Printable View
Agreed. Wilderness is anything outside my home where the wild aminals roam. Whether they be four legged or two, fuzzy or decked out in fubu and ecko.Quote:
Originally Posted by remy
I was given a piece of the barb wire fence that runs through the DMZ, framed with a serial number as a Christmas present by my unit in Korea. It will always hang over the inside frame of my front door to remind me of the reality of crossing that threshold.
I reckon I've weighed in enough times so that folks already know my opinion. Wilderness survival is what I came here to learn, talk, and share what I know about. My opinion of the economic threads is basically...it all seems to be guess work and what the economy will do will fall somewhere between the two trains of thought, seems it usually does. What I have a concern with is...what a bunch of friggin' crybabies. Every time someone says something that someone else doesn't like it's time to jump up and kick sand at them and take your toys and run away crying? OK. See ya.
My hat's off to a certain gentleman who goes by the name Remy, three comebacks people, count 'em, three.
Now, I'm not terribly interested in buying metal or whatever, so I'm just going to go right ahead, scan what's said and not contribute to that thread. (Yep, I still look, I might just learn something)Someone else thinks they know all they need to know on snaring rabbits or building shelters in the bush or whatever, don't read the thread! Yowza what a concept.
Now then, I'm also of the opinion that if people want to learn more about "wilderness" survival as in the great outdoors, most of us have to take a look at our relationship with the earth and how we see ourselves in a natural environment. Most people don't. That, from what I've seen, includes most people here and I don't see that changing anytime soon or being changed by anything I'm going to say to them so I don't. People want to yack on about shtf scenarios and how they plan to defend themselves from other people more than anything it seems. Good luck. If it happens, it won't be what matters. We all have to exploit our environments to stay alive, whatever that environment is, but the question is....to what degree? Are you living to survive or basing your "survival" on good old greed? In another posting I stated that I'd rather have a "survival" knife than a gold brick in a shtf scenario. Someone asked what if I wanted to buy a boat? Hellooooo. And lucky me! I own knives, I'm coming up pretty short in the gold department (have some old broken neck chains that I could get melted together I suppose, might add up to a gram, don't care)
Anyway, if people want to leave or go away and pout, good luck to them, my only concern about all the economic posts is for newcomers looking for a wilderness based forum
trax, i dont think it has anything to do with "go away and pout". A person can only take so much. Everytime you turn around someone is jabbing you in the ribs, behind your back. (and not in a kidding way) hopeak and beerrunner are awsome guys with lifetimes of valuable information and it has been beatin away due to their views. hopeak has over thirty years in the bush....he has forgotten more than most of us (i will use "us") Conelickers "think" we know. A huge huge loss. :mad:
For me, I dont give a flying crap what some say about what I post. Economics is basic survival to me, and I havent lived in a city for over twenty years. Most people watch Dr.Phil and Opra before they will find out how the worlds economy is doing.
Oh,(this one really steams me) and forget about working hard when you were young, build a sucessful businness, put some wealth way and be debt free. You dont want to do that around here.
Every person has the ability to be economically successful. There are hundreds, if not thousands or even millions, of rags-to-riches stories. One of my favorites is Andrew Carnegie.
Reading books when I was 13 about how to become a self made millionaire when my friends were reading Archie comic books. What I saw was that of all of them, only one worked for someone else. Anyone who works for someone else is making their employer rich.
If you are in your 30s or 40s or 50s, in debt with no saving and looking for a 'job' working for someone else, well, you made some wrong decisions earlier in life. It's not my fault!
And to those who have PM,d me to stop posting about Doom & Gloom.........<scratching head and looking for the middle finger smilie>.........
Well now, that confused me. Take so much of what? How is anyone being jabbed in the ribs? No one asked Hopeak or Beerrunner to leave. Quite the opposite. If they leave, it's a decision they made on their own.
There are a number of you economy is in the toilet pundants that keep telling me I'm wrong. That's okay by me. I don't get mad. I don't care if you don't get it (he said tongue in cheek). You guys have every right to your opinion. I appreciate your position, enjoy discussing and cussing it. Each of you have made some solid points and each of you have made to bad ones (in my view). I'll bet I've done the same.
