End of Life Planning Effective Jan. 1, 2011

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Originally Posted by Justin Case

You seem to think I have never paid taxes before,, trust me I have and will again,,

It would bring the cost down,, If the government is controlling it the cost would come down,, as it is, the hospitals charge whatever they want to charge,, hence 400 dollar aspirins....

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The ONLY way that the Gov't could lower cost, is to lower greatly the goods and services provided.

If you believe what you just posted, it is obvious to me, that you have little understanding of this subject.

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Originally Posted by Justin Case

If the government is controlling it the cost would come down,,

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There's the problem, in a nutshell.

How can you actually believe that?

Maybe Competition is the answer,,

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Originally Posted by Justin Case

Maybe Competition is the answer,,

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Ding, Ding, Ding....we have a winner!

Now, before I get all excited, what do you mean by competition?

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Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit

Ding, Ding, Ding....we have a winner!

Now, before I get all excited, what do you mean by competition?

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The Government competing with the private sector LOL,,,

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Originally Posted by Justin Case

Really ? The VA seems to work quite well....

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Yep, I'm a Vet. Who steers clear of the VA. I feel just as safe if I visit some voodoo woman or some unlicensed doctor. I have heard too many "Horror stories" of VA hospitals. Thanks but no thanks.

There are some good Doctors that work for the Gov't....usually at places like Walter Reed or the equivalent. Most of the Doc's around here have similar stories said about them.

You are about as good not seeing them as you are seeing them. Oh sure, broken bones, stitches, stuff like that they are good, but nothing I am willing to put my life in their hands with.

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Originally Posted by Justin Case

The Government competing with the private sector LOL,,,

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Yeah...that would be competition.....if the private sector was allowed to use force to take whatever they want.

Jeez, I step away for an hour and you guys go crazy.

A recent court decision found that it is unconstitutional for the government to force the population to take health care insurance. I'm sure this one will be before the Supreme Court.

http://www.mnmed.org/News/NewsFullSt...3/Default.aspx

Justin - Your example of the VA is really a good one and one I hadn't considered. But you are correct. Dad was treated splendidly by the VA. Top notch.

Frankly, I don't have a real problem with government funded health care. Some would say it's part of the basic requirement of any government. The early Greeks said government served only to improve the lives of its citizens and there is some reasoning in that approach. What I am against is the timing. With a $13T debt I don't think we can afford much more expense.

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Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit

Yeah...that would be competition.....if the private sector was allowed to use force to take whatever they want.

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They already are,, in the form of people having no other option,, as long as the medical powers that be stick together, and they will,, they will continue to charge these overinflated prices,, I would rather be taxed a little more and have basic health insurance guaranteed than have none,,

:nurse::nurse:

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Originally Posted by Pocomoonskyeyes3

Yep, I'm a Vet. Who steers clear of the VA. I feel just as safe if I visit some voodoo woman or some unlicensed doctor. I have heard too many "Horror stories" of VA hospitals. Thanks but no thanks.

There are some good Doctors that work for the Gov't....usually at places like Walter Reed or the equivalent. Most of the Doc's around here have similar stories said about them.

You are about as good not seeing them as you are seeing them. Oh sure, broken bones, stitches, stuff like that they are good, but nothing I am willing to put my life in their hands with.

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Like I said, they took great care of my dad ,, and he was terminally ill,

You are discounting the need to offset the cost associated with those patients that don't have insurance. A hospital can not refuse to treat a patient. If the patient has no insurance then they eat the cost. They make that up by overcharging those than can pay and those that have insurance. Even then they may have to eat some of the cost because insurance only pays reasonable and customary and/or they are contracted to provide services at a set cost. Very precarious financial balancing act for hospitals. Particularly those that service rural areas. That's why many don't survive.

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Originally Posted by Rick;267487[B

]You are discounting the need to offset the cost associated with those patients that don't have insurance.[/B] A hospital can not refuse to treat a patient. If the patient has no insurance then they eat the cost. They make that up by overcharging those than can pay and those that have insurance. Even then they may have to eat some of the cost because insurance only pays reasonable and customary and/or they are contracted to provide services at a set cost. Very precarious financial balancing act for hospitals. Particularly those that service rural areas. That's why many don't survive.

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Yes, and thats the problem, if there was universal healthcare for everybody,, the hospitals would always get paid,, They would not have to "eat" anything,,

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Originally Posted by Justin Case

You seem to think I have never paid taxes before,, trust me I have and will again,,

It would bring the cost down,, If the government is controlling it the cost would come down,, as it is, the hospitals charge whatever they want to charge,, hence 400 dollar aspirins....

