I use Photbucket as well. I've tried a few of the on-line photo storage sites and that is the one I prefer.
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I use Photbucket as well. I've tried a few of the on-line photo storage sites and that is the one I prefer.
That's how you guys do the pictorials?
The bucking solution was slightly frozen over this morning, I'm thinking of bringing it indoors at night. Would that be a good idea? It has a tight fitting lid.
Yep. If you take a look at one of the pictorials and hit the quote button then you will be able to see what the img code thing looks like. From Photobucket it's just a copy and past of the code, but that'll show you what it looks like in a post before the submit button is hit.Quote:
Originally Posted by rwc1969
OK, I thought you guys were uploading the photos here and adding the tag pointing to them here, not photobucket. LOL! Thanks!
I would bring it in the garage at least, but make sure the lid is on good! It won't hurt anything for it to freeze, but it'll take forever to buck
Thanks YCC, I brought it in and the hair is maybe slipping just slightly more. 3 days and counting...
Like I say, I've had large bucks take 5 days to buck sufficiently to scrape into buckskin. It would have had to go longer to "wipe clean" to keep the grain on.
This is an endeavor that will teach you a lot about yourself. patience, mettle, mental, physical, resourcefulness... at least it has been for me. I'm sure you'll find it just as rewarding as I do.
Is this the right stuff? The pic shows the ingredients. It's called fast acting lime by Pennington.
I looked everywhere around and could not find hydrated lime or pickling lime. I even went online to look at local Lowe's and Home Depot and can't find it. It's not available locally that I can find.
If this is the right stuff then I may need to whip up another batch and tranfer the hide as removing it to flip and stir has reduced the amount of water in the bucket.
I had this same problem with growing mushrooms and ended up using pelletized gypsum.
RWC, Hydrated Lime is also Calcium Hydroxide if that helps. You can try one of these guys.
http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CEwQ8wIwBA#
Calcium Carbonate 95.5%
The grocery store calls it "slaked lime" or "hydrated lime" and it comes in a plastic container like this: http://store.mrswagesstore.com/mrswagpiclim.html
In fact, that's the exact kind I use. around $3 a pound and that's usually enough to do 2 hides.
That's the ticket! I bet it was way cheaper than what I buy at the grocers.
Actually, this is exactly what the can in my hand right now looks like.
http://www.yardlover.com/mrs-wages-pickling-lime-1-lb
YCC, are you sure it says Calcium Carbonate? They are very closely related but Hydrated Lime and Calcium Carbonate are not the same. Hydrated Lime is what happens when you add water to Calcium Oxide. Hence the name Calcium Hydroxide.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_hydroxide
Thanks Rick.
So, ycc are you saying the stuff I have should work?
None of the stores here have pickling lime because they say it's out of season. In fact, walwart was the only one who said they even stocked it in season.
I got the above stuff at Lowe's, 7 bucks for 6 lbs. They also had a 25 or so lb. bag for like 15 bucks, but I didn't think I'd need that much and am short on cash as it is. Nobody here I've talked to has even heard of hydrated lime and they always point me to the stuff I bought or pelletized gypsum.
Interestingly enough I was told sheetrock or drywall is compressed calcium carbonate. I can't verify that though.
I believe that gypsum is calcium sulfate.
Hydrated Lime is a fine powder that will dissolve easily in water, other than that it is pretty much the same as garden lime. It can usually be found at Home Depot or Lowes in the masonry section, because it is mainly used as an additive to concrete. I bought some at Home Depot in Benton Harbor, MI last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by rwc1969
If what YCC is using works then by all means use it. He knows FAR FAR more about this stuff than I do. I'm just questioning the ingredients based on the common name.
There are different, but similar chemicals that produce the desired effect and different storebought products that contain those chemicals. This is where I'm somewhat confused.
RunsWithDeer, thanks, our local HomeDepot supposedly doesn't stock hydrated lime, which is odd considering it's intended use and the fact that they are a super warehouse of hardware and construction supplies.
I am just a bit impatient and anxious not knowing what to expect or when to expect it and was wondering if the stuff I used was perhaps not correct.
From what I understand hydrated lime is the least expensive option for bucking hides. Other than perhaps using wood ash if the wood and fuel is free.
What you have should work just fine. The only difference is 4.5% of "other stuff" where what I use sometimes is 100%.
As long as you mixed it strong enough for some to settle to the bottom it's perfect. It will only get so strong, not sure exactly what pH.
I think the main thing slowing you down is the temperature. When it's cold it takes a while. When it's hot weather (above 70) they go really fast, almost faster than you really want it to. There's a sweet spot somewhere around 65 degrees where a small hide might only take a day to buck, and a large one might take 3 days.
