Do you use firebricks or anything inside to keep from burning out the barrel?
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Do you use firebricks or anything inside to keep from burning out the barrel?
No I don't, but if you figure to have that barrel stove a long time they make some that are much thicker. You can tell them by the seem at top of barrel. The seam is about a half inch thick. I have never had one of those barrels burn out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
that's a nifty stove, have ya ever installed a baffle inside the stove?
No. I have used the double barrel stack robbers but when I was disappointed in the heat production I installed a second door in top barrel and had a great oven/smoker.Quote:
Originally Posted by randyt
i've often wondered how well those double kits worked, don't sound like it's to good. great smoker though.
i have heard that a baffle installed helps a lot with efficiency.
i have a old oil barrel that i'm planning on making into a stove. i'd like to make a upright so it's more like a potbelly stove. this barrel is a little different than most, on the top it's stamped standard oil and marked 56 gallons, there's no ribs. the shape is just like a oak whiskey barrel except steel. that and the darn thing is galvanized, i'll just burn it off before using inside.
That's cool. I'm looking into something cheap and contained to use wood to boil down sap next spring. We are not allowed open fires, but an outside stove would be acceptable.
i was planning on tapping trees this spring but it got away from me and before i knew i wasn't ready. i'll be ready next year. i plan on using a 55 gallon drum for a sap boiling stove. i'm gonna lay the barrel on its side kinda dug into the ground a bit. i'll cut a door in one end, more or less just a opening, probably won't have a door.then on top which is really the side i'm gonna cut the side off so my sap tray will lay on top of the side. if my sap tray is 16 " wide i'll measure up on the side so when i cut it it'll be narrower than the sap tray. this will also put the sap tray in direct contact with the fire. i'm not gonna cut the entire side off. i'll leave 10 inches or so intact for a stove pipe. hope i explained it right. around here i can buy a barrel for 5 to 10 dollars so i wont have much in the cooker. i have a partial sheet of ss that i will fold up into a boiling tray. now i just need to get after it so i'll have it ready for next year.
AS, cool stove.
Barrel stoves were a "must have" for 70's- 80's homesteaders.
I think it was a matter of pride, ya know, like, "I did this stove for $30 bucks!"
I built one and used it briefly, then sold it when I found a Box stove for the garage/shop.
I found that they burned a lot of fuel, was either very hot and cooled down fast, tough to control.
Vent damper in the pipe works pretty well, as well as a draft adjustment on the front.
I see that in the pic. this must be a different kit, (more expensive?) as it does have draft control and clean out door. Early ones didn't have either.
A layer of sand in the bottom helps with burn/rust out.
An iron grate added also helps lift up the wood and help draft as well. ( I added one to my box stove, have burned down two in about 20 years)
Seems that if you don't use the stove for a while, and don't have the ash cleaned out it, draws moisture and will rust out sides and bottom after it has been heated and re-heated.
Have seen a couple that had a flat plate, cut in and welded on the top, so as to be used for a cooking surface.
The maple syrup cookers some were also built out of a 200gal oil tank laid on it's side.
As far as a viable stove, they still are very useful and good alternative to a $1500+ stove, and well worth the money.
If the drum does burn out the fixtures are still re usable on several more drums.
Agreed, they are not efficient compared to air tights but like you said they don't cost 1500 dollars either. Another advantage to them is when I have been ready to upgrade I have never had any problem selling them for 200 dollars. 4 times what I have into them compared to getting much less than what I paid for better stoves when I sold them. Which brings me to another point. I adhere to the economic principals of "The Richest Man in Babylon". It is about accumulating wealth. As far as I'm concerned it is the path to economic success for the homesteader.
Well, it does beat the alternative of not being able to afford anything.
yea i can see that afford issue. buy a airtite and not being able to buy any thing else. but with a barrel stove there's money left over for a chainsaw, a mosin nagant, a case of ammo, etc. i'd stick with the barrel stove.:)
Ah, yes but never give up an opportunity to up grade, and make a little cash at the same time.
Then yiu can have all that stuff, and the $1500 stove as well.
SETTING BLOCK WITHOUT MORTAR
The strength of block walls is in the bond beams (Cores filled with concrete and steel) not so much the block or mortar joints. I decided to set these block without mortar because I was going to fill each core for strength that bind each block in place and seal the wall with concrete to waterproof it anyway but method is simple enough for those without previous experience.
