Global Warming?

Crash, he is one of those types that would argue with a fence post that it was in the wrong hole after he put it there in the first place.

I think that climate change is real, but NOT caused by humans, and is not driven by co2. Here is a good vid about climate change

http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/e10...php?content.22

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dbldrew

I think that climate change is real, but NOT caused by humans, and is not driven by co2. Here is a good vid about climate change

http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/e10...php?content.22

---

I too do not believe in man-made global warming (oops - I guess climate change is the new slogan).

Wildwoman still makes an awfully good point about the pollution.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trax

Wildwoman still makes an awfully good point about the pollution.

---

Yes she does, but that is the thing that really drives me nuts with global warming caused by co2. Co2 is equally important to the survival of all life on the planet as is Oxygen. Co2 is not a pollutant, so when there is billions of dollars that could be used to help real environmental problems that instead is wasted on global warming, it’s sickening.

The earth gets cold. The earth gets warm. The earth is like a woman. What man needs to do is stop trying to figure it out and just accept it.

This is interesting reading about climate change.
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/ice_ages.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wildWoman

Even if we were approaching another iceage and human activity had no impact on the climate whatsoever; what's the point in using that as an argument not to thrash the planet? It is human greed and stupid mindless consumerism that has led to so much pollution and extinction of many species. It is plain stupidity to have the entire world economy dependent on a non-renewable energy source, quite apart from the "carbon footprint".
It seems to me that if all "smarts" the human race thinks it possesses were applied to living within our means, avoiding and combatting pollution and the destruction of the few last wild places that remain, we'd all be better off. I'd love to have mining and oil company CEOs required to live off the waters they pollute for the rest of their lives and live right next to their tailing ponds until they die. I suspect they might see things a little different then.

---

You see what Mars looks like......that probably what the human race left behind, the last planet we crashed. Let's go fix it back up!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by klkak

The earth get cold. The earth gets warm. The earth is like a woman. What man needs to do is stop trying to figure it out and just accept it.

---

Um, hence the expressions "Mother Earth" and "Mother Nature"?

Here's another thing to raise your blood pressure: the pacific gyre garbage mass. Last I heard it was the size of Texas! A floating collection of garbage the size of frikken Texas...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by crashdive123

Just exactly where do you think people's place is?

---

A little more humble to start. Less "**** it, I'm lazy, let the next generation figure it out" and more "holy crap the glaciers are gone! We better do something!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by klkak

Crash, he is one of those types that would argue with a fence post that it was in the wrong hole after he put it there in the first place.

---

Nah, I'd start arguing with you, who I paid to do the work but whom forgot what to do.

FUN FACTS about CARBON DIOXIDE

Of the 186 billion tons of CO2 that enter earth's atmosphere each year from all sources, only 6 billion tons are from human activity. Approximately 90 billion tons come from biologic activity in earth's oceans and another 90 billion tons from such sources as volcanoes and decaying land plants.

At 368 parts per million CO2 is a minor constituent of earth's atmosphere-- less than 4/100ths of 1% of all gases present. Compared to former geologic times, earth's current atmosphere is CO2- impoverished.

CO2 is odorless, colorless, and tasteless. Plants absorb CO2 and emit oxygen as a waste product. Humans and animals breathe oxygen and emit CO2 as a waste product. Carbon dioxide is a nutrient, not a pollutant, and all life-- plants and animals alike-- benefit from more of it. All life on earth is carbon-based and CO2 is an essential ingredient. When plant-growers want to stimulate plant growth, they introduce more carbon dioxide.

CO2 that goes into the atmosphere does not stay there but is continually recycled by terrestrial plant life and earth's oceans-- the great retirement home for most terrestrial carbon dioxide.

If we are in a global warming crisis today, even the most aggressive and costly proposals for limiting industrial carbon dioxide emissions would have a negligible effect on global climate!

Climate change is controlled primarily by cyclical eccentricities in Earth's rotation and orbit, as well as variations in the sun's energy output.