How does someone saying the world is roses and sugar plums stabbing in the back and someone saying the world is vinegar and sour grapes okay? It's nothing more than a different opinion. If some think they are out to save everyone by telling them TS will hit the fan, then sorry. There's no hero there. No more than someone saying it's just a cycle. It's still only opinion. If that makes anyone mad enough to leave then the skin was thin on the fruit to begin with and too easily bruised. What would they do if they encountered a real problem. This is, afterall, a forum. An electronic way to talk to one another. How that can get knickers in a twist is beyond me. Save it for when there is REALLY something to worry about like when the Colts lose.
Teeter Totter, Bread and butter, Wash your face in muddy water.......
Ive never said you were wrong Rick, just dillusional. j/k
I enjoy your replys and way of thinking. Its refreshing. Like roses and sugar plums.
I agree that people should stop Pm-ing you, post what you want. But see....a long time ago when we did talk about wilderness survival here, I recall a thread about getting a fire started in a snowstorm. You may have seen it, maybe not, doesn't matter. Here's my point, there was a lot of what I thought was bs in the thread and I told people what I knew from my experience. It's tough to get a fire started in a snowstorm, well duuuh. So....if someone's stuck in a situation like that are they going to stare up into the snow and say...a person can only take so much? Well boo-hoo,it ain't gonna get the fire burning, punkin. I agree, too, that those guys have a lot of stuff to share and they can share whatever they want in whatever thread they want. Nobody believes in freedom of expression more than I, you can take that to the bank. (Or you can sew it into your mattress if the banks collapse) But it seems to me that way too often people get all pissy about a bit of bickering and they're pulling up stakes and running off. Then we get two pages of people whining "don't go" or apologizing for what they said, apologizing doesn't un-say something. Doesn't really sound like that tough, pioneer/survivor spirit that keeps people facing down bears or rassling wolverines or whatever the f***, y'know? I'm just saying bon voyage, their choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by BraggSurvivor
I know what your saying trax, probably right. I was just sticking up for my likeminded buds is all.
I was not speaking for them, but I could just see someone thinking "is it really worth all this" or "this isnt the only survival site on the net".
(Ive thought it myself)
But, to balance out Rick, Ive decided it is now my mission to stick around. :D
Hot dog!!! No one else will argue with me.:o
Yeah. Figure the odds.
Rick,I would argue with you,but since I am female,I would have an unfair advantage:D:pQuote:
Originally Posted by Rick
No one else could be bothered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
(looking up insults in dictionary).....
uh-oh, expecting some sand kicking to start, there goes the shiny red plastic pail and shovel out of the playground. Maybe I should apologize to Ri....nah, never mindQuote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Sure people have different definitions for terms. However in the 19 years I lived in a large city, nobody I knew ever meant they were going downtown when mentioning the term wilderness.Quote:
Originally Posted by remy
As far as practical skills go, this forum still seems to be more geared at wilderness in terms of trees, animals, few people, rather than subways, Walmart and Starbucks. I'm not sure how pontificating on what fear is for my mind and how it expresses itself in my brainwaves would be helpful in either capsizing with my kayak or in getting mugged in New York City. Both causes fear but what I need in both instances is the skills to turn that situation around.
Anyway...your posts always befuddle my more moose-oriented mind :) don't want to get all hormonal here again as happened among members last week or whenever everybody was throwing fits...
Damn it remy, that's EXACTLY what I was gonna say!
:D
Great post....again, made my nipples hard.
You have to admit with that perception of survival, Remy, the forums could spread so far from survival related to the wilderness that it'll become unrecognizable. Let's say someone starts a thread on "eluding enemy capture in the bush", then someone responds with a thread "cover-your-trail: camo and ghillie suits" which in turn turns produces "lightweight flak vests". Eventually someone will take the opposite approach and play the hunter with "IR vs heat vision goggles" or "hollow point or slug, antipersonnel". Then Billy Johnson will google "wilderness survival" and think he's going to learn Eagle Scout-type skills only to find threads on how a ceramic flak vest is better at stopping a .308. Of course you can argue all the threads relate to survival, but how far off topic is too far?
