Funny you say that. When I was homeless, it was my "TV". Nothing to do before going to bed but sit and poke at the fire a bit before going to sleep. Flames can be so.....mesmerizing.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioGrizzLapp
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Funny you say that. When I was homeless, it was my "TV". Nothing to do before going to bed but sit and poke at the fire a bit before going to sleep. Flames can be so.....mesmerizing.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioGrizzLapp
haha, accidentally in the jungle. Oh my god man, seriously? Tell me how you accidentally end up in a jungle other than shipwreck or plane crash (in both cases you have a hell of a lot more to worry about). What, you're walking down the street and take a left instead of a right and suddenly you're lost in a jungle?
And the comment about ancient man being able to survive without fire just shows how much intelligence you lack. Stay out of the jungles of papau new guinea. Stay out of jungles in general. Stick to populated areas.
Let's not make it personal. Whether we agree of not, comment on the idea not the person.
I think that there is a place in a lot of people's minds that tells them that they CAN be dropped naked into anywhere, and survive,
that is hard wired from 1000's (or million's) of years of trial (live) and error (die).
Seems that the desire to try this out is still there, judging by the amount of interest shown in these scenarios..
Most all these scenarios quickly turn in to.......... "I can survive, naked with just my wits.....ah... and maybe fire....and a knife(new, pick one)...and yeah, yeah, maybe my .45 etc. etc.
My suggestion to you BH is, "Hey, go for it............... and let us know how it went".
While part of agrees with what you say here, the other part of me is afraid that he will....with Drastic Irreversible Consequences.Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter63
@Basic Human Before you do try anything I strongly encourage you to do Much more research on Survival. Here are some threads you might want to check out.........
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...t-Really-Works
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ve-in-the-Wild
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...erness-Numptys!
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ival-kits-info.
You've got it wrong, Camp10. He doesn't just hunt anything, he hunts fish. See?
And by the way. Bear Gryls does this very thing every week so I know it's possible!
LOL My nick name for the longest time when I managed Pine Lake Trout Club was...... wait for it............. "Trout Hunter," LOLOLOL ......mostly because my Choc Lab at the time would actually POINT on trout in the stream at the club... was actually really funny.
.......Actually, your post looks young to me (your lacking expression and considerable contradictions within)......Quote:
Originally Posted by Basic Human
Your age is of no consequence and IF I were to wake-up and find myself in a tropical jungle unprepared and restrict myself
to being a fish eating vegan that expects to survive without the aid of fire or tools...Well,...my days would be numbered few.
.......I think within the concept of survival...One MUST use everything within ones disposal to survive,...otherwise intellegence
is meaningless....One must adapt and adopt...and for the record, "I ain't crazy about eating bugs either".......................BH51
What can happen if I don't have fire. Chimps didn't die without fire. What if I don't know how to make fire. Chimps eat raw meat, other monkeys, mammals, they are cannibals and beasts and they don't cook their meat. Eskimos eat raw fish. Why do you think that person who does not make fire is absolutely dead, again this has no sence. Example that you can't teach a wild child, like a syrian gazelle boy who had 10 years in the wilderness, imitating gazelles, eating raw plants, did not know to make fire. The risk of death of a wild child is determined by the animal. I have given examples of a way of living, and Tom Hanks in his castaway film practiced for years to make fire, and he was alive for years without having fire. So I think your thoughts are irrational.
You do realize that Tom Hanks was in a movie, don't you? It wasn't real. There certainly is a lot of irrational thoughts in this thread, I will agree with that. However, you can't really expect anyone to take you seriously when we know nothing about you except the few posts you've made. Have you experienced time in a jungle in New Guinea? If you have not then your argument is theoretical at best.
Well now hold up, BH....You can't just suddenly change diet without negative consequence...