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Will it be like insurance oversight, that keeps insurance companies from bending people over?
-Sam

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Originally Posted by Justin Case

Yes, and thats the problem, if there was universal healthcare for everybody,, the hospitals would always get paid,, They would not have to "eat" anything,,

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You just don't get it, do you? The money has to come from somewhere!

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Originally Posted by Justin Case

They already are,, in the form of people having no other option,, as long as the medical powers that be stick together, and they will,, they will continue to charge these overinflated prices,, I would rather be taxed a little more and have basic health insurance guaranteed than have none,,

:nurse::nurse:

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The only thing limiting your options, are the laws that are made up, by the very people you want to give control to. Think about that.

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Originally Posted by Pocomoonskyeyes3

Yep, I'm a Vet. Who steers clear of the VA. I feel just as safe if I visit some voodoo woman or some unlicensed doctor. I have heard too many "Horror stories" of VA hospitals. Thanks but no thanks.

There are some good Doctors that work for the Gov't....usually at places like Walter Reed or the equivalent. Most of the Doc's around here have similar stories said about them.

You are about as good not seeing them as you are seeing them. Oh sure, broken bones, stitches, stuff like that they are good, but nothing I am willing to put my life in their hands with.

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VA dentist, "You're a Marine, we can pull that tooth with out any shots. Suck it up butter cup." That was my last visit.
-Sam

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Originally Posted by Justin Case

Yes, and thats the problem, if there was universal healthcare for everybody,, the hospitals would always get paid,, They would not have to "eat" anything,,

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So what do the hospitals do, when they are expected to give $1.5 million in medical care, and Uncle Sam says that they are only going to pay them $1 million???

BTW, Uncle Sam took $3 million in taxes to cover this, but after the "red tape" there was only $1 million left to pay the hospital.

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Originally Posted by Rick

You are discounting the need to offset the cost associated with those patients that don't have insurance. A hospital can not refuse to treat a patient. If the patient has no insurance then they eat the cost. They make that up by overcharging those than can pay and those that have insurance. Even then they may have to eat some of the cost because insurance only pays reasonable and customary and/or they are contracted to provide services at a set cost. Very precarious financial balancing act for hospitals. Particularly those that service rural areas. That's why many don't survive.

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Yes and why they employ substandard Doctors too. Like the one who we told(verbally) that our son was allergic to sulfur meds, It was in his charts, AND it was on his color coded bracelet he was wearing. So he prescribes the medicine, we get to the pharmacy, tell the pharmacist that our son is allergic to sulfur meds, the Pharmacist informs us that it is a SULFUR BASED Medicine!!! The Pharmacist then calls the Doctor and argues with him for an hour!! The Doctor REFUSES To change the Medicine!! The Pharmacist (Who also has the record of his allergies, then Changes it to a different based medicine and tosses the prescription in his tray. And starts to fill out a report on WHY he had to disregard the Doctors prescription.
We Contact the Hospital, They tell us that they have to talk to the Doctor and get back with us. a full month later we call them to find out what happened.... nothing yet. Call back yet again in 2 weeks and find out that all they did was tell the Doctor he had to be more careful. Talking to other people in the community we find that this particular Doctor has done things of a similar nature DOZENS of times!! Had we followed the doctors advise without questioning the pharmacist(which we almost didn't do...after all the info was on the bracelet, in his charts, and we had told him ourselves) we would have had a funeral to attend to. This is way to common.

Can't speak to either situation. I know I would have filed a complaint with 1. The VA against the dentist and 2. The state license agency in your case, Poco. Neither are the norm nor should they be expected. Are there bad physicians? Yeah. Just like there are bad __________ fill in the blank. You know what they call the guy that graduated last in his medical class? Doctor.

where I used to live, there was a local doctor that earned the nick name "Dr Death" ,,, seriously,,,,

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Originally Posted by Rick

Can't speak to either situation. I know I would have filed a complaint with 1. The VA against the dentist and 2. The state license agency in your case, Poco. Neither are the norm nor should they be expected. Are there bad physicians? Yeah. Just like there are bad __________ fill in the blank. You know what they call the guy that graduated last in his medical class? Doctor.

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Well the "Patient Care Advocate" said there was nothing else we could do. So we didn't. I may be just a cynical old fart, but I am finding more and more that the people we are supposed to trust (Doctors, politicians, and such)Do NOT deserve to be trusted at all. Funny thing is that the Vets here (for the most part) are more trustworthy around here than any Doctor in town. (with the exception of the doctor that delivered our first son, but he left Town for a better practice.) Just seems that wherever we go there are "Bad____ (just name a profession). it seems that it is more common than uncommon nowadays.