Well then this forum might as well be called "world survival" if you're going to group everything into an all-encompassing discussion. Heck, why stop at the economy? Let's talk about survival on the moon! Because, alluding to your anecdote, what happens if TSHTF or TEOTWAWKI and we need to come out of the bush and hop a shuttle to a lunar homestead? Will gold be the currency of choice on the moon? How about buying up air and water since those are going to be the precious commodities. Should I start making moon threads? I mean, yes it's highly unlikely we'll be shipped off to the moon anytime soon but how much more plausible is it that the economy will crash and the world will go into fan-sh1t scenario?Quote:
Originally Posted by remy
Well I did not mean to stir up such a big to do. I got a couple PMs and even a phone call last night telling me I should rethink not posting here any more.
I did not take my toys and go away I got tired of hearing people complain and ***** about posts they did not like, not becuse of content but becuse of subject. DUHH don't read them if people think the the economy dosen't affect thier survival they are in denial. That and some of the attitudes here, such as if some one has not been here as long as them they have no right to an opinion if it dose not match thiers. It seems if one is not in Canaada, the western Mountains or up north it is assumed that they know nothing about survival according to some folks here.
As gvan, Catfish and a few others can tell you spend a little time in a swamp down here and you will find it is not a day at the beach. I have spent nearly 30 years working with the man who holds the second gator trapping permit in the state of Fl and another man who removes feral hogs and dose a lot of live trapping and cutting on boars. I have lived in a cabin off grid in Western Maine and spent a lot of time in the Montana and Wy wilderness so I know a few things. Not looking to get into a urination contest but some of the condsending comments I have recieved left a bad taste in my mouth.
I have learned a lot from both Bragg and Rick in regard to finaces, currently I am trying to get our debts paid of and my wife and I are stocking up on needed materials and knowlage as well as working with some real estate people and checking out land, as we are planing on setting up our own self sefficent homestead. In all likely hood it will be in Montana as I think I have found the property I want. But I have much to learn in the meantime and it's not all how to start a fire or what the best knife is.
In closeing I stand by everything I said before, but I see this forum as a great resourse and plan on continueing to use it. And if I get on someones nerves oh well you are probobly on mine already:rolleyes:
Glad your hanging around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitch.chesney
Hmm,....... the moon you say......There has to be a conspiracy theory or SHTF moon scenerio out there somewhere.........thanks for the ideas mitch!
Hey beerrunner, you know the Montana border is only 2 1/2 hours away from me. Meet up for a beer when you get set up.
Glad to have you back bro!
Thanks bud. I have a couple years stuck here till the wifes job ends and I am debt free. Unless my redneck IRA aka the lotto comes through. and you got it on the beer.Quote:
Originally Posted by BraggSurvivor
And thanks Crash
i find this site interesting and find myself spending alot of time reading and ocasionally posting. if i click on a thread and read the first post and am not interested is exit the tread. not a dificult concept. this site seems to be a wealth of knowledge.
i see where remmy is coming from to an extent. my thought is that whether or not i'm in the country or city my eqipment and skills are still valid. what i use here for hunting, camping, packing, and woods skills, you can use anywhere. i.e. look at new orlans for instance. if put in a situation where i need to get out. if all else fails the pack goes on the back rifle in hand and i start walking. (kind of like hunting in the mountains) stop set up camp and am good to go. the concept of being stranded by rising water because i've lived 20 years in this neighborhood and don't know anything else is uterly foreign to me.
everyone can apply woods skills for survival in just about any environment. its all prepardness and the right mental state that you can survive. i personally dont get into the end of the world scenerios, however i am very interested in homesteading and independent living and have found some great info on here. (not to mention all of the survival info)
Hmmm. Are you saying that you feel that we are chauvinistic? :( I hope I don't personally come off that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by nell67
Nope,not at all,women are notorious for their arguing ability!
Oh.. ok. I'll agree with you there.. know that from experience... lol.. :D I can be a stubborn dutchman at times.. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by nell67
I thought she was just saying that girls are smarter than Rick. My point was similar.....:D Mornin' Rick!:D
LMAO! I wont argue with that one Trax:D
It is all about the EGO: Everyone wants to bring the subject back to an area that they are respected for their expertise. If you know knives, that is what you want to talk about. If you know money, gold, real estate that is what you want to talk about. If you know survival shelters that is what you want to talk about. No one wants to be "OUT" of the conversation. No one wants to appear stupid. The forum is a bunch of "EGO's" looking for a chance to strut their stuff. Even the "long time members" is EGO STUFF. Junior/senior member is EGO STUFF. The whole forum is a space to sell advertising to people who want to get their EGO petted. Yes, Remy also, and yes, Me also.
