Urban Survival Manual, any ideas?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SARKY

BENESSE, I have found that the most difficult part is the finding of like minded people before TSHTF, OH, they all become converts afterward! The second most difficult part is the storing of provisions (just never enough room)(I'm talking city dwelling here) One thing I do reccomend is having plenty of cash on hand in small denominations. When the runn on food starts, who ever has the cash in hand is going to get it. You don't want to waste time running to an ATM that might not even be working.

---

Totally agree!
The added difficulty of a large city is that people tend to be impersonal and the topic of Survival never comes up in a normal, day to day interaction.
"Survivalist" stereotypes unfortunately exist especially in a place like Manhattan so one has to thread lightly when broaching the subject.

Like Minded goes deeper than preparedness and (for me) has little to do with class, race, income or religion. So finding like-minded people in a city
of 10+ mil. is a colossal challenge.

BENESSE,
Do you have any "friends" in the city? Do you have anyone that you might broach the topic with, maybe in a round about way as in "what would you do if we have another disaster in the city?" And "what if you can't get out of the city?" Don't even mention anything about your plans or leanings until you "felt them out".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SARKY

BENESSE,
Do you have any "friends" in the city? Do you have anyone that you might broach the topic with, maybe in a round about way as in "what would you do if we have another disaster in the city?" And "what if you can't get out of the city?" Don't even mention anything about your plans or leanings until you "felt them out".

---

Sarky, I'm afraid not with this crowd at this time.
There has to be context, otherwise people just tune it out.
Manhattan is a unique place in that respect. One would think that after what happened on 9/11 the city would be more proactive in educating its residents in a meaningful and constructive way.
The mindset is just different out here. It's definitely not Utah.
And you'll have to admit that the government in general tends to hold back on disaster preparedness beyond the no-brainer stuff for fear of creating panic among people.

Perhaps I need to make new friends at the target practice and go from there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BENESSE

Sarky, I'm afraid not with this crowd at this time.
There has to be context, otherwise people just tune it out.
Manhattan is a unique place in that respect. One would think that after what happened on 9/11 the city would be more proactive in educating its residents in a meaningful and constructive way.
The mindset is just different out here. It's definitely not Utah.
And you'll have to admit that the government in general tends to hold back on disaster preparedness beyond the no-brainer stuff for fear of creating panic among people.

Perhaps I need to make new friends at the target practice and go from there.

---

Benesse, I basically classify people in 4 categories: 1) Family - those that I will stay by their side through thick and thin no matter what( Not that they have to be actual Family members, that is just the category I place them in) 2) friends- People that I will stand by most of the time but not always, 3) Acquaintances people that I know and like some, but am not necessarily loyal to and 4) others - everyone that doesn't fall in the first 3 categories. Mind you I am shortening this for brevity and am probably oversimplifying. But it would seem that most people you know fall in the last 2 categories and I do not envy you at all. That is one reason I do not like large cities. It is hard to get to know people that share similar ideas wherever you go. However the saying " nothing ventured,nothing gained" comes to mind. You may have to lose some friends and acquaintances to gain some Family, It seems that is what you are really craving is like minded individuals to form a close knit group. I guess what I'm saying is what have you got to lose as compared to what have you to gain?

And one thing I would like to point out, Benesse. It's isn't the city's responsibility to educate people. It might seem like a good role but it's still up to us. That may be part of the problem there. Folks are still looking to some level of government to "save" them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rick

And one thing I would like to point out, Benesse. It's isn't the city's responsibility to educate people. It might seem like a good role but it's still up to us. That may be part of the problem there. Folks are still looking to some level of government to "save" them.

---

Rick, the role of govt. is a whole another topic sure to generate some strong opinions.

I personally don't expect the city/state govt. to compensate for people's lack of personal responsibility. However I do expect it to do its job.
9/11 caught them unprepared to even take care of their own--NYPD & NYFD
even though they had an 8 year advance notice.
From the first attack to the second NOTHING was done. That's 0.
I live fairly close to a Fire Station that lost 8 members. I knew some of them.
Ask their surviving buddies and families if the city could have done more to ensure they had everything they needed to keep them safe.
Some of them didn't have to die.

