Oooops - my bad. Must be snow blindness.
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Oooops - my bad. Must be snow blindness.
I wouldn't be sweatin or rushin WE. i walk slower going out than I do going back home. :)
That's a normal time frame for me. I usually make it back twice as fast because i'm done enjoying the scenery and wanting to get home by then.
For much of the winter I go out duck hunting almost every weekend. We are routinely hunting in temperatures of -25*C (-13*F). I have never worn goggles and neither my eyes nor my eyelashes have ever frozen up. (I'm not sure but, I imagine this may be because of the almost total lack of humidity in the air in my area.) I don't think I even own a pair of goggles. I would think they would be powerfully uncomfortable worn over my eyeglasses. (Yes, I know trax said "no goggles or glasses," but I can't see 3 feet in front of me without my eyeglasses so; there's absolutely no chance I would have gone out of my bedroom, let alone out into the woods without them.)
Aside from that one quibble, I think trax is on the right track (no pun intended) when he describes the disorientation that might occur. I don't think I would get scared in his scenario, nor would I trudge off in any particular hurry so; I certainly wouldn't be sweating. However, many people every year find themselves lost quite literally in their own back yards when the snow begins to fly. All of a sudden the landmarks one may have used and taken for granted for a lifetime are no longer visible and without a clear track to follow back, they find they have no idea which way to turn or where to go. Hunkering down into a shelter may just be the best option in such circumstances.
So, accepting the scenario's premise that I am truly lost (at least for the moment) and cannot readily just walk back out the way I came...
If I built a shelter first, I can then use it as a windbreak to make starting my fire a little easier. I have at least two hours of usable light to get the main portion of the shelter and a fires started, after which I can do detail work by the light of the fire if necessary. I can't see that as any problem, though I can't imagine why I would be carrying wood matches as I strongly prefer a bic lighter and a firesteel. So too, my flashlight is always on my belt so; I must be having some kind of breakdown to have left it behind.
The windbreaking and insulating properties of the shelter and the radiant heat of the fire coupled with my wool clothing, ensures I have plenty of insulation to get me through the night.
I have more than enough food and water to last for numerous days, let alone one night, so again, no worries. I would throw away the tea bags however, as I can't drink the stuff. Plain water will do for me.
The compass and thermometer are, at least for the moment, essentially useless. So too the whistle, unless I have some thought that there might be others hiking in the same area that I could contact, or if I were to hear or see some sign of a rescue party that might be sent out when I don't arrive home as scheduled.
All in all, the scenario presented is not much of a "survival" situation at all. The real survival situation will occur when I arrive home the next morning to an irate wife who would have spent the night up worrying. And truthfully, I don't know how I would get through that one...
Ain't that the truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by lucznik
Here is a question for you....how many of you have ever spent the night out in these conditions- with only the clothes on your back, in a shelter you built?
I have, more than once. And, believe me...walking home is a much more attractive option to me.
If your traveling through a cedar forest- most likely not all your tracks are covered. Maybe where your standing they are, but retreat back into the trees a little, and I'd almost guarnatee you you can find some hint of your tracks. Cedars can create quite a canopy, and shelter. Also, most likely once you get into the trees, and find a hint of your tracks, you'll be out of the wind to a good degree.
All my lifes experiece is telling me, that in this situation- stopping for the night is a mistake, keeping going back towards the house- for me, is the only option in this scenario
Jason - I have not. I have spent time in the mountains and snow, but not as you describe, and not for quite some time. When I looked at the scenario, I felt that I would not have been familiar with the area (I know it said you left home, etc,). I also figured that I had about an hour of light left. My thought process was - I'm in unfamiliar territory, the driving snow would be limiting my vision, the approaching nightfall would further restrict my vision. While it is much lighter in snow with any light from above, the conditions described would not have been sufficient for me to comfortably navigate my way back. While I was quite comfortable in cold and snowy conditions, it has been about twenty years since I have had the pleasure of prolonged stays in it. Maybe I could make it back, maybe I couldn't. Two things I know for sure - while I may be uncomfortable during the night, I know I can survive in the conditions described. The second thing I know for sure that for me, building a shelter with light still available is preferable. If I had the experience that you possess, I might view it differently.
Crash,
When, I said:
"All my lifes experiece is telling me, that in this situation- stopping for the night is a mistake, keeping going back towards the house- for me, is the only option in this scenario "
I defienlty didn't mean to imply, setting up a shelter wasn't a good choice for some in this situation....I meant...for me, it wasnt an option.
However, I will add, that alot of people don't have the skills to truly build a sufficient shelter for this situatation, and burning up daylight trying to light a fire and bulid a shelter just might jeopardize them more than heading home
I completely understood what you were saying. As I said, with your experience I may well have chosen a different option. My biggest concern for the option I chose is that since in this scenario I did leave an itinerary, I might trigger a SAR event. Wouldn't want that to happen unless it was needed.
