urban/suburban garden resources

there is a lot of confusion about hybrids and speciation in fruits and vegetables.

strictly speaking, hybrids are only crosses between those cultivars which are separate species, and two cultivars are only separate species if they are never capable of producing reproducrively viable offspring.

our systematic classification of species is not always sound, and many plants considered to be separate species in the literature are perfectly capable of producing viable offspring, either always, or under some circumstances.

this can be observed when breeding Brassicas.

interestingly; some of these so called hybrids can even be bred only several generations and then begin to degenerate. some can be germinated and grown for vegetables but will not themselves produce viable seed.

to further complicate matters; many fruits and vegetables are called hybrids but are really only crosses of cultivars within the same species.

for both of these reasons, not everything labled hybrid is infertile or non-viable.

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Originally Posted by canid

for both of these reasons, not everything labled hybrid is infertile or non-viable.

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Oh crap! You mean that some of those little cars, might reproduce?:innocent: LOL

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Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit

Oh crap! You mean that some of those little cars, might reproduce?:innocent: LOL

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Nope, as a general rule, they are as infertile as their drivers!:)

yup.

btw: i just planted potatoes, those chayote and two varieties of winter squash [acorn and spaghetti].

If non-hybrid:
Oranges
Lemmons
Limes
Pumpkins

I think you covered most of the ones that I would grow here in the sun-belt canid except maybe onions. They are easy to root just like potatoes. of course I have some wild ones so we mostly use those. This has turned into a good thread :D

If my camera worked, I'd take pictures of the peanut fields (hundreds of acres) that are not being used right now and are full of wild mustards and other greens. I don't think I'll worry about many greens next year when they grow all by themselves of their own free will lol. everybody around here calls em "weeds" but I think it is really disrespectful.

uhm, mustard greens.

mine are coming along, but not nearly ready, and i'm still eating the stuff i dried last year. naturalized mustards are very common around here, i don't know why i haven't gone out and picked any lately.

I'm slowly migrating my garden and plantings around the house to wild edibles and fruits. I don't know what the neighbors are going to say once the "weeds" start taking over but I'll cross that bridge then.

Funny you should mention that Rick. There are 'communities' around here that don't allow what they consider to be unsightly yards. There was something in the paper recently about one of these communities taking some woman to court for having a Kitchen Garden for a whole front yard instead of a manicured lawn. It "broke the rules of the property covenant", was unsightly, messy and a "haven for rodents" according to the trustees. It's gotten so you have to ask before you buy.

I live in a lake community. They don't care about what you grow in your yard. They don't care if you fertilize your manicured lawn with nitrates that may run off. But you can't have chickens or ducks or large livestock because it may pollute the lake water. We won't mention the beavers, ducks and Canada geese in the lake already.

When growing seeds of hybrids you are never sure what you are going to get for offspring. Chances are 50% of your crop will either not germinate (think Mule) or will be some sort of throwback to either parent of the hybrid. With hybrids you lose some of the reproductive vigor of the parents too. With F1 hybrid seed (the first generation cross) you get what they call Hybrid vigor in the first growing cycle but that fades in subsequent generations.

Store potatoes are usually treated with chemical plant hormones to keep them from sprouting in the store. Other produce is waxed or radiation treated to increase shelf life. That's one reason why Organic produce has to be kept physically separated on store shelves either bagged or in a totally separated case, so these chemical contaminants don't touch them. And some grocery stores aren't so careful about following Organic separation rules.

Other produce you can try are any of the root stocks. The trick is to get them to go to seed to grow more. Radishes, beets, possibly carrots and turnips... But...store produce is also homogenized. All virtually the same variety. All the carrots look the same because they are the same. There is no genetic diversity. You want diversity in your garden. While using store produce may seem economical, you get far more bang for your buck if you invest in Heirloom open-pollinated seeds.

We won't mention the Terminator genes they are attempting to introduce into plants so only the main crop grows but all seeds are sterile. There is also a form of potato out there that will not grow unless treated with a specific chemical that you have to buy from the manufacturer. You can grow all the potatoes you want if you buy the seed stock and the chemical activator, but the tubers themselves cannot be replanted. This, to keep them from sprouting on the shelves. So they say.