Corner blocks are set in place and square of building is checked measuring cross corner.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg346/akmofo/058.jpg
As walls go up you will need to check with level to keep walls straight.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg346/akmofo/056.jpg
These small pieces of wood hold string line that is stretched from corner to corner to use as a guide to set blocks. Any place that sells block or concrete have them.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg346/akmofo/060.jpg
Using string line as guide set block close to it but not touching, that will push string line out making wall bow out when block is set to it. Also note gap between blocks. If blocks are set tight the corners will not work out and it is needed for a full 16 inch measurement the same as if using mortar.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg346/akmofo/061.jpg
I use a small hammer to knock off imperfections in block so it sets squarely in place.
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Wall may begin to get wobbly depending on height of wall in which case I just fill some of the cores with concrete that bind the block together. Note that I am not filling the cores with the steel. I wait to pour them all at once prevent cold joints in reinforced bond beams.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg346/akmofo/121.jpg
The walls are then sealed with just a mixture of sand and cement for waterproofing. Less porous than block.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/g...o/IMG_0615.jpg
This project is going to be my root cellar with a sunken solar green house above it. It will be 12 feet in the ground when finished. I you live in area that requires building codes there are surface bonding additives that are simply strands of fiberglass you mix with sand and cement to spread outside wall. This binds loose block since foundation codes only call for a bond beam every 2’ 6”. Filling each core I did not need it.
very interesting. keep it coming.
What's the difference cost vs strength between the method you used and a poured concrete wall? It appears you poured the slab and footers. I would think setting forms vs. laying block would be a wash time wise. I don't think I've ever seen blocks set dry like that. I can't say I've seen bond seams used either.
Poured walls would be stonger at equal width and equal amounts of steel. The real question is block set with steel on 2 foot centers strong enough? Yes, I built my house next to it using conventional methods, mortar and codes, this is much stronger because I am going 4 feet deeper in the ground and I am using the wall as a heat sink. I have pictures of that but this post is about keeping it simple. Cost has to many variables depending on how much you do yourself? Are you making your own block? How much rock are you putting in forms? What you are missing is the manpower and equipment requirements. Note the only tools are a small mixer and a string line and for manpower just one old man with a bad back. This is a method for homesteaders that lack experience, manpower and equipment. Not filling cores with reinforcement is why places like Haiti are devistated by earth quakes. Most cores are filled at 2' 6" in the US. There are products like Q-bond which is for dry stacking and surface bonding block if you have the extra money and dealing with codes. This is a legitimate building method and the simplest one I have used.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Oh, I'm not questioning your methods. I'm just interested in how they compare. You said earlier you have spent time working concrete so I figured you would know. Whether the mortar method is used here because of code or more out of tradition I can't tell you but I've never seen the method you used so I learned something really good today and I thank you for that. I'm just trying to understand.
AS - Is your re bar embedded in the foundation?
2 foot uprights are stabbed into footing while it is wet and then after block is set the steel for block is set in place. Rebar usually has 18 inch overlap to join it.Quote:
Originally Posted by crashdive123
It's just another way. Heres the store bought stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
http://www.sakrete.com/products/prod...eBondingCement
Mortar is better for larger jobs because it can stack higher before grouting.
Since I last posted on this thread several people have asked about sawmills to develop their land and make a few bucks on the side. The way some sawmills advertise you get the idea that all you need is their mill and you can take it right to the tree, saw it up and drive home with it all stacked on the trailer. There was a time I fell for that myself but it’s a bit more complicated than that and I could write a book on the subject explaining it. Instead I will just explain how I am setting up my next operation based on all I have learned over the years.
First start small. If you can overcome problems like availability of logs, regulations even a small setup will make enough money to reinvest and grow operation. If you can’t you are not out near as much money.
Second sawmills need support equipment and tools. The good news is the tools used to support a sawmill are most of what you need to get started not a sawmill costing 5000 dollars or more. What I have will fit in the trunk of my car and very productive.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/g...o/IMG_1564.jpg
I am partial to Stihl saws. Stihl makes two grades of saws and for humping through the woods felling trees I chose to use the professional grade 260. It is comparable to the Farmboss and while the motor is smaller it turns 1000 rpm faster and has lighter parts and a compression release. It also costs 200 dollars more.