You'll have to sterilize food & water and adjust your anatomy to new conditions...Unlike chimps,
who are accustom to ingesting raw foods, the bacteria and parasites within...and,....the Movie
starring Tom Hanks, was just a movie...I'm sure he was eating fire cooked cheeseburgers between
shoots...and that brings us back to health issues within original scenerio...imagine yourself trying
to survive when you're so sick you can't even walk.............................................. ........BH51
BH- please don't come in here referencing Hollywood entertainment as sources for survival. Even the "survival" reality shows are 50-75% BUNK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Basic Human
Many have already stated it, but try to begin eating things raw and see what happens to your body. One cubic inch of raw steak has over 1000 parasites in it. Fire kills those parasites, it also dries out clothing, and repels certain bugs.
You can come on here and post a question, but unless you have been there and done it, don't question those of us who have.
OK BH here's a little experiment for you to try. For the next month eat just Chicken and fish(no "red meat" at all), for your meats. When a month has passed eat some beef. The sudden change in your diet will give you diarrhea. Oh and I'm talking about COOKED meat, not raw. In a true survival situation diarrhea can kill you just as surely as a bear can. Diarrhea will speed up dehydration, depleting your body of water. Or if you want to try it in another way, go drink water from a mud puddle. This is another good way to pick up nasty things to introduce to your intestines. Just do this here in "civilization" OK? That way you are close to medical treatment should you need it.
oh my god, this is too funny.
In fact, its to the point now that I can only make 2 assumptions. One, I was told not to say anymore. The second, you're a troll. Either way, you should really stop now.
I didn't tell you not to say anything else. I just said direct it at the idea not the person. But it's really kinda hard, ain't it?
I was gonna reply to it earlier asking how do I tell someone that they lack the intelligence for the hypothetical situation to survive sans supplies without it being directed at them? I was trying to respond to the idea....
my last post though, yeah, it was going to be directed AT him, hence my holding back... lol
BH is so out of his depth, I find it unfair (as though he were deficient) and futile to engage him; unless one's just looking for some fun. JMO, of course.
Carry on.
I did a similar experiment many, many times. We quickly run out of fresh fruits and vegtables, along with milk on and extended Submarine patrol. After the first two or three days, your fruit and veggies are either canned or dehydrated. Your milk is powdered. After several months of "nothing fresh" that first glass of real milk sure tastes good. Have a second one and you might not make it to the head in time. Same thing with fruit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocomoonskyeyes3
I just don't think that some people realize what a sudden change to your diet will do to your system. (No offense to Vegetarians) But any sudden change to your diet will wreak havoc on your digestive system. I once tried the Vegetarian lifestyle for just one month. When I changed back to an Omnivorous diet it took almost as long for my digestive system to re-adapt.(Ironically I lost MORE weight when I changed back)This was especially worse after I had just ate. Even what we would think are "Minor" changes can debilitate you. Like you say about canned versus fresh, even if it is the same type of item.Quote:
Originally Posted by crashdive123
It is FAR easier to drop something from your diet than to add something "New", even if you have ate it before. Adding new things will cause intestinal problems that you won't soon forget. So don't think that you can all of a sudden add new things to your diet without a consequence. I LOVE eating Steak, but very rarely do I eat it. When I Do eat steak, even though I have ate hamburger and other "Red Meats" I ALWAYS develop a short lived intestinal problem, usually a day or so in duration. But That is WITH eating "red Meat" already. I'm sure if I dropped all "Red Meat" from my diet and then started eating it I would experience more serious problems.
Ok, simply, in the scenario you rendered for PNG... YOU WILL DIE WITHOUT FIRE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Basic Human
I just looked it up, Tom Hanks (An actor in a MOVIE) took 9 days to learn 7 ways to make fire with native materials, NOT YEARS.
Unless you know how to use natural ultra-violet light to purify food and water in the wild, especially a South Pacific Island, you will die without fire.
You keep going OUTSIDE of your scenario, now you are talking about a boy that lived as a Gazelle for 10 years, that is Africa/Mideast/Persia. A whole different environment and eco system, although fire would help, there are other means to purify food and water in those land masses besides fire, although fire would be the most expedient and least waste of body energy.