I don't need the city to tell me to store water and batteries or be vigilant during code orange and watch for anything suspicious when half the people on the street look weird and suspicious on daily basis.

For a start what I need to know is where the shelters and evacuation routes are and how the city plans to handle 8 million bewildered people who might have to bail when TSHTF.

Israel is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Maybe our Govt. can learn something from them.

Poco, I only have 3 catagories 1: Friends, 2: Acquaintances, 3: Blivits
BENESSE, It seems that civil defense is a dead issue in this country, we have become soft, compliant, and complacent.
Rick, you are wrong, it is the govt's responsibility to have information available for the public and they should have drills in order to teach the public what to do in an emergency.
Granted you can't make them learn!

Benesse - I agree that a city has a responsibility to its employees. Certainly no question about that. Can a government do more? Sure. Can they perform drills and build shelters? Of course. And yes, Sarky, I do believe they should have information available. Evacuation routes should be marked out. But I don't believe it's governments responsibility to teach us how to plan, how to perform first aid or how best to equip our homes.

Cities and counties (depending where you live) should be the first line of defense for any disaster but it's up to us, I think, to take the initiative, learn about disasters and actually do some prepatory work prior to one happening. That's all I meant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rick

Benesse - I agree that a city has a responsibility to its employees. Certainly no question about that. Can a government do more? Sure. Can they perform drills and build shelters? Of course. And yes, Sarky, I do believe they should have information available. Evacuation routes should be marked out. But I don't believe it's governments responsibility to teach us how to plan, how to perform first aid or how best to equip our homes.

Cities and counties (depending where you live) should be the first line of defense for any disaster but it's up to us, I think, to take the initiative, learn about disasters and actually do some prepatory work prior to one happening. That's all I meant.

---

No disagreements there.

However, Manhattan is a unique case and needs a unique Federal (most important)/State/Local Govt. attention. (We also pay some of the highest taxes in the country for which we don't get back proportionately more.)

Some things just aren't possible here that people take for granted in smaller towns not to mention the country.
The living space is at the premium.
Most people live in high-rise apt. buildings with no attics or basements or yards or terraces. You can forget about storing 6 months worth of anything. If you decide to spring for a storage space it'll probably be a couple of miles away (if you're lucky) and it will cost you an arm & a leg. Then you'll have to get there somehow in case of an emergency.
Most people don't have cars and depend on public transportation to get around. Or they walk. The traffic is horrendous even on good days. It often takes me 45 minutes by cab just to make it to the Lincoln Tunnel (on the way to Newark Airport)--a stretch that should take 10 min. tops under normal circumstances. Pedestrian traffic isn't much better thanks to the hoard of tourists year round. (God bless them, we need them, but...)

I can take my own disaster preparedness up to a certain point, beyond which, the logistics of managing the freaked-out population and limited resources falls squarely on government's shoulders.
If that's not their job I don't know what is. Certainly not to tell me who I can and cannot marry, don't you think?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BENESSE

No disagreements there.

However, Manhattan is a unique case and needs a unique Federal (most important)/State/Local Govt. attention. (We also pay some of the highest taxes in the country for which we don't get back proportionately more.)

Some things just aren't possible here that people take for granted in smaller towns not to mention the country.
The living space is at the premium.
Most people live in high-rise apt. buildings with no attics or basements or yards or terraces. You can forget about storing 6 months worth of anything. If you decide to spring for a storage space it'll probably be a couple of miles away (if you're lucky) and it will cost you an arm & a leg. Then you'll have to get there somehow in case of an emergency.
Most people don't have cars and depend on public transportation to get around. Or they walk. The traffic is horrendous even on good days. It often takes me 45 minutes by cab just to make it to the Lincoln Tunnel (on the way to Newark Airport)--a stretch that should take 10 min. tops under normal circumstances. Pedestrian traffic isn't much better thanks to the hoard of tourists year round. (God bless them, we need them, but...)