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Using Hayden Lumber Maker bolted to a chainsaw bar is a very fast way to square a log. For this I use the Farmboss 290 Stihl. These are actually what Stihl calls a home owners model but they have been the work horse of my operations. A great value with good power and they last forever just not as light and burn a bit more fuel than pro models. Chainsaw mills have a greater capacity to cut long or large diameter logs than most sawmills and you will need these chainsaw mills any way to cut large logs down to a size your sawmill can handle.
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Once the log is squared I use an Alaskan Mill to re-saw into lumber. While chainsaw mills cut slower set up time is faster and the Alaska mill needs no set up at all to start cutting lumber from cant. I power this mill with another of Stihls professional grade saws, the 220 E. This is an electric saw but not like any you have used before. I has power like the two gas saws and costs more than either of them. The advantages are it is quieter, does not need to be started, fueled in the middle of a cut and can be used indoors in the winter keeping production going all year. When I say these are comparable it is in more ways then just power. They all have 20 inch bars and 3/8 chain and can be used interchangeably in case of mechanical failure. If a sawmill breaks down production stops. The odds of 3 Stihls breaking down at the same time impossible.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/g...o/IMG_1556.jpg
For trimming ends I will use a Prazi beam saw that converts worm drive saw. Sometimes I have used these to trim cant to a particular size rather than re-set Alaskan Mill.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/g...o/IMG_1558.jpg
Chain maintenance is a big part of the job. Buying chain in bulk rolls will save money but you need a break and mend tool. I sharpen chains constantly and usually I just give it a few passes with a file but occasionally you should use this type of file guide that has depth setting to keep chain uniform otherwise some teeth will wear faster than other. Always keep your chains properly tensioned and bar tool handy. Circular saws are the quickest to sharpen but blades are domed and to hammer them is a special skill few people have. Band saw blades stretch and overheat just like a chain, dull faster when they cut into bark and will bend when they hit a knot leaving waves in the lumber. They have other problems that I won’t get into just know they don’t advertise their faults.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/g...o/IMG_1562.jpg
I have a chainsaw powered capstan winch for bring logs out of the woods. Pulleys and choke chains all fit in this tool bag. I will be getting another Farmboss to leave connected to it.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/g...o/IMG_1560.jpg
Poly rope that does not stretch is need for winch. I use 3/8 leaded line left over from my long lining days rated to 2500 pounds. I use 250 feet to reach logs. A capstan can handle any length and this stuff comes in 600 foot rolls but more than this is hard to handle and becomes a tangled mess.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/g...o/IMG_1561.jpg
More misc. tools include an extra Hayden lumber maker for temporary set ups, what looks like a come-along is another rope winch, a short cant hook (get a large one and you’ll see why I use a small one), pipe with a sharp point to the side is a hookeroon to move and lift logs without bending over and the ramps will roll logs over obstacle or onto a trailer.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/g...o/IMG_1557.jpg
I find it easier to build with shorter lumber than deal with large logs and the small end of log determines size of lumber and the longer it is the more it tapers down in size wasting wood. For now I will just use my small trailer and yard tractor to move logs from wood lot. I have hauled logs up 16 feet in length in the center of this trailer and I can also haul it with my compact car and do tree removal for friends and I keep the wood. Firewood is another by product you will have doing this too.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/g...o/IMG_1124.jpg
If you purchase a sawmill you’ll wind up getting this stuff but if you get this stuff first you may find you may not need or want to get a sawmill. If you do you will have made enough money to pay for it.
nice post AS,
loaded with great info, I've been wanting to try a chainsaw mill. I have tried the hayden style. instead of hauling the logs out do you ever cut the lumber right where the tree fell? It seems like hauling the finished product out would be more effective and the mess would be left.
I must add to that you have some great gear. I have gear similar but it's wood handled. those composite handles are tough but shoot I can't bring myself to upgrade as long as my old stuff is still working and as long as there is a half dozen cant hooks hanging in the barn
I don't know if I mentioned it before but my brother in laws and I have a 01 frick circular mill. I understand what you are saying about saw hammering. I gathered up my grandfathers hammering bench and tools the other day. Even though I helped out in his shop I'm a long ways from properly hammering a saw.
