder, and good tinder at that. You pretty much will need a birds nest with very dry, small, burnable fibers. A little red ember on a patch of burnt clothing doesn't produce much to get a flame going.
Therefore if you have the char cloth on hand, AND a sparking device, then you still have to go out and find your tinder. Why not just keep cotton and your sparking device on hand? A char tin full of cotton will last just as long, only you won't need dry tinder either, you can light sticks directly with the cotton.
To me, char cloth would be one of those rare things that you would create on the fly when you had limited materials on hand and weren't sure how you'd get your NEXT fire going. It's definitely not something you should carry out in the field to get your FIRST fire started. I mean you can, it won't hurt anything, but I find it pointless.
If you are using a ferro rod I agree that char cloth is an unnecessary step.
Now if using flint (rock)and steel (knife blade or striker steel....NOT ferro rod) it will catch a spark much, MUCH, easier.
Flint and Steel does NOT produce the shower of intense sparks a ferro rod fire steel does.
To totally discount it is very wrong....as store bought ferro rods are not always around, flint (a generic term for any sparking rocks) and be picked up off the ground in many places....You just need a piece of steel to strike.
Any and all fire starting methods require some sort of tinder..........even if it an esbit tab.
Opinions certainly vary. I find that most people that discount char cloth or charred material have very little experience with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjasurvivor
I beg to differ. Tinder is easily combustible material used to ignite fires by rudimentary methods, thus char cloth is considered as TINDER.Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjasurvivor
DomC
Very good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by DomC
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tinderQuote:
tin·der [tin-der]
noun
1.
a highly flammable material or preparation formerly used for catching the spark from a flint and steel struck together for fire or light.
2.
any dry substance that readily takes fire from a spark.
I hear from a good source that charred cattail fluff makes a good spark catcher. Been going to try it but usually end up with a pocketful of fluff which ends up making a mess. LOL. This is before I get a chance to char it.
Charred cattail fluff makes a great tinder. I read on-line about somebody using it and thought - "No way. It'll just burn up". So I tried it - works fantastic.Quote:
Originally Posted by randyt
Sounds like a plan, anytime I can resupply from the land, that is a good thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by crashdive123
It's considered tinder by definition, but char cloth can not be brought to a flame by itself. They consider paper tinder too. It's also very difficult, if not impossible, to bring to a flame from a spark. I've done it with paper towel, but regular copy paper is very difficult.Quote:
Originally Posted by DomC
I just watched a guy last night demonstrating his char cloth skills. First off, he started with a tinder nest of really fibrous dry material that he brought from home. He strikes the char cloth with the flint and steel. It gets an ember. He blows it into the nest and it eventually goes out. This was his "demonstration" video, and he was experienced. It's just not that easy. He eventually got it lit, but it's a really impractical way to make fire.
I suppose you could watch someone waste three matches or empty their BIC and come to the same conclusion. There is far more at play than just the combustible material. Moisture content, type of tinder, wind and experience are just a few of the things that will impact success. In the end, if you don't like a given method then don't use it. Fire good. I don't care how you make it.
1) Just because some one make a video doesn't mean they are anything except 1) a guy, 2) guy with camera ...that's it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjasurvivor
2) Impractical way to make a fire?.....LOL...Char cloth has been around since , Oh I don't know....Fire?....So there is a valid reason to make and use it.
All ways are not for everyone.....some have better luck with some ways than others.
So I'll put you down as...
Ninje...char cloth bad.
Personally I think fire pistons are just silly........
Some day I may relate my char cloth cigarette lighter story.
I guess what I'm trying to get across is that char cloth is better served when used as a means to get future fires going once in the field. Not as something to start out with it.
Sure, if you want to test skills and use flint and whatnot then that's fine. But it's not like you'll ever stumble upon flint in the wild and happen to have charcloth and a piece of steel on you. That's a completely unrealistic scenario.
That's just a wrong assessment.......You don't like char cloth, I get it....Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjasurvivor
Carry on.
Well, rocks that spark are just about everywhere. It wouldn't be unrealistic to have charcloth and a knife or cut up the bottom off a T-shirt and make charcloth. If you were in the proverbial, "gone to survive in the woods with only a knife" you could certainly make it happen. Not unrealistic at all. In fact, knowing how to do just that when you have only a knife would be one way to save your bacon. You'd obviously have to get your first fire going with flint and knife but the rest would be pretty easy to do. Just a matter of heating the cotton cloth until it off gases without letting it catch fire. I doubt Grog carried an Altoids tin with him back in 6000 B.C. or whenever. And....if you are in the habit of carrying charcloth it would be snap.
While I've not personally tried this, or needed to do it, I heard that scraping denim can yield a fluff of cotton which can be used to catch a spark and turn it to flame. This would be a step up from an ember. Might as well do that with the fabric rather than turn it to char cloth, since either way you'll need a way to put a spark to it.