It's been my experience that slower is better when making buckskin as the "bond" between the two layers of skin (Dermis and fiber network) is weakened and makes scraping really easy. Of course yours isn't going to be buckskin, but rather a grain leather, and might require a little longer to slip the hair easily.
Patience my friend.
*Wood ash lye was used in times past as an ingredient in making "cinder blocks" and mortar mixes. It is the reason concrete has a warning that it "may cause burns. Wear gloves"*
*The active ingredient in Tums antacid tabs is Calcium Carbonate!*
Don't worry. All things in good time. The lime you are using is correct.
The description from your link (both links) say calcium hydroxide, YCC. Or am I looking at something wrong here?Quote:
Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime Gets the Job Done
For pickling cucumbers the old-fashioned way for extra crispness and flavor! Makes Cucumber Lime Pickles (recipe on each bag), Green Tomato Pickles, Watermelon Rinds and Citron Pickles. Food grade calcium hydroxide with no additives or preservatives.
Batch, I think the 95.5% Calcium Carbonate reference was to the picture RWC posted. I was a little confused at the start as well.
YCC, I'm really amazed at the amount of knowledge you have in this process. Not just to know how to do it but why doing X works. I know your thirst for knowledge runs into the why's and not just the hows but your research and tenacity to learn everything related to the process is genuinely impressive.
Thanks Rick!
Sorry for the confusion, I was referring to RWC's pic. The common names and chemical names can be a little daunting.
Hydrated lime is Calcium Hydroxide. Slaked Lime I believe is Calcium Carbonate, although this link would have one believe they are the same thing> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_hydroxide
CaCO3 comes from burned shells> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_carbonate
Either way, we are working with the loose hydrogen bonds in the skin (read mucus). The extra oxygen atom (CaCO3) will bind with the hydrogen in the skin when using calcium carbonate (leaving you with Calcium oxide and carbon dioxide, and *snot*). When using Calcium Hydroxide, you end up with calcium oxide and water because you have an OH- (meaning it needs one more H to be stable so it robs one from the skin).
Both do the same thing and are interchangeable in my opinion. Sorry for the confusion!!
It's definitely interesting how the different chemicals work. Thanks for the clarification YCC.
Since I added 3 lbs. to 2 gallons of water I'd say the mix is strong as it can be, LOL. I thought the bag I bought was 3 lbs., turns out it's 6. I was so busy reading the ingredients and trying to get an egg to float I didn't even bother to read the weight on the package until yesterday.
Anyway, like I said before the water was getting low so I added another gallon and it's still thick as pea soup, lots of extra CaCO3. But, now I can swish it around better and the skin isn't so cramped.
I'm bringing it in at night. The temps are dropping now, it's below freezing as I type and getting colder. We got our first flurries of snow today. The mix smells a bit like raw meat, but not stinky.
the smell you describe is pretty accurate.. kinda like raw deer, but not rotten. I'd say you're still good. Check it tomorrow and you can probably wipe a lot of the hair off. When you get enough off it will sink instead of floating. Deer hair is hollow and will float.
I usually mix about 1/2 a pound to 4 gallons, so yeah, it's plenty strong LOL!
Have you noticed a yellowish "scum" on top of the water? That's the *snot* coming out!
It should be getting pretty close by now, even for a big one.. of course, it rarely gets below freezing here so it could take as much as (so i've read) 7-10 days (but I think that's a little far..)
when you start dehairing.. wear rubber gloves, rubber boots, and an apron.. that stuff will ruin your clothes!
You could always borrow Rick's thong.:innocent:
I don't think so.
Sent it out to the cleaners huh?
I'll share a lot but not my thong. That would fall into the Euwwww! catagory.
I haven't noticed the yellow scum, but when you say rub off you mean it will rub right off without force?
As it is i can pull hair out, but it takes a little effort and some hairs just break off.
it will take a little bit of force, but not a lot.. like wiping your hand across it will make a big mess. it might still take a dull tool to get some of the hairs out; some of them can be stubborn.
I really wish I could give specifics on this stuff but a lot of it is guesswork, especially if you don't have fancy bark-o-meters, and pH testers, and a gizmogeewhizbang. It's really organic (not sure if that's the right word) and mostly 'measured' by feel.
I would think that today would be the day (day 5, right?), and would take it out and give it a test scrape/wipe. If you have to use a lot of effort to get the hair off, put it back in the buck and try again tomorrow. You'd really have to just 'set it and forget it' to ruin it in the buck.
As long as the buck strength is maintained and temps kept relatively low, it should not rot. I'm sure your buck is strong enough (overkill!), so it's mostly just a waiting game.
the scum kinda resembles chicken broth.. thin and a little greasy-looking. It might not be noticable, but I usually see it when my hides are pretty close to being bucked. Just one of the things I observed that I don't recall anyone else mentioning.