you certainly touch a soft spot talking about logging and lumbering, brings back memories. thank you
I seldom do but occasionally will depending on situation. Mosquito's are thicker in the trees than in the open where the wind helps blow them away and you are at thier mercy with both hands full. It is easier to make one trip with the end of rope winch and let the winch bring the whole log out than me making half a dozen trips where I do all the carrying. I do cut trees to log lenght I need on the to make log handling easier. There are situations that I will saw them up on the spot. One is when I am building on that spot. No need to haul them out to haul them back in and the other is when I need long lenghts from big trees. The chainsaw winch has its limits. Those limits can be increased with a reaching arch and that is another piece of support equipment I would get before sawmill. Here is a few examples where I did. Note lenght of beams.Quote:
Originally Posted by randyt
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/g...o/IMG_1230.jpg
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/g...o/IMG_1220.jpg
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Finally got around to going through this entire thread. A book's worth of info for an easy investment of just some time. Thankyou AS. Rep sent and well deserved.
Oldtrap
Excellent, excellent thread. I've seen better info here than in most books written on the subject.
Do you have grid electricity for the electric saws? If you mentioned it I missed it.
How do you mix the cement for the concrete blocks (what ratios, kind of cement, etc.)?
Thanks for the info on the cement block mold. I've done web searches to try to find info for making blocks at home and the only thing that turns up is for commercial operations.
Great thread! Thanks for posting it.
There is one thing you won’t be able to get around if you are to develop land and that is excavation work. Growing up on a homestead, working gold claims and construction I tend to take this skill for granted. It’s not rocket science but you will need someone to show you how and I suggest if anybody you know that can teach you the basics and you can get some time at the controls jump on it. I know they have schools for it but it’s not that complicated and with a little instruction and a few hours of practice you will be able to operate most equipment good enough to do the job.
I strongly recommend not buying machinery but renting it instead. You do not have enough work for it to justify the expense and renting you will always have the exact type of equipment for the job. Rental costs are completely tax deductible but only the depreciation is deductible if you buy.
When I needed to put in a driveway and dig a basement for the block building previously shown I rented an excavator for half a day at the cost of 230 dollars and a 70 dollar delivery fee.
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This job would have easily cost me 4000 dollars to have done.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/g.../holeready.jpg
This mountain of dirt was moved in a couple of hours at a cost of 300 dollars.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/g...alotofdirt.jpg
Face it, you can’t move this much dirt by any other means and I while I have had a lot of machinery in my life had I figured this out sooner I could have saved myself a ton of money.
Another good post and great advice. I've operated a few items, boring machines, backhoes and cats. I've never had any formal training on any of it and it's not that difficult to operate. A big field and a little practice should get you going without running over too much. Good post!
The first step is to set stakes in corners and set a string line to proper height. A line level is adequate for small jobs like this one. Level dirt using string line as gauge and then set outer form boards to string line.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/g...foundation.jpg
Then set inner forms using outer boards to gauge placement and use a torpedo level to adjust it to proper height. Set steel reinforcement in place tying it with bailing wire to cross ties to lift off ground. Back fill dirt around forms for added support.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/g...tobepoured.jpg
I mix my own concrete most of the time. Mixed concrete cost 150 a yard last time I had it delivered. There are 4 sacks of cement to a yard at a cost of 12 dollars each so if I you have gravel you can mix it yourself for about a third the cost. It is labor intensive so larger jobs you will need bigger mixers and for even bigger jobs a delivery is still recommended.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg346/akmofo/001.jpg
My mixer will mix one wheel barrow at a time and to prevent cold joints fill footing at alternating ends to prevent cold joints. If you start at one end and only fill in one direction the concrete may set before you get back around to it using a mixer. Also note that a temporary bridge was built to wheel over footing to fill from inside footing. Set uprights reinforcements (or anchor bolts for wood) as you go. For most foundation 2’ 6” is adequate but this will be a deep basement so I am setting these at 2 foot. Level concrete to outside form.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/g...kmofo/0022.jpg
I leave forms in place over night to set and strip forms the next day.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg346/akmofo/003.jpg
I then pour the slab using the foundation to level it using a board to scrap it level. Work the large gravel down when leveling and as it begins to set use a skreed to smooth finish. As it sets harder increase the angle of skeed.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/g...greenhouse.jpg
Great stuff AS.
Totally AWESOME Thread AS! I've learned more in the time spent reading this, than in all the times I have helped someone else do some construction project or other combined. Sadly I must spread the "Love" before I can Rep you again.....:angry::angermanagement::cursing: "Rep system"!!!!