I'd love to take some of you guys out to the desert with me sometime. It's nothing but rocks as far as the eye can see. Small rocks, big mountains, and everything in between. I'd then send you out into the vastness and say "You go find me the rock out there that sparks on your knife". By the time you come back with it my body will be nothing but a bleach white skull and scattered bones, that's how long I'll have been dead for.
Now you are just being silly......
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjasurvivor
We get that you don't care for char cloth, but you are just flat out wrong about its usefulness to countless others. As has been said - it won't be everybody's cup of tea.Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjasurvivor
I must say though that it seems as if you are arguing just to try and prove you are right and those that disagree with you are wrong. I don't believe that is the point of disagreements in this thread, although if somebody posts something that is "flat out wrong" they will be called on it. An example of that would be my posting about the expiration date on Quick Clot. I was glad that somebody corrected me, as it may certainly help me in the future. Everybody will have their preferred methods of doing things. All that means is that they personally prefer doing things a certain way. It does not mean that your fire, my fire, or the next persons fire is any better or worse - just started in a different manner.
I would'nt have to venture far...I'd open my Hudson Bay Tobacco tin and produce my steel striker, pieces of chert, charcloth, jute twine and spark you up a fire...Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjasurvivor
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1f5eea51.jpg
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/...psbb2f4d67.jpg
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9877c366.jpg
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8d8355e9.jpg
You see, it pays to be prepared and survive. Being an ex submarine sailor I learned that every valve on that boat had a backup valve. The back-up to this is a BIC & LMF ferro rod in my pocket...
Dom
Great kit, Dom......like the brass box my self.
I have dug up a piece of a rock (I gonna call it flint as it did spark) and was used to start the camp fire for the weekend.
Walk around on any roof that has a rubber room cover with "washed river gravel) and I gonna guess you can't walk 10 ft before you fine a rock that will "spark".
One of my patch knives is also a "fire steel"...(NOT a Ferro rod)
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...CT0768crop.jpg
I'm gonna sign off this thread as we are in the downward spiral toward the drain......
Y'all have a good one.
Actually, it's the steel that produces the spark not the rock...but you all knew that. :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by alaskabushman
LOL....yeah, "I Stand Corrected"...
Actually two pieces of pyrite will spark by striking them against each other......an I suspect this was a very early "find" many eons ago.....before steel.
I was just giving ya a hard time. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by hunter63
I have managed the same thing with two pieces of quartz, but was unsuccessful at getting it to catch charcloth, maybe I should try again.
I haven't done it either....just the spark part.
Around here pyrite isn't found normally, so I haven't pursued this either.....
Have seen a vid......but that really doesn't prove anything.
Actually, two rocks will spark with no steel. Try chert on chert or granite on granite. Unfortunately, it's just piezoelectric and you'll probably never capture it. However, you can spark tourmaline, quartz and pyrite along with flint and chert. I've read that jasper and agate work but have never tried it. I suppose if you were in a survival situation and had some carbon steel of some type tapping on a few rocks might be in order.
First of all, fire making is a much ado about nothing situation. It's either super easy or incredibly difficult, depending on circumstances. If you are approaching it with the proper kit, then obviously you should have no problem. Things like making fire with rocks with a hardness of 7 or greater, or using fire pistons, and bowdrills....that's getting into the esoteric methods of fire making that are not really applicable in most circumstances.
Everybody has all these fire kits (myself included), but it's like how many ways can you reinvent the wheel? My personal opinion is that the leather pouch, birch bark, flint and steel, char cloth stuff is a throw back to the old school romantic notions of fire craft. Again, if that floats your boat, that's fine. I just don't see any point under any circumstance of running around with char cloth. Aside from creating it after you've already made your first fire, in that highly improbable survival scenario mentioned earlier.
Tic toc, tic toc
Survival has a lot to do with being prepared. Being prepared means having the proper knowledge and skill required to keep yourself and others alive. Most of us on here like to have multiple skillsets, its just a smart thing to have in the wild. Being thrust into a survival situation rarely (I submit never) happens slowly, your canoe flips, your plane crashes or your vehicle goes up in flames. We all like being prepared for whatever may come but there are times we may not have our beloved survival kit. Do I know how to start a fire with charcloth? Sure. Do I do it every time I start a fire? No way, but I'll tell you this, I want to know how anyway! If I flip my kayak 20 miles from nowhere and my firesteel winds up in 60 feet of water I want to know what my other options are. I love firesteel and lighters and propane torches and flamethrowers, they are great; but sometimes, these things are not available. Maybe someday they wont be available anywhere, whether it be global nuke wars, super virus, or good ol' fashioned wrath of God. Might be nice to have cooked food during those times. Firesteels wear out, butane gets used up and matches can get wet. No matter how much "more" effective something else is, its somehow comforting to know how to start a fire with a piece of charred cotton, chunk of metal and a rock.
