What if "WE" are ALL 100% WRONG in our preperations...????

I guess I would also add that testing "a" plan needs to start with the SHTF scenario you find most likely to occur and/or impact your family. Again, this may be geographically based but weather related events must certainly be at the top of the list along with things like house fires and home accidents. For fires and in home accidents, prevention is always the key. Start with the basics like smoke and CO detectors and weather radios.

Here are some facts from the National Safety Council:

• 80 percent of all fire deaths occur in the home (U.S. Fire Administration)
• The leading cause of fire deaths is careless smoking (U.S. Fire Administration)
• Having a working smoke detector more than doubles one’s chances of surviving a fire (U.S. Fire Administration)
• 3,675 people died in fires in the United States in 2005 – one person every 143 minutes. While the number of fires increased in 2005 over 2004, the number of deaths decreased 5.8 percent. (National Fire Protection Association).
• In 2005, 106 firefighters died in the line of duty in the United States – down from 117 in 2004 (U.S. Fire Administration)
• Adults 65 and older are more than twice as likely to die in fires as the overall population. (U.S. Fire Administration study)
• People born in 2003 have a 1-in-1,100 lifetime odds of dying due to exposure to smoke, fire or flame. Odds in any given year are 1:86,000. (National Safety Council)

The NSC has a great site. You might want to take some time and read through it.

http://www.nsc.org/resources/factshe...revention.aspx

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Originally Posted by rat31465

We tried but it didn't keep things frozen soild for long term.
We did have one ice chest outside that we kept milk, eggs and lunch meat in and other things that needed to be kept cold but not frozen.

A stray dog actually got into our food storage one night and left us with a big mess.

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gotcha, must have been getting well above freezing during the day. In my experience a freezer full of solidly frozen one pound blocks of meat don't need ice on them unless the outside temperature gets above 40 or so for a full day.
About the dog getting into your ice chest...tie a rope or a NRS strap around it to keep is sealed and keep the critters out

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Originally Posted by Hopeak

See....that is what I am talking about.....right there. Some things have to be learned from a experience. Change the variables and that little inconvenience could have resulted in death, or misery.

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Won't that be true no matter how realistically we test our plan? If he were to do that today, he wouldn't sit the cooler outside because it is summer time. As Ken said, the ever present Murphy is going to toss us a bone no matter how well we plan, no matter how well we test and no matter how well we execute.

You've obviously given this some thought so what would be your "rule of thumb" for testing?

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Originally Posted by hopeak

See....that is what I am talking about.....right there. Some things have to be learned from a experience. Change the variables and that little inconvenience could have resulted in death, or misery.

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In the rafting biz, the phrase is "rig to flip" so everything is tied down, and strapped shut. its customary to use straps to wrap around the cooler and keep it closed even when the cooler is flipped upside down.

Using two straps also makes it fairly critter proof and even somewhat bearproof if you have a YETI cooler. So, anytime I store food outside, its common practice to strap it shut as well.

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Originally Posted by hopeak

Going car camping one or twice per year is just that, a well thought out, same as everyday life just not in your home, but you have thought of every possable thing you might need so as to not be miserable. Well that ain't "Survival", that's luxury camping.

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All I can say is....you've never seen me camp.

But seriously, during the summers I take the youngun's out primative camping several times to practice our skills. And when we aren't camping, we are still practicing. The hubby likes to keep the A/C on 85 degrees in the summer to cut back on electricity costs (he's at work at a nice 70 degrees, so what does he care) so the rest of us enjoy getting out.

thats right hopeak, in survival your going to be wet, your going to be sticky, your going to get blisters on your feet, your going to be too tired to move. and if that pack is stuffed to the brim with all of your gagetry,then you get the shoulder cramps.

so condition your self to be comfortable with being uncomfortable.

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Originally Posted by erunkiswldrnssurvival

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so condition your self to be comfortable with being uncomfortable.

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thats what I am talking about....

uncomfortable is a state of mind

But why do I want to do that? Isn't the point in life to be uncomfortable with being uncomfortable? We have electricity and air conditioning and central heat and running water and packaged food because folks were tired of being uncomfortable and sought out a better, easier way to live.

I don't mind practicing my plan to ensure I have the right gear but I'll wait until I HAVE to be uncomfortable to be uncomfortable. If it never happens, I'm that much ahead of the game.

there are some of the problem areas that i was thinking about like having to make neumerous stream crossings, eroded or irregular landscapes,swarms of biteing insects,extreem exposure to sun or cold,or to be caught out in a 3 day freezing rain,thorny vines and other forbidding plants. there are hundreds of obsticles out there to camp and stay put you can have a lot of comfort, but traveling puts those obsticles right out there.

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Originally Posted by Rick

But why do I want to do that? Isn't the point in life to be uncomfortable with being uncomfortable? We have electricity and air conditioning and central heat and running water and packaged food because folks were tired of being uncomfortable and sought out a better, easier way to live.

I don't mind practicing my plan to ensure I have the right gear but I'll wait until I HAVE to be uncomfortable to be uncomfortable. If it never happens, I'm that much ahead of the game.

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speak for yourself...i don't have air conditoning or central heat. LOL...