Yucca grows anywhere I think. I'm in zone 5 and it grows here. Very well.

Whups, sorry for the book ^:o

No problem. It was a good post. We have an association here as well. They are pretty straight laced about yards. I can see the good and bad and don't mind. It's one of the things that has helped keep property values high around here.

I have winter squash growing on the curb last summer and no one said anything but I sure had a lot of folks stopping to look. You'd have thought I had a velociraptor tied up out there.

I also have a lot of natives plants that aren't seen that often. Things like Fire Pinks. Native to this area but almost gone now.

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Originally Posted by LowKey

Store potatoes are usually treated with chemical plant hormones to keep them from sprouting in the store. Other produce is waxed or radiation treated to increase shelf life. That's one reason why Organic produce has to be kept physically separated on store shelves either bagged or in a totally separated case, so these chemical contaminants don't touch them. And some grocery stores aren't so careful about following Organic separation rules.

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The potatoes we grew last year were eyes off potatoes we let sprout right from the bag. sliced them up, limed them, popped them in the dirt.
They grew fine. Irish, new, and Idaho

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Store potatoes are usually treated with chemical plant hormones to keep them from sprouting in the store.

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i wish to god people would learn the difference between sometimes and usually.

e.g.

most potatoes can be easily sprouted, and will tend to sprout on their own if forgotten in a pantry. it is a relatively rare find for me, whatever the brand, to get a bag i have any trouble sprouting.

having never bought seed potatoes for reds or russets, all my seed pieces come from grocery stores.

rick: i think squash plants are quite attractive. i'm putting some in the front this season.

I live in the nanny northeast with all the yuppies and x-geners. They wouldn't buy an apple with a spot on it. I've tried the store potatoes here. If they sprout rather than rot, they sprout the weirdest looking stems you've ever seen and never really leaf out or grow properly. Certainly not healthy. I don't think it's a 'sometimes' thing here.

I'm sure other areas of the country are different. Especially if you are near the grower's market. Sorry for the inadvertent all-encompassing statement.

my potatoes always sprout out all funky if they do it in the cupboard. i get them in the soil and they are slow to emerge, but grow out just fine.

i got to go grocery shopping today, and i bought a bunch of produce. dinner was a pizza, so i collected seed from quite mature roma tomatoes, which are now in a jar with water at room temperature to ferment for a few days. i next collected seed from yellow chilies used, and the smaller cloves from a bulb of garlic.

the next time i use a tomato [probably salsa tomorrow] i will try removing the seeds, drying them part of the way, so that the gel coating can be removed easily, then simply rinsing them well. i think it is possible that they will still germinate with that procedure, but i have the jar fermenting the old fashioned way anyway.

i also bought some pasillas, and i will be test germinating seed from those as well.

on the next trip to winco, i will be picking up some of their caraway, fennel and coriander seeds, and do a test run for those as well.

my jalapenos are looking happy, as are the sugar pie pumpkin, acorn and spaghetti squash [i don't need pure seed from them, and they would make tasty enough crosses anyway]

You probably won't get as many of the dried tomato seeds to germinate as you will the fermented ones but, let's face it, that's exactly how nature does it. That's why you have those volunteers pop up. Folks under estimate the resilience of the tiny seed. Ma Nature has been tossing them on the ground in the fall and leaving them their all winter for eons. All we're trying to do is up the success rate. Good luck!!

yeah. i figured that the purpose of fermentation is to inactivate [metabolize] the germination suppressant compounds in the gel coating on the seed, so i want to find out how well mechanically removing it and then rinsing will work.

What you'll loose, I think, is the ability to tell which seeds are viable. While fermenting, some will sink and some will swim (I know you know that), and that's the part you won't be able tell. Otherwise, I think it will work just fine. I would plant three seeds together and then thin to the strongest just to ensure you have plants in each planter.

that is basically the plan. it's going to be a test run, in addition to the plenty of plants i plan to start anyway. worst case scenario is that i end up with no extra plants. as it stands i need to find room for about 24 chili plants in addition to the tomatoes.

i plan to give some away to a friend who did not get a garden together this year and has a pretty tight grocery budget too.