Now your EGO is saying, "NOT ME".
Quote:
Originally Posted by remy
:) yes too long...Wilderness does tend to get romantisised (can't even spell that). I don't feel that way about it, I live in it, and for me it's a neighbourhood. I have some nice animal neighbours, one laid-back and friendly young black bear and a couple curious moose, a resident hermine, and I get food and water form certain places just as people do in the city. I don't think wilderness can be ever "understood" by plucking it apart into its molecular pieces because the entity and spirit of it will evade the numbers and statistics. The essence of a moose is not it's age, weight, health, sex or habitat, it's also the moose inching it's way across rotten lake ice and frolicking in the water on a hot summer day. For myself, wilderness as a place where I feel at home and where animals start to interact with me happens when I let go of analytical thinking and follow my gut feeling. It is all so interwoven that if you follow one or 100 threads of thinking, science, theory, you're apt to miss the whole. I'm interested in how I as a human can live in it, fit in, because humans did just that for the vast, vast majority of time of our evolution. "Surviving" in it to me is a short-term thing that I personally feel is only helpful in an emergency. To me, wilderness speaks to something deeply human in me. Sunlight reflecting on water, a caribou almost stepping into my kayak, seeing uninterupted forest creep up the mountains makes me happy and feel alive in a way the city, town and village can't. That's why I'm interested in it.
Actually, Chuck has a forum on wilderness living as opposed to survival (wilderness as in wilderness, not city), if anyone wants to learn more skills. He's got the website listed on his public profile.
I disagree hopeak, in fact that posting seems kind of bitter to me. I hope I'm wrong about that. Personally, I read a lot of threads before I ever joined and read a lot more before I ever voiced an opinion. I mentioned that my concern with some of the threads is the perception of new members coming in....looking for wilderness survival advice. I do read the economic threads, but seldom have a contribution to make. I'm always willing to learn more about either, the wilderness threads or the economy, and I think a lot of other people probably feel the same way.Quote:
Originally Posted by hopeak
I think if this was about EGO, a lot of people, myself included, would probably try to look like experts in areas where they have no real knowledge. We all know we have had plenty of that in the past too.
While I agree with what you say Trax, I also see what Hopeak says. Comments like "some people here have no skills, and their posts reflect it". That's a little egotistical sounding...Like saying you have all the skills and you can judge what another person can do just by what they post in the forums. While I understand what you're saying with that statement, and I'm not trying to pick on you, it struck me as a good example of what Hopeak was referring to.Quote:
Originally Posted by trax
Hell, I'm as egotistical as anyone else.
I try to tone it down a little. I don't try to appear to be an expert in an area where I'm not because I don't want to get anyone killed. Then there's a nasty lawsuit, etc. etc.
I think, with the possible exception of maybe Rick, that every member of the forum has been guilty of a little chest thumping every now and then. We're all human.
I am not "BITTER". I made a "MISTAKE". I am not bitter at the forum. It was my mistake. I admit that I error-ed. I am sorry, but not bitter.
I thought (In error) that the forum was about teaching and sharing usefully information about "SURVIVAL" and specifically about "WILDERNESS " survival. It is not. It might wish it was, it might think it achieves that goal. It does not.
People want to help, yes. The "FORUM" fails as a Valid "TEACHING/LEARNING" TOOL....Period.
Is it entertaining, YES. Does it sell ADVERTISING, YES. Is it a community, YES. Is it "FUN", yes.
But if I want to learn about a subject about which I know nothing, say, "CANNING FOOD".
I would not trust what was said here. Some may be valid, some maybe invalid.
Am I bitter, NO...... Disappointed with the results, YES.....
I will not post about what I have learned from thousands of close Brown Bear encounters, only to have it marginalized by someone who's only Brown Bear experience is from a book, or the city zoo.
I wanted to know what size (Horsepower) Farm Tractor to buy. So I PM'ed BRAGG and got valuable, useful information about what works, and what he has bought that is useless. I want Information from someone who owns several tractors, not regurgitated information from a book on tractors.
Sad, yes. Disappointed, yes.......Bitter,..... NO
"some people here have no skills, and their posts reflect it".
I honestly don't recall having said that, it being in quotes it seems you're attributing it to me and if I did say it, I must have left some of whatever I was thinking at the time out and I apologize to anyone I may have offended with it.