Sure you do. It's just off season. Open the doors in the winter and it's cool all through the house!!

so i like to carry my kudjlik

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Originally Posted by Rick

Won't that be true no matter how realistically we test our plan? If he were to do that today, he wouldn't sit the cooler outside because it is summer time. As Ken said, the ever present Murphy is going to toss us a bone no matter how well we plan, no matter how well we test and no matter how well we execute.

You've obviously given this some thought so what would be your "rule of thumb" for testing?

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Sorry, I don't have one. When a person is safe and secure, large parts of them shut down. Like Jason just said, "Rig to Flip"......There is a different level of awareness if one is outside of their comfort zone. I am advocating that people spend more time outside their comfort zone. I think there are people who have never been in the wilderness, never pooped on anything but a flush toilet, never done a hard days (18 hours) manual labor. I think people are so "CLUELESS" that they can't even guess how hard a survival experience would be. Look at the clueless survival shows on TV. Even the producer has no clue what survival is.

Think of all the training that goes into making a good military team, practice, practice, practice......and still many will freeze, panic, perform wrongly in their first real engagement.

Hell, take away the the whole Survival part of it. No survival just hard life with lots of work, labor type work, not making spreadsheets work. Most people could not do it. On Guided Hunts, with the best equipment, and the guide doing 100% of the work 100%, the client does nothing. His meals are cooked for him, the cat-hole is dug for him, the animals are skinned for him, and still, many ask to go home early, and forfeit the $14,000 they spent for 14 days of hunting,, why mostly because of the weather, and the stress of the new environment..

People could not do what Wareagle did for even one day and one night, let alone 30 days or forever and ever, and ever.

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Originally Posted by Rick

But why do I want to do that? Isn't the point in life to be uncomfortable with being uncomfortable? We have electricity and air conditioning and central heat and running water and packaged food because folks were tired of being uncomfortable and sought out a better, easier way to live.

I don't mind practicing my plan to ensure I have the right gear but I'll wait until I HAVE to be uncomfortable to be uncomfortable. If it never happens, I'm that much ahead of the game.

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That's a JOKE Right.........????? If not you just nailed it goooooder than I did.

Actually, no. No joke. I've worked outside, climbing poles and digging holes when it was over 100F and -20 below (that was the temp, not the wind chill). I've spent weeks away from my family getting to see them on week-ends. Sometimes. Left the dozer running because it was too danged cold to start it if it stopped. Put a torch to the hydraulic tank to get the bucket to work because the hydraulic fluid was too cold and too thick. I'm done with all that. I'm glad I did it but I don't want to ever do it again. It's no worse than others have done and a lot less than some have had to go through. At least no one was shooting at me. But I know what hard work is. I'm only fit for light duty these days. My shocks leak, my overloads have been bounced on once too often. My engine mounts are loose. My muffle doesn't and my headlights need headlights. Thanks, but it's time for me to be uncomfortable with being uncomfortable from here on out.

I've got one last bottle of water left from that fountain of youth before it dried up. Make me an offer. :innocent:

Oh, Lord no. I don't ever want to go backwards. I'm with Patton on that one. Never pay for the same ground twice!

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Originally Posted by Rick

But why do I want to do that? Isn't the point in life to be uncomfortable with being uncomfortable? We have electricity and air conditioning and central heat and running water and packaged food because folks were tired of being uncomfortable and sought out a better, easier way to live.

I don't mind practicing my plan to ensure I have the right gear but I'll wait until I HAVE to be uncomfortable to be uncomfortable. If it never happens, I'm that much ahead of the game.

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I don't think that the point of life is to be comfortable......I think the point of life is to be alive. Vibrantly alive, to live 100% every day, to not hold back, to live fully and completely every hour, so that when death comes, one knows in his heart, that he as extracted all the of the joy, sorrow, aliveness he was allotted, that he is fully used up, burned out, and the next BIG adventure is death.

However I do believe 98.8 % of Americans believe as you do. So I feel that I have got a complete answer to my question. People are too busy with other life commitments & projects, and/or want life to be easy, comfortable, secure, predictable, dry, 70 degrees, wind at their back.......sounds pretty good.....but someone needs to see where this other "Less traveled" road goes. Rick, I truly thank you for your honest answer, Thank you.....:)

I wish some others would chime in. This is a good thread and a good subject. It deserves to have some fresh ideas injected.

Here's what I believe:

Unless I'm at ground zero, driving over the manhole cover as it explodes, or the first to get sneezed on by that guy who just got off the plane with Ebola virus, I'm far better prepared than most are to survive.

A disaster is a small meteor causing damage to a town. A catastrophy is when it lands on your house. What do we always say about luck?

However, if I haven't gone down at the very beginning of a SHTF scenario, I believe that I'm more prepared than 98.8% (Hopeak's statistic) of everyone else (except trained military folks) to survive whatever comes along. That's because 98.8% of the people out there have never given it a thought to begin with.

Most members here are far better equipped than the general population in terms of survival skills and thinking in general. I think that's even true, albeit to a far lesser degree, of most of the numptys and paperback experts who pay us a visit here from time to time. At least they've given it some thought.