Staying within your scenario of PNG... REALLY you will need fire to survive anymore than ONE day, it is true, so just suck it up buttercup. It amazes me you cannot see that, or you are too stubborn to listen to people that have experience and know what they are talking about.
I wish you well in your gaining knowledge in how REAL wilderness survival works around the world, until then, please, please, please be aware of your space and time and do NOT get lost.
I am going to refrain from adding anymore comment to this thread, it is futile to argue with someone with no knowledge of survival in any shape or form, it is like arguing with a drunk, you just get knowwhere.
Well, boys....I thinking we are being played.........So my advice is still....BH, go for it and then tells us how it went.
Over and out.
Hey Crash, US Navy - 1975 - 1991, I was a Torpedoman for the first 6 years of my Navy stint (boot, A, C, E, sub, basic sur, basic demo and then finally Coronado Island time for 28 weeks), most of my Sub time was on SSBN - 608 - Ethan Allen (Polaris) or it's sub tender - US Proteus AS19. 7th Fleet, 15th Sub Squadren, Guam-Polaris Point and Holy Loch Scotland were our two home bases. The last 10 years of my stint was with Team 8 UDT, like a fool, I vol and passed BUDS (won) my grid & frog sticker and had to early out due to wounds rec in D-Storm in 91 with my team. Out as E7. Glad to meet another "Bubble-Head."......I refused to eat the eggs after 3 weeks down, was tired of chewing the egg pebbles of the dried eggs and I never was explained why they were so freakin GREEN.
Sorry to go off topic.... figured I would use this thread for something productive since the thread is a FUBAR Ruse in the first place. :devil2:
You are SO right H63...but there's something about BH that people find irresistible and they can't quite let go. Don't know what the point is of this continued enagaement but I'm not above spectator sports.Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter63
Being played or not.... doesn't matter. We have too many that lurk and read. Some are really trying to learn something without joining into our little community. Someone has to refute this illogic. It is the only responsible thing to do IMO. Sometimes there are only 4 or 5 of we, the members, yet we have 40-50 that lurk.
EDIT: I just checked. Right now there are 8 members showing online, and 102 "guests", reading threads....sure some are spiders and such, but that is only a percentage.
If you can't survive without fire having it won't save you.
I am not military. I did not serve. But, I have many friends that did. You were still UDT in 91? A designation that was dropped a decade earlier?Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioGrizzLapp
Here are pics you posted as being 20 years ago. that would be 1991. You don't look like a Navy Seal or even a seaman. I could be wrong...
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/m...ck/11111a1.jpg
I was doing patrols out of Guam around the same time. USS Sam Houston SSBN 609. Forward ET. Refits alongside Proteus. We probably stumbled into each other over at Andy's.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioGrizzLapp
I've never heard that before but it makes perfect sense.
What do you guys mean 'being played'? I just joined so I'm trying to get a feel for this. Sweet place to share experiences I see.
Heard what?Quote:
Originally Posted by martinhys
It's when a person signs up, often using a proxy server (I'm sure you understand that term) to hide their identity and asks questions designed to disrupt the forum. How about proving to the rest of us that you too are not "playing" anybody and stop by the Introduction section to tell us a bit about yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by martinhys
Crash: LOL Andys Hut, love it, wow did that bring back some long lost memories. I wonder if that is still there or even if Polaris Point is still there anymore? Been a long time since I have thought of that place, I sure downed my share of beverages there and yes, we sure breathed some of the same ocean air. The Proteus, is at Bremerton and being used as a birthing ship for the dock/ship workers there, almost totally gutted from what we knew it. The 41 (The Freedom 41) Polaris Subs are now all toasters and Volkswagens LOL. I do not think any survived being scrapped, if you know of one, please let me know, would love to visit it. Many of our old crews go to the various reunions down at Fox Bay Sub Base each year for both the Old Pro and the SSBN's.
