Les quits in Kalahari

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10-09-2007, 01:05 PM
saiga7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarge47

Uh, Saiga, we have another thread, or several of them actually for the "Bear vs. Les" debate. Please move your comments over to one of those. You're really going out on a limb here trying to defend someone you don't even know and who certainly doesn't know you. Bear can run through HIS survival course because he has his "people" with him constantly, and when it gets tough going he heads for a local Inn.

my point is that both shows have their merits and flaws. but you and others here don't seem to want to hear anything bad about Les.

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Les knows when to call it quits because there is no earthly reason to have a "survival" show where the dude dies.

which is why Bear has a crew to watch his back when he makes riskier moves than Les. and i'm not asking that Les tries to finish the show and risk death....i'm arguing that whether or not his premise of almost always staying situated is the best choice.

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Not to mention the liability problems the Discovery network would face. As far as the "Kim" family goes how do you know so much about them, were you there? my kid brother knew Mr' Kim from his buisness with the Caterpiller corporation and Mr. Kim was a total Nimrod out in the woods who made a serious mistake that cost him his life and nearly the lives of his family.

sorry but i think your kid brother was wrong. here, i just found the info on Kim (who works for C-Net) ....a ton of info:

http://www.news.com/James-Kim-found-...tml?tag=news.3

apparently, Kim was stranded for ELEVEN DAYS with his wife, 4 yr old daughter and 7 months old child.

quite pompous of you to call him a Nimrod when he managed to keep his family alive for 11 DAYS.

and it was his FOOTPRINTS in the snow that helped rescuers find his family

http://www.news.com/Searchers-keep-u...3-6140676.html

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Let's try to learn here from every one else's teaching as well as their mstakes and not turn this into a debating forum, OK?:cool:

i don't disagree with learning, which is why i'm here. but i'm not going to follow like a sheep which is what you seem to want me to by saying that i shouldn't debate anyone's points...... and just accept it as gospel?
10-09-2007, 01:14 PM
saiga7

here, i found a bunch of links form where James Kim worked (C-Net.com)

http://tinyurl.com/2a9nps

http://tinyurl.com/2g3lnw (interview with his wife about their ordeal)

he was lost for 11 DAYS. himself, wife, 4 yr old daughter and 7 month old daughter.

nobody can say that 11 days with a wife, a child and an infant is not an accomplishment. any father would have trekked out like he did after the food was gone.

and it was his FOOTPRINTS in the snow that lead the rescuers to his car to save his wife and children.

did he make mistakes, sure. but survived pretty well given his situation...and to kept his wife and children alive for 11 days is quite an accomplishment....with maybe his last, saving them.
10-09-2007, 01:32 PM
Baxter

saiga7, how much longer would you like to have seen les go in that desert? in my eyes, i do not think he 'quit'. his health and well being was in jeopardy FOR REAL, not to exaggerate for the show like bear would. there is a point where there is surviving to film a show, and surviving to actually SURVIVE. and the point at which les decided to leave was that time. besides, what normal person would not have done what he had done if they had the chance. you must learn to appreciate what he is trying to do.
until then you can learn survival techniques from bear and his scouted locations, scripted scenes, and remember to tip for room service.
10-09-2007, 01:39 PM
saiga7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baxter

saiga7, how much longer would you like to have seen les go in that desert? in my eyes, i do not think he 'quit'. his health and well being was in jeopardy FOR REAL, not to exaggerate for the show like bear would. there is a point where there is surviving to film a show, and surviving to actually SURVIVE. and the point at which les decided to leave was that time. besides, what normal person would not have done what he had done if they had the chance. you must learn to appreciate what he is trying to do.
until then you can learn survival techniques from bear and his scouted locations, scripted scenes, and remember to tip for room service.

i'm not asking Les to risk death just to make a show. i'm questioning the premise of his show....which is to stay situated and wait for help....always being the best choice.

and my other question is, why doesn't he ever focus on maintaining a separate smoke signaling fire during the daytime?

and why hasn't any rescuers mistakenly came to his rescue (since he has a night campfire going)?

therfore, if this were a real situation, he would die because he exhausted all of his water and strength to stay in one place. while Bear starts searching for a way out on day 1 while he's fresh and with water.

notice how you and other quickly come to the defense of Les and as always, starts to rip on Bear. while i'm saying that both shows have their merits and flaws.
10-09-2007, 01:46 PM
carcajou garou

Read the report again his wife and kids were spotted walking down the road away from the car, at least 2 days before they found him. It is not about how many days stranded (remember the rules of 3's...you can live 3 weeks without food). It is about being needlessly stranded in the first place, there was warning signs that they neglected to take into consideration, even the map had warnings
about blocked roads.
You say as a father he walked out to save his family, I can't stop thinking as a father shouldn't he have taken preparation.
When my family went to Asia some years ago I read, talked to experts on what to expect and bring along (told you I was anal) we did Ok, a few glitches but nothing that we couldn't handle.
You seem a romantic glorifying lost causes, we are all sorry the Bear Grylls did not live up to his TV persona in real life but facts are facts.
Were sorry Mr Kim wasn't better prepared or knowledgeable.
Learn from their mistakes instead of gloryfing the failures.
We can tell you are pro Bear anti Les, neither is a shinning example of what to do, one shows flash...the other unecessary toughness.

I know Sarge what I said but for the same reason I canoe, walk, drive out stranded people still, can't help myself.
10-09-2007, 02:17 PM
saiga7

Quote:

Originally Posted by carcajou garou

Read the report again his wife and kids were spotted walking down the road away from the car, at least 2 days before they found him.

sorry but you're wrong about the first part. http://www.news.com/Searchers-keep-u...3-6140676.html

"Authorities said search teams, including a helicopter equipped with night vision capabilities, worked through the night Monday to locate James Kim, whose footprints are visible in some spots."

"Trackers had been following his footprints, Anderson said Tuesday, but that got more difficult as they reached areas of dirt and rocks."

"We have two Forest Service officers that are following the footprints the best they can. We will be out all night,"

it was his FOOTPRINTS that kept searchers in the right vicinity of his stranded car. they found the car first obviously because it was larger.

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It is not about how many days stranded (remember the rules of 3's...you can live 3 weeks without food).

does this apply to a 4 year old child and a 7 month old infant? how about the freezing cold and their difficulty of getting dry firewood to keep a fire going?

"Searchers also said the conditions in the canyon were such that rescuers got soaked within 30 minutes of descending into it. The rescue workers were wearing protective gear;" http://tinyurl.com/2a9nps

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It is about being needlessly stranded in the first place, there was warning signs that they neglected to take into consideration, even the map had warnings about blocked roads.

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You say as a father he walked out to save his family, I can't stop thinking as a father shouldn't he have taken preparation.

again, not everybody is you. he was a city geek who went on a roadtrip.

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You seem a romantic glorifying lost causes, we are all sorry the Bear Grylls did not live up to his TV persona in real life but facts are facts.

i watch his show to learn techniques. just like i watch the UFC for certain techniques also. doesn't necessarily mean that i'd have to take all of their advice nor attempt them in a real life situation.

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Were sorry Mr Kim wasn't better prepared or knowledgeable.

he managed to keep himself, his wife and 2 young daughters alive over 9 days + 2 days (not incl. himself since he died). this is quite an accomplishment given the conditions and his background.

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Learn from their mistakes instead of gloryfing the failures.

from his wife's interview, it seems that they were lost, got bad directions, were not warned by the gas attendant.....and didn't see the signs. even if they saw the road warning signs....most citypeople wouldn't know how serious they are and would keep going. the only people who knows are people like yourself, people who lives there and people who got their butts stuck in it once but survived it to never do it again.

you keep talking down on him because this is your hobby, lifestyle, expertise, or profession.....but the average cityperson like him would have no clue.....i would call him a dumbass if he purposefully sought some stupid adventure by doing this....but he didn't. he just made very common mistakes while on a roadtrip.

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We can tell you are pro Bear anti Les, neither is a shinning example of what to do, one shows flash...the other unecessary toughness.

i've stated many times that both shows are with merits and flaws and that i like them both. you are the one who's anti-Bear and would coming to defense of Les merely by my posting a few simple questions.

can you tell me then...why Les never focuses on maintaining a daytime smoke signal fire then if the premise of his show is to stay situated and wait for help?

and why has there never been any rescuers who mistakenly come to his aid?

and what happens after 7 days when you run out of water and are on the verge of dying from dehydration because you stayed situated and help never arrived? ....and are now too weak to go trekking in the desert?
10-09-2007, 02:33 PM
criticalmass

Quote:

Originally Posted by saiga7

i'm not asking Les to risk death just to make a show. i'm questioning the premise of his show....which is to stay situated and wait for help....always being the best choice.

I seem to recall several episodes where he doesn't stay put.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saiga7

and my other question is, why doesn't he ever focus on maintaining a separate smoke signaling fire during the daytime?

He is not really trying to be rescued. Why is it never mentioned? Editing? Can't answer that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saiga7

and why hasn't any rescuers mistakenly came to his rescue (since he has a night campfire going)?

Ever notice how hard a time rescuers have finding people they know are lost? Why would rescuers just happen to be out and about near his filming location.? He would have to have a permit to do his show in most places so the appropriate authourities will already know he is there and that he is not a lost hiker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saiga7

therfore, if this were a real situation, he would die because he exhausted all of his water and strength to stay in one place. while Bear starts searching for a way out on day 1 while he's fresh and with water.

It was not a real situation. They are both TV shows. One which is far closer to reality than the other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saiga7

notice how you and other quickly come to the defense of Les and as always, starts to rip on Bear. while i'm saying that both shows have their merits and flaws.

Yes. They both have their merits and flaws. Bear's show's major flaw happens to be that they are farther from reality and only a short step from being a fictional movie. As long as you know what to take from each show you will be fine. Problem is, what do you believe from a guy that is full of sh!t. If someone doesn't have any experience then they don't know what to retain. If you don't have any experience with a particular bull sh!ter then you don't know he is feeding you full of it until it is too late. If you can't trust the information you are receiving, find a different source.

.......and make no mistake, James Kim knew he was going to die. He didn't think anyone was coming and he had no choice.
10-09-2007, 02:45 PM
carcajou garou

Whish I could use those quote buttons, would make thing so much easier.

Pretty much have said what I intended.

No one is glad Mr Kim died, he leaves behind a wife and 2 children (i think)
life happens.

nuff said by me
10-09-2007, 02:48 PM
trax

OK kiddies, don't make me come up there.

Seriously, I'm at the point where I see this stuff between Les and Bear and whoever the heck else, and all I want to do is yawn. Watching CSI isn't going to qualify me to do a post-mortem on a murder victim, know what I mean? If you want to learn survival skills, get outdoors and practice some. If you're a total newb, then start with small adventures close to home and build from their. Ask the people who are really out there doing it, there must be someone around. I've probably only offered that viewpoint about...oh 200 times in here...but seriously, they're both done for tv. TV=entertainment, be entertained or don't watch.

As far as this family in Oregon goes, the man's dead people, leave them alone, please. The only possible good that can come from it is if someone else learns from his mistakes, and that's something we can all contemplate silently.
10-09-2007, 03:53 PM
saiga7

Quote:

Originally Posted by criticalmass

I seem to recall several episodes where he doesn't stay put.

yes, that's true, he does explore within a small distance to find food & water. but he doesn't instruct on how to find civilization.

Quote:

He is not really trying to be rescued. Why is it never mentioned? Editing? Can't answer that.

then if his only goal is to survive for 7 days in the same general area, then this would be fatal if it were a real situation in the desert. and i did hear him say a few times in Season one that his goal was to show us how to survive, wait and be rescued.

Quote:

Ever notice how hard a time rescuers have finding people they know are lost? Why would rescuers just happen to be out and about near his filming location.?

yes, which is why i posed the question of how likely is it to get rescued in the desert should you GAMBLE and wait in one place like Les and exhausting all of your water and strength to the point where it's too late to go out and look for help because you're too dehydrated and weak.

Bear's show, he starts out immediately looking for a way out while he's fresh and with water. not to say that this is guaranteed to be a better gamble....i'm just saying that both shows are good and insightful.

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He would have to have a permit to do his show in most places so the appropriate authourities will already know he is there and that he is not a lost hiker.

unless he gives them an exact coordinate and he always stays there (which you've pointed out that he doesn't), then they are not really sure and cannot take the chance that it may well be a lost hiker. and should they see a signal fire, they would investigate....after all, they're already in an airplane and flying by......but Les never sees any of these rescue planes....which leads me to believe that sitting and waiting may not always be the best option.

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It was not a real situation. They are both TV shows. One which is far closer to reality than the oth

your opinion. i find that a guy in bear suit used to simulate an encounter with a bear being the same as Les always knowing where the safety camp is.

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Yes. They both have their merits and flaws. Bear's show's major flaw happens to be that they are farther from reality and only a short step from being a fictional movie. As long as you know what to take from each show you will be fine. Problem is, what do you believe from a guy that is full of sh!t.

see, here's you showing your bias. you start out sound fair but ended it with Bear being full of ****.

Quote:

If someone doesn't have any experience then they don't know what to retain. If you don't have any experience with a particular bull sh!ter then you don't know he is feeding you full of it until it is too late. If you can't trust the information you are receiving, find a different source.

ok, i have ZERO experience. never even camped in the woods. why don't you ask me specific questions about Bear's show and i'll try to answer them using logic. otherwise you're just showing your prejudice.

Quote:

.......and make no mistake, James Kim knew he was going to die. He didn't think anyone was coming and he had no choice.

this was my opinion also.
10-09-2007, 04:24 PM
Baxter

he doesn't light a signal fire during the day because whats the use of him going out there to film if he will be 'rescued' on the second day. that would be a 10 minute episode after editing is done. and les doesn't just sit there and wait, most of the time he has a location he must reach within the 7 days to meet up with his crew, if he isn't there on the seventh day his crew have to go looking for him. also, remember les is out for seven consecutive days doing all the filming himself which uses two or three times more energy than normal to get all the shots he gets. and bear has 5 days (probably not consecutive) out there with a film crew in tow, which is also his safety crew.
you complain about les having a safety crew a few hours away, meanwhile bear has his with him the entire time.
meh, i don't care anymore...i'm gonna go practice with my fire plow.
10-09-2007, 04:39 PM
saiga7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baxter

he doesn't light a signal fire during the day because whats the use of him going out there to film if he will be 'rescued' on the second day.

well he has a fire lit constantly on most nights and that would attract rescue planes should they be flying nearby.

and the premise of his show is sit and wait for rescue. but rescuers never come by or even fly by. which leads me to question whether or not staying situated and wait for help is always the best choice.

Quote:

that would be a 10 minute episode after editing is done. and les doesn't just sit there and wait, most of the time he has a location he must reach within the 7 days to meet up with his crew, if he isn't there on the seventh day his crew have to go looking for him. also, remember les is out for seven consecutive days doing all the filming himself which uses two or three times more energy than normal to get all the shots he gets. and bear has 5 days (probably not consecutive) out there with a film crew in tow, which is also his safety crew.

true on some shows he travels. but he travels on a set course to a known safety location. while Bear gives insight on how to navigate towards civilization from a perspective of a completely lost person. he may have had the whole area mapped out and studied it beforehand....or stage it like the Hawaiian volcano episode....like you said...it's a TV show.....so no reason for Bear to get lost for a month with a camera crew in the woods.

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you complain about les having a safety crew a few hours away, meanwhile bear has his with him the entire time.

no, i'm saying that they both have their merits and flaws and that both shows are good.
10-09-2007, 05:27 PM
Sarge47

Enough's enough.

Ok, that's it! Saiga you've made your points, so have the others. If you want to talk about Les vs. Bear move it to the right thread! Clear!:mad:

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