That's why I mentioned what I did about starting the fire, too, Jason, it isn't going to be easy. I've spent the night out in those conditions too and I've seen times when a person could walk past a house within a hundred yards of it in those conditions and not see it.
Here's my thinking in setting up the scenario (and I have been in similar conditions where there's enough snow blowing that it will start to freeze your eyelashes. They don't freeze shut but the water in your eyes doesn't improve your vision any, but once again I digress):
Either option has advantages and potential disadvantages. I've noticed that the people opting for walking home are all pretty seasoned outdoorsmen with experience in those conditions. How about those with less experience? If you're thinking about it on here.....you've got a better idea of what you might be confronting out there.
Less experience? I'd still walk home. The only way I'd stay put is if I were much further away, truly lost and adept at building shelter and staying warm.
The worst weather I've ever been in was -60F with the wind chill. I had just got back from 1 month in Brazil doing service and repair work. I think that's the coldest it ever got here in MI. You could pee and it woud freeze solid before it hit the ground. I'm not exaggerating! I would not want to walk 1-3 hours with the wind in my face at those temps.
My only experience camping in the proposed temps and winds is in a 4 man dome tent on the lake ice thru one day, night and following morning. The day started sunny and mild. In the afternoon it became ever more windy, cold and snowy. The wind and such was so bad that taking down the tent would have been cold and difficult. It was easier to wait out the weather. I had ice fishing gear, propane lantern, Kars "sweet and salty trail mix" and a Mexican blanket. I was real comfy and turned the lantern off before I went to bed. I caught zero fish till the next morning.
I'm not sure I would agree with that assessment. The "consensus" seems to be rather split to me. I think the difference has less to do with the experience of the individual and more to do with the way that each is picturing the scenario in their minds. Some of the variables that seem to be at play include the ways that we are each imagining such things as:Quote:
Originally Posted by trax
1. The degree of familiarity with the area in which we are taking our walk
2. The amount of snow, both on the ground and in the air
3. The level of visibility available
4. The amount of light left to work with
5. How much ambient light might be available once darkness sets in
That's the challenge with scenarios. No matter how much detail you provide, we all still imagine the scene differently. In the end, I don't think it matters much which way one suggests as far as the scenario is concerned. What's important is that it was thought about and considered. That way, should a similar yet actual circumstance ever present itself, a useful and logical solution will likely prove more forthcoming.
Nicely stated and that's what I was aiming for. One variable that I don't think any of us discussed was how far might a person walk on snowshoes or skis in the time frame and conditions described> It might be a big influence on one's decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by lucznik
I would guess I would start heading back, north and west.
You noted the direction you started in, also noted a good compass, so I would reverse the direction.
Knowing you are dressed for the weather, or were to start with, and did carry provisions, it would/should be a no panic return trip.
You always have the option of stopping and building a wind break, and fire if necessary.
SAR operations might be called out if you didn't return, depending on if you make a habit of this, and who's waiting for you. (LOL, this has also be noted, as a legitimate concern)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason_Montana
Dogman, That is how I would Play it also. I have siwashed, three times, and once near died. None of the three were fun, even though one was a planned siwash.
Well since I have been moving forward by dead reckoning I'll head back by dead reckoning the exact opposite way I have come. If the snow starts to come down too hard to make good headway I'd find a wind break of some kind, probably a big pine tree, clear any snow from under it and around it making a wall with it around the pine tree as close to the lowest branches as possible. Then in the immediate area I'd look for dead branches on the trees around and start gathering fire wood. In all this I'd be careful not to work up a sweat. I'd set up a reflector on the opposite side of the fire from the base of the pine tree. I'd unwrap my blanket/tarp/wool rug from the bottom of my pack. Set the tarp down in an L shape half on the ground covered with pine needles and half up the trunk of the tree just to hold it in place, then the rug on the tarp on the ground then sit on the carpet, wrap up in the blanket and drape the upper half of the tarp over to keep dry from anything that falls down from the pine branches. lean back against the trunk of the tree, make a cup of tea and then some soup or oatmeal. I'd have the fire wood stacked where I could reach it easily. I'd keep the fire small but constant. With the snow walls around me and the pine branches above me and the reflector on the other side of the fire and the trees trunk behind me I should be reasonably warm until morning. I'd keep my canteen cup with water in it off to the side of the fire but close enough to keep it hot but not boiling all night so another cup of tea or hot food could be made asap when needed.
As I have said I grew up in Michigan so it wouldn't be my first overnight alone in the Winter Woods.
I guess if you factor that in, I could just walk the 97 feet back to my house.Quote:
Originally Posted by trax
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