"Greenhouse gases" in Earth's atmosphere also influence Earth's temperature, but in a much smaller way. Human additions to total greenhouse gases play a still smaller role, contributing about 0.2% - 0.3% to Earth's greenhouse effect

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mitch.chesney

A little more humble to start. Less "**** it, I'm lazy, let the next generation figure it out" and more "holy crap the glaciers are gone! We better do something!"

---

You must be right. I mean look at what happened to Greenland. If only we would have done something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mitch.chesney

Here's another thing to raise your blood pressure: the pacific gyre garbage mass. Last I heard it was the size of Texas! A floating collection of garbage the size of frikken Texas...

A little more humble to start. Less "**** it, I'm lazy, let the next generation figure it out" and more "holy crap the glaciers are gone! We better do something!"

Nah, I'd start arguing with you, who I paid to do the work but whom forgot what to do.

---

I have never failed to bring out every person I've guided into the Alaska back country alive. You however, I would make an exception for.:eek:

Greenland's on it's way. But yes, some glaciers are increasing in size...here

http://www.detectingdesign.com/image...nland_Melt.jpg
http://www.detectingdesign.com/image...cier_melt3.jpg
http://www.detectingdesign.com/image...ier%20Melt.jpg
http://www.detectingdesign.com/image...ier%20Melt.jpg
http://www.stopglobalwarming.com.au/...ound_world.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ziggy

Aside from the record low temps in many places, and the established fact that the planet hasn't warmed any in ten years and is beginning a cooling trend, what do you all think about global warming, or climate change?

....

---

Dude... Are you serious? Or are you just trying to pass on ignorance as 'bliss'???

I challenge you to find 5 climatologists in the world that have legitimate credentials that would agree with that statement. Global warming is a fact. There are thousands of scientists all over the globe and in every country that agree with that and have signed on. In the US though, global warming has been turned into a political football so that a few people at the top of the energy heap in in the US can continue to rape the earth and make huge profits with little to no consequence.

But in truth it should not really be called global warming, it should be called Global Wierding as things are going to be warmer everywhere. Just much weirder and in the future, much more deadly for mankind than we have grown to expect.

I would highly recommend that if you think Global warming isn't real, that you go read: http://unfccc.int/2860.php Spend a couple hours here and it may very well change the way you are thinking.

Here is what you should REALLY GET here though: If such a disparate group of scientists, politicians, and bureaucrats can take a massive amount of empirical data, and whittle it down the the statements that are now being fully supported, then the problem is really much worse than they are telling us. Why do I say that? Because every politician and bureaucrat that touched the UNFCC paperwork had to exact his/her pound of flesh from it, which means the consensus is skewed towards not making people freak out, and not making governments look culpable.

What can you do about Global warming personally? It's in your(and your kids and grandkids and their grandkids) best interest to do what you can to decrease your output where you can, mitigate what you cannot decrease, and to put pressure on all your elected officials so that they will do the same and make it economically viable.

Things I do: (not that I am special or anything, just examples of easy changes we all can make) All lights in my house except for a couple of specialty lamps are CFLs. I no longer drive my 55 mile daily commute, I use public transit. When I do drive it's not the jeep, It's a Honda Civic. Installed a solar water heater, Planted deciduous trees to shade the house in summer, and still expose it to sunlight in the winter. Whole house fan to blow hot air out before running the AC in the summer. Completely sealed the rafters with Reflectix last year(My heating bills are definitely down by 10 or 15% in the short term.)

Ok folks end rant...

Mitch - I was thinking a bit further back - before man had an impact.