---

Sounds like the the Moose Hunting likely "SUCKS" in that area..........:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sourdough

Sounds like the the Moose Hunting likely "SUCKS" in that area..........:)

---

Not true. They just gather them up in one place. You know how city folk hate to work at hunting.

http://mantiqaltayr.files.wordpress....lodge_2007.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sourdough

Sounds like the the Moose Hunting likely "SUCKS" in that area..........:)

---

Nah, we just let the rats take care of 'em.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BENESSE

Nah, we just let the rats take care of 'em.

---

All our RATS have two legs......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sourdough

All our RATS have two legs......

---

That's the ones we shoot.
The four legged kind are pets.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pocomoonskyeyes

Benesse, I basically classify people in 4 categories: 1) Family - those that I will stay by their side through thick and thin no matter what( Not that they have to be actual Family members, that is just the category I place them in) 2) friends- People that I will stand by most of the time but not always, 3) Acquaintances people that I know and like some, but am not necessarily loyal to and 4) others - everyone that doesn't fall in the first 3 categories. Mind you I am shortening this for brevity and am probably oversimplifying. But it would seem that most people you know fall in the last 2 categories and I do not envy you at all. That is one reason I do not like large cities. It is hard to get to know people that share similar ideas wherever you go. However the saying " nothing ventured,nothing gained" comes to mind. You may have to lose some friends and acquaintances to gain some Family, It seems that is what you are really craving is like minded individuals to form a close knit group. I guess what I'm saying is what have you got to lose as compared to what have you to gain?

---

Poco, you just about nailed it!
My 1 & 2 categories are at least 4 states away and beyond.
3 & 4 are the ones I'll be weathering the storms with and I'll just have to learn how if I don't get too complacent about it.
If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.

I would think (and I know it may be easier said than done) that developing some more of the category 1 and 2 relationships in your area would be the key to helping you (and them) in the situations that concern you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by crashdive123

I would think (and I know it may be easier said than done) that developing some more of the category 1 and 2 relationships in your area would be the key to helping you (and them) in the situations that concern you.

---

Most def. Crash!

I've also been involved in a neighborhood historic preservation organization for several years now and I'm finally ready to gradually introduce the idea of neighborhood disaster preparedness, etc. etc.
We've had the Red Cross presentation on basic preparedness, classes have been offered in CPR but NObody has broached the subject of a worst case scenario.

Collective "we" are just not used to facing our worst fears and dealing with them head on. That's true with the whole country and it's especially true with NYC.

Palladin Press has several books on the topic of Urban Survival and Hood's Woods has at least one DVD on it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hoosierarcher

palladin Press Has Several Books On The Topic Of Urban Survival And Hood's Woods Has At Least One Dvd On It.

---

Thanks, I Will Check Them Out. I'm Not Sure If What I Am Looking For Actually Exists. It May Boil Down To Many Books Or Just Accumulated Knowledge.

Living in the city and talking with people around here there is one thing that I can say. We, as a people, have become complacent. Too many hold the idea that situations that could obliterate the life we currently live as we know it will never happen. There are "too many fail safes" in place. There are "so many aid programs to help". I think the problem here isn't just mere ignorance, it is an unwillingness to believe that the comforts for which they have worked their entire lives, will hold out until the end of time. Its arrogant.

A perfect example of this: a manager at work always looks at me with pity when I talked about the garden or canning what we've grown, the cheese making projects or the yogurt making project, etc. I don't talk about the 50 pound bag of rice or the closet of TP stacked from floor to ceiling or anything like that. I finally asked her about it one day and she told me that she would never consider having a freezer for a side of beef or eating anything that wasn't completely fresh. She shops for their meals at the grocery store almost daily so that it is the freshest available and the idea of living like we do, growing, canning, purchasing and slaughtering our own beef etc., actually disgusts her because home canning is unsanitary (she also mentioned she would not be eating anything I brought in for pot luck ever again, too).

As the conversation went on, I was horrified to know that her cupboards were virtually bare. If they need something, they simply use their buying power and purchase it. They rarely have more than two or three meals in the making in the fridge at one time.

Ok, so I stopped talking to her because I really don't want her showing up at my house when we do end up in a situation that will warrant a, "Oh my God!" It doesn't get much more complacent as that, I don't think. She honestly believes that there will never be any type of crisis. Unfortunately, there are too many that think this way.