Read post 11-Mixing concrete - It’s as simple as 1,2,3. That is 1 part cement, two parts sand, a tree parts aggregate (rock). The cement gets between the grains of sand and the sand fills the cap between the rock. As I mentioned in “Classifying Gravel”, ¾ minus has about the right mixture of sand and I just mix it 1 shovel of cement to 5 shovels of ¾ minus. Mortar is just as simple but a slight variation. It is One part cement “to” 3 parts sand for binding block or rock together or sealing outer walls. This is the basic mix and you may find time you will wish to add more cement for some applications and you will get a feel for that with experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by mosquitomountainman
I have electricity, a generator and solar power.
Finishing Concrete
The previous thread made me aware I had not covered concrete finishing for floors or any other flat surface that will be left exposed. The slower a concrete slab dries the better. Laying plastic on the ground will prevent the ground from drawing moisture from the concrete. Set steel reinforcement with some rocks under it to lift into position and cover drains. Pour concrete as dry as you can, it is harder to work with, but will dry slower preventing surface cracks. Use a board that reaches across the slab to both form boards and level with a sliding motion. With drains work from the drains to the form board in the same manner. The next step is to push the gravel below the surface. A heavy wire screen called a jitterbug is pressed into the concrete to achieve this. Small or tight areas you can use the edge of your float making short strokes an inch apart to do this. Now use the float to smooth out as best as you can. As the concrete dries use a screed to work out imperfections. Begin with the screed almost flat and increase the angle and the pressure as it dries. Start with a small project like a stepping stone to get the hang of it.
I do that for a living AS and could not have described it better. The current project is a bit different though.
Gratuitous work pic the city inspector took.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...lacement51.jpg
What are you building there?
Looks like some kind of bridge construction.
Yeah, a bridge.
Alaskas Survivalist, your pictures and descriptions are first rate. I've watched people in the Sierra of California building cabins on their own, and they could have used your advice.
When building a concrete block basement, they used a sealant called "Yellowjacket" to seal the below-ground walls to prevent water from seeping in. Also had "French drains" around the base of the walls. Do you use a sealant for your concrete walls below ground?
Thanks.
S.M.
I do use sealent. Good drainage is most important. Back filling with gravel and tapering ground away from building is also important.
this is all absolutely first rate info AS...thanks much for all the TIME & EFFORT involved in this thread...:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Off Grid Power
A little electricity will make a big difference in your life so lets start there. This basic set up is completely portable and fits in 5 gallon bucket that is also used as a stand. 1 amp 15 watt solar panel can be set anywhere in the sun or it can just be leaned against the rest of the system.
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/g...o/IMG_2018.jpg
I have cables set up so I can charge batteries on vehicles if needed. A low battery can leave you dead in the water if you have no way to charge it.
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I'm using a small battery out of a garden tractor with a cigarette lighter socket. I use a 175 watt inverter that plugs into cigarette lighter socket. This will run my radio, mechanics hand held flourescent light, DVD player, charge cell phone, charge my AA and AAA batteries, etc. In this case I'm charging an 18 volt battery that powers a cordless chainsaw.
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Living under battery power you quickly come to understand the importance of conservation and how it is easy to have a little electricity and how expensive it is to have a lot of electricity. This next system is as large as I feel is economically feasable and use conservation to live within its limitations. Susitna energy was very helpful with technical help and keeping it all compatable. I use two 6 volt batteries to make 12 volts. These are no maintenence storage batteries rated to deliver 400 watts for 20 hours each. The inverter is rated at 2000 watts with the capability to serge to 4000 watts. Note the large cables that connect it all. This reduces resistance.
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I use a Honda 2000 watt generator to charge these batteries. It's quiet and will run 15 hours on a quart of gas. It is very portable and can be easily carried where needed. It is more reliable than renewable energy and very affordable when only run a couple hours a day during peak consumption and relying on batteries to store the power until needed the rest of the time.
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The wind here is fierce but not consistent and while we have long summer days in the winter when you use more energy the days are short and usually cloudy. The generator/battery/inverter system is the most common system amoung those in Alaska that have systems that work. Still...."Every little bit helps". I am setting up a 135 watt solar panel and controller to be portable.
I would really have to conserve to operate within the power output of just this solar panel but run through batteries and inverter would be powerful enough to run most things just not as often.
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I'll be experimenting with a small hydro project and try to make a wood gas generator but when establishing a homestead is not the time for uncertain outcomes. My advice is use generator/battery/inverter then do your experimenting.