From Live Science

Quote:

---

The oldest ever recovered DNA samples have been collected from under more than a mile of Greenland ice, and their analysis suggests the island was much warmer during the last Ice Age than previously thought.
The DNA is proof that sometime between 450,000 and 800,000 years ago, much of Greenland was especially green and covered in a boreal forest that was home to alder, spruce and pine trees, as well as insects such as butterflies and beetles.
From the genetic material of these organisms, the researchers infer that Greenland’s temperature once varied from 50 degrees Fahrenheit in summer to 1.4 degrees Fahrenheit in winter—the temperature range that the tree species prefer.
“We have shown for the first time that southern Greenland ... was once very different to the Greenland we see today,” said study leader Eske Willerslev of the University of Copenhagen.
Less glacial cover in ancient Greenland means the global ocean was probably between three and six feet higher during that time compared to current levels, the scientists say.
“To get this site ice free you would’ve had to remove the ice cover from about the southern third of Greenland,” study team member Martin Sharp, a glaciologist at the University of Alberta, Canada, told LiveScience.
The findings, detailed in the July 6 issue of the journal Science, demonstrate how far the young field of ancient DNA research has come: scientists can now recreate an environment’s climate and ecology using only recovered DNA, without the need for fossils that might be absent or hard to reach.
“To go from dirty water to a forest full of insects is pretty amazing,” study team member Matthew Collins, a biomolecular archaeologist at the University of York, said in a related Science news article.
Greenland’s thick ice sheets served as a perfect, natural freezer for preserving the prehistoric DNA. Older genetic samples have been found, but none in such pristine condition as the new Greenland samples.
The team says their technique could be applied to DNA found in other icy parts of the globe, such as Antarctica. “Given that 10 percent of the Earth’s terrestrial surface is covered by thick ice sheets, it could open up a world of new discoveries,” said study team member Enrico Cappellini of the University of York in the United Kingdom.
Plants still survive in Greenland today, although mostly along the island’s coast, since the interior is blanketed in ice. “There’s tundra vegetation,” Sharp said. “There’s also dwarf birch probably, and willows almost are certain. But not pine or spruce, which we have in the DNA here.”

---

Ah, news to me. :) I knew Canada and the arctic had a similar effect, I don't know why I didn't make the connection to Greenland. Well played ol' boy

So the cycle is 650,000 years give/take?

Crash... We came out of the last ice age about 12000 years ago, so your data below has no bearing on this discussion. Between 455,000 and 800,000 years ago EVERYTHING was f=different and green land was not where it is now in relation to the north pole. And all that ice melting there now has been there for way longer than 12,000 years...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by crashdive123

Mitch - I was thinking a bit further back - before man had an impact.

From Live Science

The oldest ever recovered DNA samples have been collected from under more than a mile of Greenland ice, and their analysis suggests the island was much warmer during the last Ice Age than previously thought.
The DNA is proof that sometime between 450,000 and 800,000 years ago, much of Greenland was especially green and covered in a boreal forest that was home to alder, spruce and pine trees, as well as insects such as butterflies and beetles.
From the genetic material of these organisms, the researchers infer that Greenland’s temperature once varied from 50 degrees Fahrenheit in summer to 1.4 degrees Fahrenheit in winter—the temperature range that the tree species prefer.
“We have shown for the first time that southern Greenland ... was once very different to the Greenland we see today,” said study leader Eske Willerslev of the University of Copenhagen.
Less glacial cover in ancient Greenland means the global ocean was probably between three and six feet higher during that time compared to current levels, the scientists say.
“To get this site ice free you would’ve had to remove the ice cover from about the southern third of Greenland,” study team member Martin Sharp, a glaciologist at the University of Alberta, Canada, told LiveScience.
The findings, detailed in the July 6 issue of the journal Science, demonstrate how far the young field of ancient DNA research has come: scientists can now recreate an environment’s climate and ecology using only recovered DNA, without the need for fossils that might be absent or hard to reach.
“To go from dirty water to a forest full of insects is pretty amazing,” study team member Matthew Collins, a biomolecular archaeologist at the University of York, said in a related Science news article.
Greenland’s thick ice sheets served as a perfect, natural freezer for preserving the prehistoric DNA. Older genetic samples have been found, but none in such pristine condition as the new Greenland samples.
The team says their technique could be applied to DNA found in other icy parts of the globe, such as Antarctica. “Given that 10 percent of the Earth’s terrestrial surface is covered by thick ice sheets, it could open up a world of new discoveries,” said study team member Enrico Cappellini of the University of York in the United Kingdom.
Plants still survive in Greenland today, although mostly along the island’s coast, since the interior is blanketed in ice. “There’s tundra vegetation,” Sharp said. “There’s also dwarf birch probably, and willows almost are certain. But not pine or spruce, which we have in the DNA here.”