Thats all I have to say.
Well said sir.Quote:
Originally Posted by alaskabushman
Thanks for all the tips folks, I need to give char cloth a try!!
EB
It is not rare at all here in Alaska for people to find themselves alone and lost in the wilderness with basically what they are wearing at the time. See Ray Mears video on Alaska for a true life situation exactly like this. It is a tremendous comfort to me to know that I can light a fire using "esoteric" methods even if Im "naked and afraid" lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjasurvivor
I do agree to an extent on the char cloth. Char cloth is another skill that is great to learn and fun besides. But how neccesary to "survival" is it? If you have to remember to carry your charcloth with you so that you are capable of lighting a primitive fire in a survival situation, you can just as easily remember to carry your BIC lighter. One really hasn't learned **SURVIVAL** fire lighting techniques until one can light a fire totally from things gathered about him.
I'm experienced and comfortable lighting fires by flint and steel (literally Quartz in my area) using my carbon steel knife (no char cloth used) I have also lit fires with sparks generated from rock on rock (no char cloth used) as well as many many different varieties of friction fire such as Eskimo strap drill (using multiple found natural cordage), bow drill and hand drill. I'm confident I can light a fire using at least one of these "esoteric" methods if the need arises. How do I normally light my utility fires you may ask? With a BIC lighter. Hee hee.
Char cloth is another bushcraft skill that is great to know and just plain fun to use but not very practical for "survival" when there are better options IMHO
I dont think we have rock around here to make a spark, but its worth playing with on a play day. Otherwise I will be sparking my char cloth with a ferro striker.
EB
I agree. I see traditional flint and steel as more a "primitive living" skill than a strictly survivalist one. I think it's good to know how to do it, but if I'm lost or in a hyperthermic state I really just want the quickest easiest method of fire building possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by phreshayr
I actually went out yesterday and built a primitive fire with flint, steel and charcloth, while it might not be the ideal survival way of making fire it's definitely satisfying when you take the time to make it work.
In the rendezvous world...Mountain man re-enactment and earlier, you don see ferro rods use in the open.... only flint steel and char cloth....even have primitive fire starting contests ....most would use a match (called Lucifer's)....or a BIC........under cover.
Never owned a ferro rod till about 5 years ago....and to this day have started many, many, more fires with flint, steel, char cloth, than ferro rods.
Even lite my smokes (not any more now) with a steel snuff can, full of char cloth, flint, and a small steel....strike a spark get a coal, light your smoke, the close the can and snuff it out.
Showed a bartender how to use F&S for lighting his smokes and had given him a kit while on a "road trip" at rendezvous one year.......Stopped back all dressed up in buckskins the following year and the bartender wife, kicked us out of the saloon........hollering some thing about her stupid husband starting the drapes on fire the year before....showing off his kit we gave him.......
So I just find it hard to believe that any one would just flat discount this method....as it does have the, can be found in the bush, more so than say... a ferro rod.
Anyway, loading my primitive gear today for a outing.....will being bringing my Kit, but probably won't use it much as I quit smoking....
Yep, this is from our paper just a couple of days ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by phreshayr
He actually had his gear but very easily could have lost it all. Even WITH all his gear, he still had to be rescued.Quote:
Alaska National Guard rescues Kobuk River rafter
Posted: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 8:28 am
Associated Press |
ANCHORAGE, Alaska - The Alaska Air National Guard has rescued a hiker who had been rafting down the Kobuk River when his raft overturned in the Gates of the Arctic National Park.
Capt. John Romspert with the Alaska Rescue Coordination Center says the man contacted the National Park Service with a personal locator beacon able to transmit text messages. The beacon also sent out a signal transmitting his location.
Romspert says the rafter had all his gear, but decided he didn't have the right equipment to continue down the river.
The Park Service didn't have a helicopter, so it contacted the rescue coordination center. The Air Guard sent out crews in a helicopter and a HC-130 King aircraft.
Rescuers picked up the hiker and flew him to Bettles. He was in good condition.
That's a big piece of water in a very remote location. You have to give the guy credit for knowing when to call it a day. You know he had to agonize over that decision made worse by the fact he left the raft and gear behind. No small decision in his part.
I use an Altoids tin to make char with but have never made a hole in mine - the lid isn't air tight so the smoke escapes very easily. Once its cool, I just wipe the tin off and toss it in my pack.
If you're using a hinged tin, like an Altoids tin, you don't even need to poke a hole. That's only necessary with a tight fit like a shoe polish tin or a paint can. Otherwise there's plenty of spots for off-gasses to escape.
Hunter63 saying Hey and Welcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Fun
There is an intro section at
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...-Introductions