Like when I was fired from my last job, a clear cut case of discrimination (based on the companies own policies), but no Lawyer would even return my calls or call me from my visits to their offices. (I was fired for having my pocketknife out at work, but a guy who stuck a pair of scissors to another workers throat and threatened to kill him still works there 2 years after it happened) All I wanted was my job back.( Even the Labor board said it was too severe a punishment when I appealed them denying my unemployment. They even made what I did sound worse in their denial of unemployment than what actually happened.) Funny thing though they can't keep anyone on the line I worked on... they say it's too hard of a job to do. Yet I worked it for years and never complained once. I LOVE the Irony there.

I really can understand why there are Modern day Hermits. If I didn't have young kids I would probably be one too.

IMO, basic & preventive national healthcare should be on par with national defense/LE, infrastructure, and education. That's it. No more, no less.
If you want more than basic, you'll have to pay for it out of your own pocket the way you do when you choose to send your kid to private school. If you choose to purposely compromise your health by doing stuff universally accepted as harmful, then you'll have to pay for it, again, out of your own pocket. Actions have consequences, good and bad. You get to choose what's right for you. Not I, not the government.

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Originally Posted by huntermj

End of life planning, I hope i go into a bridge abutment at 110 miles per hour. at 92 years old.

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Larry: My grandma died.

Jeff: I'm sorry to hear that. How'd she die?

Larry: She was 94! She died in bike wreck at Bike Week.

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Originally Posted by BENESSE

IMO, basic & preventive national healthcare should be on par with national defense/LE, infrastructure, and education. That's it. No more, no less.
If you want more than basic, you'll have to pay for it out of your own pocket the way you do when you choose to send your kid to private school. If you choose to purposely compromise your health by doing stuff universally accepted as harmful, then you'll have to pay for it, again, out of your own pocket. Actions have consequences, good and bad. You get to choose what's right for you. Not I, not the government.

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well said ! :thumbup::clap:

That is an interesting take, B. I'll have to think about that one. I don't know about the basic defense thingie, though.

Soldier: "Okay, you have our basic policy. We can protect you from all hand guns and light automatic weapons. If you want protection from APGs and IEDs then you'll have to take out our silver policy. We also cover heavy automatic weapons, too. Our gold policy covers up to and including artillery. We do throw in inbound conventional missile coverage at no extra charge however. If you really want to be covered then I suggest our platinum policy. It covers everything in the silver and gold package plus EMP, biological, gas, and direct nuclear strike. Now think about it. How much is your family worth?"

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Originally Posted by BENESSE

IMO, basic & preventive national healthcare should be on par with national defense/LE, infrastructure, and education. That's it. No more, no less.
If you want more than basic, you'll have to pay for it out of your own pocket the way you do when you choose to send your kid to private school. If you choose to purposely compromise your health by doing stuff universally accepted as harmful, then you'll have to pay for it, again, out of your own pocket. Actions have consequences, good and bad. You get to choose what's right for you. Not I, not the government.

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The joys of freedom is the ability to choose. Sometimes we do not choose wisely, but anything less is akin to servitude.

Still on the pain meds ain't ya?

I was only equating basic health care to basic education. Defense/LE is in a category of it's own.
And while we're on national defense, everyone gets into a peace time draft.

Hey! Just havin' a little fun. I do like your idea of basic/preventative care, however. I think there is some genuine merit in that.

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Originally Posted by Rick

Still on the pain meds ain't ya?

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Yeah....he forgot to put it into words that we know! LOL:pinch:

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Originally Posted by BENESSE

I was only equating basic health care to basic education. Defense/LE is in a category of it's own.
And while we're on national defense, everyone gets into a peace time draft.

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What about basic shelter....basic food......basic transportation....basic clothing.....

I know you're being a smart a$$ 2D so I'm not gonna take the bait. What I said above is "no more, no less".

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Originally Posted by Justin Case

Yet people without healthcare die here of preventable causes,,

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Only if they choose too. Why does every socialist have this "die on the steps of the hospital" mythology.

By law no hospital can deprive a person of needed services. At least not in my state.

My wife worked for a very large nonprofit, charity hospital that was the sole provider of med-care in our region. No one was turned away.

They were/are on the top 20 hospitals of the nation list and are one of the 5 best places in the state/region to work.

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