Unless of course I posted it in regard to something I thought was really really wrong being said about the subject at hand. I do get a little uppity at times.
It was paraphrased, and I may be wrong about that being attributed to you. I have read it several times on the forums though. I'm at work so I didn't have time to do a valid search on who orignally said it or the exact phrasing.Quote:
Originally Posted by trax
Hopeak - Where on the internet would you possibly go and get useful information that you know is correct? Not to pick on Bragg but what makes you certain his information is right? Maybe he looked it up? The forum is about everything you described including information on wilderness survival. Is there wrong information on gardening, sure. Tractor, sure. Wilderness survival, sure. It just inherent in the format. Any time you bring a diverse bunch of folks together with different backgrounds someone is going to say something that is wrong.
That's why it's important for people like you and wildwoman and WE and Trax and all the rest that live this life on a daily basis to step to the plate and say wait a minute. I've not seen anyone bashful about it yet. If I'm wrong, I want to be challenged. I say it because I believe it. Not to impress anyone. If I'm wrong and you educate me then I've learned something. Something I can keep with me the rest of my life. That's a pretty cool gift in my book. And I think the majority feel the same way.
And just because I'm feeling a little lonesome on this pedestal by myself , this is me beating my chest. (Thanks Alpine!!).
My apologies Trax...I did attribute something to you you didn't say...
Here is what I was referring to, and it's a little different than I stated it:
"There are those on here who make claim to much experience, yet their posts reveal their ignorance in many areas"
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...?t=2236&page=2 , post #36, by Sarge. This was the last one that I read that came to mind.
:o
However, I also need to add that re-reading the post by Sarge it doesn't come across as I first percieved it.
There have been some things said here that I have found just unbelievably stupid and I never hesitated in saying so. Someone wanting to throw ninja stars at a charging moose comes to mind. Nevertheless, for the most part I try to share what I am sure of, a long time ago someone said don't be posting things that you've never tried yourself and I follow that advice when it comes to outdoor stuff. My most important consideration is that someone doesn't get injured or worse because they followed my advice. I encourage new people to err on the side of caution, to try things at home or close to home before ranging out to where help is not available and to take extra precautions. Despite the teasing that I often use, I want others to be able to take from my experiences and have a more enjoyable experience in the outdoors (is in the outdoors an oxymoron? I digress) and I hope that people take the sarcasm and teasing in the spirit that it is meant in, fun. If not, well my bad I guess. If I'm "chest-thumping" when I state that I have certain expertise then so be it, I'm not going to pretend I'm stupid about something that I have knowledge of anymore than I'm going to pretend that I'm knowledgable about something I'm truly stupid about. We've beat it to death about outdoors versus state of the economy threads, but please note my lack of contributions on things like gardening. I suck at gardening, but I read very carefully all of the threads posted because I'm learning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine_Sapper
I'm at work too, by the way, and it's probably pissing my employers off to no end the lack of productivity coming out of my office since I discovered this forum. Oh well, I catch up. But, I am also a firm believer that each one of us owns what he or she says. We cannot throw statements out there that can be damaging and not bear the responsibility for that, whether the written word or in our day to day conversations. I find it unfortunate that many, many people these days don't think that. It makes us, in my opinion, less of a society and is indicative of much worse. Hence, if I never said something, I don't want people crediting me for it. I even try to get my quotes and sources properly accredited.
Alpine Sapper, I was typing all of this when you posted your response. I kindly accept your apology and state that no harm has been done.
Here's a good example of what Rick is saying. On another thread Mitch was asking about crushing pills to save space. My reply was that dosage may be a problem, but should work. Rick and Canid were quick (and very correct) to point out some of the possible hazzards of doing that which I had not considered. That's why I like the forums. We get to share ideas and learn from others experience. If those with the most experience in an area don't post for whatever reason - we all lose. There is a large mix of practical experience in a variety of fields. I hope to learn from all of you, and hope that on occasion I might be able to share some of my experiences to help somebody.
lol. Yeah, you and me both. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by trax
I just do not understand why it can not be improved. And Bragg owns two tractors, I could have asked a child in the inner-city who has never seen a real tractor. My point is we have knowledgeable members, and threads with 442 posts are entertaining, and confusing, just not clearly educational.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick