Your Most Critical Survival Resource

@crash: yes ive seen them. they are great. but its not really what im getting at though. youtube is youtube. and again thats something people have to go looking for. what im thinking is a place where things like that could be linked. and for people that dont have youtube capability/interest they can still contribute their experiences.

@rick: fair enough. im not saying implement every idea that comes your way. im not saying this idea is better than any other that has come your way.
just throwing it out there.

what is this network section you speak of ?

WE you can pick all you want, but that was not what I said. Not sure if you read either of my posts.

besides i don't utube, i have dial up, so how do i learn w/o the accss to videos

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Originally Posted by wareagle69

i agree with oneraindog this is an awesome thread, i get so frusterted and yes i am going to pick on you crash and rick, sems people post"well i would just gather some wood start a fire boil my water build a shelter and have a nice day" it is not that simple, especially using natural and i stress natural methods.
for example lets go with water pruification, i have a couple of different methods one is using a large aster leaf that i fold into a cup the dip it into a hole near a body of water that i dug to naturally filter the water, this method sucks but will keep you hydrated
next is using birch bark that is still intacked, i pull out all the decayed wood and fill with lots of grasses then dip into water and either drink out of one end or filter into the aster leaf, i am still working on making a passable cup for longer storage or boiling water.both of these are very time consuming and not something i like to do after dark
ok kids see what i am doing i think this is what mac was looking for natural methods

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Wareagle,

Yes, this is exactly the point I was driving at. I had been writing something else, not a post, and got to thinking that it would make a great question to pose.

I'll put some of that material here, thought its unedited rough draft...

"The needs of a wilderness survivor can be placed into several broad categories. Medical and security problems aside, the first three, FIRE – SHELTER – WATER can all compete for the position of most critical. Once these problems are solved the adventure starts to look more like camping and less like surviving. Resolving these three immediate needs creates a short term stability that will enable you to resolve the rest of the problem. The next two priorities are SIGNALS and NAVIGATION. Signals will attract rescue and navigation will get you out of the bush and back to civilization, but both have the goal of ending the ordeal. I class FOOD as a very low priority and put it last because unless you are in an extremely cold environment hunger will not actually kill you in a 72 hour ordeal.

Wilderness survival equipment is carried with the end of creating stable conditions of SHELTER-FIRE-WATER in the short run and enabling SIGNALS- NAVIGATION as conditions allow. For each of these categories we plan to carry resources to enable these conditions in a reasonable amount of TIME before they begin to degrade our chances of survival.

For every piece of wilderness survival kit we carry we should also have a back-up system that relies on knowledge, intelligence, natural materials, basic tools, and personal skill. I place these back-up systems in the category of bushcraft. Ideally these techniques should be able to rest upon the ability to make the basic tools necessary from materials on hand."

I also get very frustrated by people tossing off head knowledge as equated with actual experience. Friction fire is an awesome skill to have in the head, it is exactly the kind of bushcraft technique we should become skilled in. Going from a knife to a fire is a whole different animal under field conditions and I would be hard pressed to create fire with only a knife especially if I also had to resolve my shelter and water problems without wilderness survival resources. Mac

I deliberately left some wiggle room in this to get as much information as possible. When this is all done I'd like to have it be a record of how long tasks take to get done. There is a huge time difference between surviving in the wilderness with survival equipment and trying to bushcraft it all.

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/439/img3112kb7.jpg
This rock shelter involved finding the location, clearing the ground, finding and cutting a pole, rigging the poncho, removing some rocks, and collecting bedding. It took about 1.5 hours to get it to the point he could spend two nights here.

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3...oabrigofp6.jpg
This double bunk shelter built under a rock overhang took my daughter and I four hours to build. That also included the time it took to prepare bark lashings and collect bedding.

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/716/img1788xo8.jpg
This is the typical open ground shelter over a grass bed. It involved finding a flat spot, not easy, clearing enough flat ground to stretch out, cutting a few poles, rigging the poncho, and ripping up enough grass to insulate the ground. The whole process took about 1.5 hours, with some of that spent in searching a location and traveling back and forth to where we had decent grass.

Each of these shelters make use of a poncho for overhead cover but still involved a substantial amount of work. How much more time would have been needed to build overhead cover with natural materials? How much time could have been saved by using a man-made ground pad?

The times I'm using here start with deciding to resolve the problem to finished and ready to use. I think that's important because while rigging up a poncho as overhead cover may only take 15 minutes or so, finding the location to do it needs to be factored in as part of solving the problem. On that last photo we had hiked over a ridge and spotted a good looking little valley/plateau that covered a few acres. I could see from the ridge that we had everything we needed down there, decision made, camp here, start the clock.

Once the shelters were up we also had to make a water run. We wern't using primitive means for this but as I recall it was about an hour before we had five liters of water in camp.

Mac

Nice thread, Mac!

Shelter: One to two hours depending on climate/conditions.

Fire: Fifteen minutes to one hour to gather initial wood and light fire, depending on conditions, and another half hour to two hours gathering additional wood.

Water: About 15 minutes with a Katadyn pocket filter.

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Originally Posted by Ken

Nice thread, Mac!

Shelter: One to two hours depending on climate/conditions.

Fire: Fifteen minutes to one hour to gather initial wood and light fire, depending on conditions, and another half hour to two hours gathering additional wood.

Water: About 15 minutes with a Katadyn pocket filter.

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ken ken ken ken ken ken, (shaking my head) deatils son details and did you miss the word NATURAL here no katadyn natural
fire 15 minutes to an hour dud i need to come hang out with you and learn what i am doing wrong, can you tell me how you do that so fast

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Originally Posted by wareagle69

ken ken ken ken ken ken, (shaking my head) deatils son details and did you miss the word NATURAL here no katadyn natural
fire 15 minutes to an hour dud i need to come hang out with you and learn what i am doing wrong, can you tell me how you do that so fast

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Natural? What's natural to me is......

Using my Katadyn is about as natural as I get. Before that, it was AquaPure. Yeah, I've used coffee filters and boiled my water, but it sometimes tasted like crap depending on the source......

Flicking my Bic. But don't worry, I stopped using charcoal lighter fluid when I turned 12. :blushing: I've used a Fire Steel, but I've been known to be a bit impatient when I'm cold and hungry. :innocent:

BUT FEAR NOT! The shelter is with materials nature provides - debris, snow......... At least I understood that we weren't talking about my one man tent or my bivy. :)

well all i see from this in the last hour is that folks need to get out into the field a bit more and get "boots in the feild time" "dirt time" what have you and practice and learn more, book knowledge is great but what are any of your (any refering to all of you here)
actual feild skills, tell me show me explain to me how to do it not just "blah blah blah" but details people details,
or bypass this thread and leave it to the folks with the expeinece

The times Ken posted there and the methods he used to solve the problem are valid times for what he describes. Those are wilderness survival equipment and techniques being employed and like I said in the original post I use a mix of WS and BC methods every time I go out.

We have all heard "The more you know the less you carry". That is true to an extent. My personal Central Brazil pack is down to about 15 lbs (give or take, much more if loaded out with water). I could get by without many of those items and I'd be stripped down to a total kit load of about 10 lbs. If any of those remaining items are removed from the pack my TIME factor will go up dramatically to bushcraft my way out of problems that could actually kill me. Mac

Edited to add...
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7...0507985340.jpg
This is that basic 10 lbs or so of kit I'm not willing to leave without. I might substitute a machete and scandi for the BK-7 but this is the kind of kit that will give me the time to resolve my problems on day one and make day two a pleasure.

Where I am makes a huge difference. Shelter under an overhang can be found almost anywhere. I cover a few hundred acres I know pretty well after walking them for 55+yrs. I now use a Jeep hardtop with enough to live in or an ATV with plenty of supplies. I know my area, know where to find shelter, am well supplied and armed. Unless I had an accident and was injured, broke my cell & gps to call for help giving my location I would not have any problems. I learned and used the basics when I was young so "head" knowledge is there. I know "how" but now I say "Why". I always go with wife & friends. Except for a few years I have spent my life in E. KY & S. WV and have a better than average knowledge of the area. This is now the way I go and I posted a couple of pics of hundreds of acres I know very well. Everything of which you speak is situational depending on your area. I would hope everyone is in an area that they are comfortable in. As for the Ohio you abandon barges upriver you won't have any bridges to worry about and in the '50s we practically lived off the land anyway. The pic of a cabin I posted has 2br, eat in kitchen, full bath, living room, porch all around, good garden, generator, well, outhouse(with door) and plenty of friends all 99 miles from nowhere. I think we could manage, even have a doc in the group. I sleep well at night.

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Originally Posted by wareagle69

well all i see from this in the last hour is that folks need to get out into the field a bit more and get "boots in the feild time" "dirt time" what have you and practice and learn more, book knowledge is great but what are any of your (any refering to all of you here)
actual feild skills, tell me show me explain to me how to do it not just "blah blah blah" but details people details,
or bypass this thread and leave it to the folks with the expeinece

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Wow. I guess we all just don't measure up to your standards. Kind of pompass don't you think?

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Originally Posted by crashdive123

Wow. I guess we all just don't measure up to your standards. Kind of pompass don't you think?

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I agree... my field craft is just that... MY field craft. I am where I am with it. Sorry, I don't filter my water with leaves... But I also don't drive to starbucks then back to the trail for it.

Everyone's goals are different. Although I would like to get there, I don't want to go into the field with a knife and a pair of boots for 3 months. Thats VERY VERY cool that you do, but we are all at different places.

To me, I would like to be able to get around with a kit like Pict showed. Apparently to wareagle that would be like a weekend at the Ritz LOL.

Id love to get a field kit for 3-4 days down to about 15-20 lbs. That would be a big step for ME and would make ME prouder than a peacock.

I don't know... I'll just say it again... we are all at different places and I think that's totally ok and doesn't need any judgment from others. I think the most important thing is to sharpen your skills where you are and not to kid yourself into thinking you are Jeremiah Johnson if your not. Knowing "where you are" is probably the most important tool in the survival kit. Knowing what you can and cannot do. Im just having a ball trying to get my kit together and learning all the little things along the way. For the life of me I cannot find any "Tinder Fungus" lol.

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Originally Posted by crashdive123

Wow. I guess we all just don't measure up to your standards. Kind of pompass don't you think?

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no not really
i am just starting to realise that many here do not actually have the feild time sure a couple times camping out and read some threads and books, but the question was very specific about natural methods and no one could answer the question of what they have done sans modern equipment, sure haveing the modern equipment is great but not fail safe.if your happy and comfortable with that then good for you, but was just wondering what most will do if/when equipment fails. was looking for details not just the blah blah answer that anyone can type from behind the keyboard but show the actual true experince not book or computer learning, just shows who here has the time in the feild and who doesn't. i think hopeak had it right

[quote]Apparently to wareagle that would be like a weekend at the Ritz LOL. [quote]
not apparently but obviously, but it is what i like to do knowing i can survive w/o modern gear, that comes from spending more than 3 days in the bush, do 14 or 30 days and come back and teach me about what you learned then you will understand where i am coming from

Mac when I was young I loved doing the things your doing but I didnt even think about how long it took me, it was just do it and get it done. nowadays with my bad back and the wife's bad knee it takes me longer to find a remote location away from others that I can park my trailer.
I still setup camps like you do now and then to keep some skills but I dont stay there ( I think I miss it more than keeping skills)

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Originally Posted by wareagle69

no not really
i am just starting to realise that many here do not actually have the feild time sure a couple times camping out and read some threads and books, but the question was very specific about natural methods and no one could answer the question of what they have done sans modern equipment, sure haveing the modern equipment is great but not fail safe.if your happy and comfortable with that then good for you, but was just wondering what most will do if/when equipment fails. was looking for details not just the blah blah answer that anyone can type from behind the keyboard but show the actual true experince not book or computer learning, just shows who here has the time in the feild and who doesn't. i think hopeak had it right

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I was running the woods probably before you were born or in 3 corner pants. I think over the years I have paid my dues and I don't have to prove myself anymore. I go the way I do because I enjoy it, don't impress easily and don't need to do more damage to my body. I could if I really needed to, but why? My boots were in the field for 35yrs, that's long enough.

well if ya'll can read the op wanted to know what natural methods you would use, if you are too old or have no bush time then read another thread same as always if ya don't like whats being posted here then read something else. simple details of natural methods is what the question was asked and apparently very few here can answer that, which is why i suggest either post about what you know or get out in the feild and learn
simple no?

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Originally Posted by Pict

Edited to add...
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7...0507985340.jpg
This is that basic 10 lbs or so of kit I'm not willing to leave without. I might substitute a machete and scandi for the BK-7 but this is the kind of kit that will give me the time to resolve my problems on day one and make day two a pleasure.

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Pict, Love my BK-7, but I really love my Becker Combat Bowie for the extra choppin' power. It really helps when building a fire. Your minimalist kit is truely minimalist. A++ Great posts...:munchies:

Her ya go. As some overcome the puberty stages they realize how childish proving them selves was, prove what to whom and why? Put your self high on a pedestal that doesn't exist? LMFAO