Tomorrow will be day 7. I left her indoors all day today so she could warm up good, it's below freezing outside. I pulled some hair near the neck and was able to easily clear a 2" patch to bare skin/ epidermis?. So, I think tomorrow she'll be going back on the pvc to get the hair off. WooHoo!
Just to make sure. I carefully remove the hair and epidermis leaving the grain on, then flip it, put a towel under it for cushioning the grain, and carefully remove the membrane from the flesh side and then into the creek, right?
Is it easy to distinguish the epidermis from the grain on the hair side? I don't want to bust the grain.
It will take a pretty concerted effort, or a really sharp tool to bust the grain. a light pressure will be sufficient, tho, at this stage, to remove the hair. The epidermis is basically just dead skin and often just looks like dirt under the hair. The grain will be slick and shiny. Right now, it might be a little yellow or greenish from the bucking, but rinsing will produce a very nice white. Hair and epidermis will come off pretty much at the same time.
Towel on your beam, flip it, and get the membrane off. You are more likely to bust the grain at this point than the previous. The membrane can be frustrating to get off sometimes as it's harder to tell where it ends and the fiber network begins. You don't have to get it all off.. this stuff is soft anyway. the disadvantage of leaving it on, the inside of your leather will look tatty. Get the bulk off, and let the rest ride.
Be careful tho about your pressure.. usually when I tear the grain it's when membraning, not dehairing! I think you'll get the feel for it pretty quick and it shouldn't be a problem.
rinse in the creek, squeegie excess water out, and freeze it till you get your bark / tea / stuff ready.
It really is that easy!
interesting info guys, I'm curious could a fella use commercial lye to buck hides? Most hardware's have drain cleaner that is 100 percent lye.
Ok, I'm using a smoothed out Box elder branch as a dowel to remove the hair. It started off good and I could swipe off big long sections down to the hide, nice and clean and free of hair with little effort. Then I noticed in spots, especially near the edge and seemingly more so on the white hair that it would break off near the skin and leave stubbys in the skin not removing all the hair. It seemed it was taking more and more pressure to remove it in these spots and it wouldn't come clean off, little stubbies left.
So, I put it back in the lime after getting about halfway thru de-hairing. Is it normal for these little stubs to remain? They don't rub out without greater effort than I think is required. Most won't rub out period.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...higan/Hair.jpg
Also, is it better to remove the hair with the direction it lays or against the direction it lays?
I had the above problem either way.
I try to go with the grain of the hair, or across it, but never against it (except at the very top of the neck).
Do you have a paint scraper thingy? you can hold it at a right angle and gengly remove the stubbies usually.
Looks like you got it right to the grain. Knew right where to stop! Good job
I think you did the right thing by giving it another day in the buck. Tomorrow should be prime and I'd expect the stubbies to come on out. usually the white slips first, then the brown hair, but I find each skin to be a little different. The back side of a knife (dull edge) and a little bit more pressure should get them out, or any dull flat tool.
RandyT. Commercial lye (KOH) can be used, but I don't recommend it because of the dangers involved in handling it. Also the pH needs to be correct.. somewhere around 12.9 - 13.0. If it's too strong, the commercial lye can eat away at the skin. I have not used commercial lye, mostly because of my oafish ways lol. I don't want that stuff gettin on my pretty face (har har har). If you do use KOH, always add the crystals to the water, never water to crystals. 4 oz. per 10 gallons of water, or 2 oz. per 5 gallons, the latter is for one or two hides.
Thanks YCC, I was going to use a dull blade but was afraid I'd bust the grain, will get back to it tomorrow.
I've not used it either. I try to scrounge up what ever I can from nature if and when possible. But I figured it may be a option for folks that don't have the scrounging opportunities that some of us have.Quote:
Originally Posted by your_comforting_company
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...0211092142.jpg
This is a pic of me removing the grain. You'll notice I'm putting a lot of effort down and forward. Hopefully you can see that difference in the layers. Be careful on the thinner areas, around the rump and belly as they usually grain pretty easy. The hair should fall right out today, and if not, I'd probably opt to struggle through it, rather than buck any longer. 8 days seems to me an aweful long time to buck but I work in much warmer (relatively of course) weather. Rarely gets below freezing here.
How are your bones and other projects going? I didn't mean for this to become a focus on the skin alone (apologies!!). great job with the tallow btw!
If anyone does use commercial lye, (NOT Drano) make sure it's 100%, and ALWAYS wear gloves, apron, and eye protection. I do use this stuff to make lye soap and it's pretty scary because I'm so clumsy!