Batch: Yes, I was wounded Jan 22, 1991, honorably discharged Feb 23, 1991. From Feb to Sept of 91, I gained 67 pounds due to being a lazy arse and recovering from the wounds. That brought me to like 240-245 lbs. I lost most of it in 1995 when I started getting sick and then regained the weight back in 2002 when I was getting treated for Diabetes and Kidney failure steming from my former wounds and missing some body pieces parts. As for UDT, yes, most of us kept that designation through out our stints all the way up to our discharges. My DD214 & DD256n actually states Special Operations Assignment - Unit "G." Never ONCE did the US Gov't acknowledge me or Team 8 (Unit G) were SEAL's, we were always known as UDT or Special Operators/Operation Team. Even today with-in the circles, they are known as Froggies and not SEAL's from the orig designations of "Frogmen," in the 1950's and 1960's. I was never designated a "SEAL," therefore cannot claim myself as being a "SEAL." Today, team 8 now has the designation of SEAL Team 8. Actually, I was discharged with my Torpedoman designation....TM-7 with active duty stints with the "UNIT."
The last pic of the Tippi was a guy named Groundhog, not me, the 2nd one with my father was at the shop I owned and was taken during the time I was role playing the mountain man stuff 91 - 95, have no clue the actual date the pic with dad was taken, it was just during those times of my life. The picture of Bill and I was taken in Oct 1991 after I gained the weight in June-July.
BTW Batch, thanks for stealing my profile pics and trying to call me out here in public posts.....that one I will remember with out a doubt. I have nothing to hide, I just do not like flatlanders of zero military service calling out a former military person. I have the proof to back up what I say and I am not ashamed of my former military service, nor am I ashamed of my current health conditions, I received them both honorably.
Alaskan Survivalist: I disagree whole hardedly with your statement of "If you can't survive without fire having it won't save you." There are many I am sure frozen people in the past that truly wished they could have started a fire out in the wilderness. Having the knowledge and the ability to make fire will indeed save you or others lives in many of scenarios or situations, not just being frozen, but for sheer health reasons. I have never had to try to save myself or others w/o fire as I have always known how to make fire in the wilderness under many different conditions. Not having various skills will kill you and others. Maybe stated a different way, it could possibly be true, but stated the way you stated it, not at all true, and YES, I do get your gist of what you were trying to say.
I will stand by my statement, given the scenario the OP outlined and even changed many times, w/o fire, HE would die in a very short time. Change the scenario, yeah, maybe HE could survive w/o fire, depending on where and when but highly doubtful.
Nice to wake up this morn to coffee and such lively discussion :)
OGL - Don't get too miffed. We've had some pretty good posers on here in the past so views get a little jaded when you've dealt with them.
Then you probably spent time at Club Yobo, Yakatoris (sp?) and Talafofo falls. I went in with two other guys and bought a Guam Bomb for $25. We parked it in deployed parking and gave the guys running the lot a couple of bottles of rum to charge the battery every month. Below is my favorite picture of the USS Proteus. If I remember correctly it was hanging in the chow line for the mess decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioGrizzLapp
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/i...000/h90519.jpg
I had a motorcycle when I was there, those roads were made out of coral and would get like greesed snot on a door knob.. My friend Mark bought one of those NO seat cars and used orange crates as the seats. To be honest, none of those names of places sound familure, it was either Andy's, the AFB En Club or at the GF's for me. When I was there, I had a GF in Agana and hardly ever ate at the pro chow deck. The only female in town I remember was Chewy and at the Navy Base was Mongo Lips LOLOL That is a cool pic. I do remember that some of the torps in the storages were MK 11 and 12's, steam op torps, early WWII and late WW1 that were/are still viable and able to shoot from current tubes. My bunk on the pro was 1 deck down and near the fantail. I also rem having to go to sea on the pro when a hurricane hit guam, I longed to be on my sub at that time. I have a ton of pics and super 8mm movies from Guam, they are truly buried somewhere. I will PM you later on this stuff... boring to others I am sure LOL
Yeah, if you had a girlfriend there, she probably wasn't going to let you go to Yobos (or Cheap Charlies, or any of the other dozen clups that featured scantily clad people). One of my favorite Navy bars was the old Medicine Chest - the old morgue at the Naval Hospital. Plenty of cold storage.
Quote:
BTW Batch, thanks for stealing my profile pics and trying to call me out here in public posts.....that one I will remember with out a doubt. I have nothing to hide, I just do not like flatlanders of zero military service calling out a former military person. I have the proof to back up what I say and I am not ashamed of my former military service, nor am I ashamed of my current health conditions, I received them both honorably.
As I said I could be wrong. I have had the honor to know several Navy SEALs over the years. Because of the discipline they had to have to achieve that designation, I have come to see certain characteristics in them in general.
I have met many more people who make claim to be either Navy SEALs or Special Forces and who prove not to be. I recently had a guy claim to be a former Navy SEAL and he was talking to my buddy, a Marine, he gave his rank as Master Sergeant. Game over!!!
I have a buddy that grew up in the neighborhood that served in Desert Storm and had a confirmed kill. He insisted in claiming he was special forces even though we knew his rank through out and he never mentioned going through training for such. He told us once that he had to leave, he had just been called up. This was like 8 or 9 PM. The next day he came over and said he had gone to Iraq and performed a mission. I said you can't have even flown there and back. He said that they had commandeered the Concord!
You stated you were UDT and never designated SEAL. But, you went through BUDS. I was under the impression ALL UDT went through UDTR and ALL SEALs went through BUDS.
I did not steal anything from your profile. I remembered your having posted those photos in your Moccasin thread.
Stolen Valor should piss someone off a whole lot more than asking a couple of obvious questions. It is very common for fake SEALs to spend a lot of time reading and building a cover story. It is very hard to believe that someone with the mental toughness and physical conditioning to have completed BUDS could have become such a polar opposite of physical conditioning in such a short period of time.
BTW, I in no way implied that you should be ashamed of any military service. I hold no one in higher regard than those who have served. Nor, am I saying anything about your present health condition. I was merely stating it would be damned near impossible for a person of the physical conditioning of a Navy SEAL to gain 65lbs or what ever it was in 4 months. It would take a huge DAILY calorie intake.
Fire like anything else you have is a handicap if you don't know how to use it and the more reliant one is on it the more handicaped they will be. Fire is oversold sold for survival. If you need it for warmth are you going to stand by the fire all the time? The answer is yes and I have been out with too many that can't be pryed from it to do anything else. It's the same with sleeping bags and I have had to drag people bag and all into mudholes to get them out of the sack! When I hear you are going to DIE without it I am reminded of everyone of those useless #%$@'s.
Suddenly this thread has some importance. HahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by Batch
Batch, fwiw, I was consuming 6000 calories a day in OSUT and burning it all and then some. As soon as I went to Airborne School I started gaining weight. By the end of those 3 weeks I must have gained ten lbs. I got back home in July and by mid September I was up to 178. I went from 154 lbs to 178 in just over 2 months and I was not bedridden.
Just info.
One of my friends said that was the grossest part of BUDS. That you had to eat that much food if you wanted to even have a chance of making it. He was telling us how he was just shoveling food into his mouth. Train, sleep, eat like a pig.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter
And no, I'm not military, but I do have friends who actually are special forces, and I would be pissed that someone would lie about it, I just don't know how to discern a lie from ranks and military terms unfortunately.
If I recall correctly, one is a SEAL, one is a Ranger Medic, and one is a Ranger.
To cook or not to cook fish depends on the quality of water. Except cooking fish, what could I else use it for? I don't know any other usage of fire, that without fire your dead. I have searched sites and they say vegan is who eats fish and plants, I know what I heard. I don't know if your right.