---

My whole point is that it is my belief that the planet goes through cycles and that man has very little if any effect on the climate. (Please don't mistake this for health issues caused by pollution or squandering natural resources). The argument is always - it's settled.....all scientists agree......etc, etc, etc. No they don't. IMO for reasons that we do not discuss on the forum (political) the claims of man made climate change are perpetuated. Why are we (many parts of the planet) experiencing colder than average temperatures? (for the last few years) Why is it that the planet average high temp occured over 100 years ago? (The report by NASA that said 2005 (or some recent date) was flawed and subsequently corrected). I know there are groups and organizations that are trying to promote one agenda or another, but here is a bit of food for thought.

http://www.junkscience.com/news/robinson.htm

http://ourcivilisation.com/aginatur/swindle.htm

http://ourcivilisation.com/aginatur/sealevel.htm

http://ourcivilisation.com/aginatur/hot.htm

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Story?id=3061015&page=1

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1899

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-warming-myth/

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...articleId=5086

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Badawg

Dude... Are you serious? Or are you just trying to pass on ignorance as 'bliss'???

I challenge you to find 5 climatologists in the world that have legitimate credentials that would agree with that statement. Global warming is a fact. There are thousands of scientists all over the globe and in every country that agree with that and have signed on. In the US though, global warming has been turned into a political football so that a few people at the top of the energy heap in in the US can continue to rape the earth and make huge profits with little to no consequence.

But in truth it should not really be called global warming, it should be called Global Wierding as things are going to be warmer everywhere. Just much weirder and in the future, much more deadly for mankind than we have grown to expect.

I would highly recommend that if you think Global warming isn't real, that you go read: http://unfccc.int/2860.php Spend a couple hours here and it may very well change the way you are thinking.

Here is what you should REALLY GET here though: If such a disparate group of scientists, politicians, and bureaucrats can take a massive amount of empirical data, and whittle it down the the statements that are now being fully supported, then the problem is really much worse than they are telling us. Why do I say that? Because every politician and bureaucrat that touched the UNFCC paperwork had to exact his/her pound of flesh from it, which means the consensus is skewed towards not making people freak out, and not making governments look culpable.

What can you do about Global warming personally? It's in your(and your kids and grandkids and their grandkids) best interest to do what you can to decrease your output where you can, mitigate what you cannot decrease, and to put pressure on all your elected officials so that they will do the same and make it economically viable.

Things I do: (not that I am special or anything, just examples of easy changes we all can make) All lights in my house except for a couple of specialty lamps are CFLs. I no longer drive my 55 mile daily commute, I use public transit. When I do drive it's not the jeep, It's a Honda Civic. Installed a solar water heater, Planted deciduous trees to shade the house in summer, and still expose it to sunlight in the winter. Whole house fan to blow hot air out before running the AC in the summer. Completely sealed the rafters with Reflectix last year(My heating bills are definitely down by 10 or 15% in the short term.)

Ok folks end rant...

---

You want some legitimate scientists that debunk co2 global warming here you go…

http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/e10...php?content.22

Sorry, Roy Spencer is not a legitimate Climatologist... No creds in climatology at all. He's a meteorologist that studies and designs sensors. Not only that but he runs a think tank funded by Exxon mobil. Don't give me Ball either. Both are so tainted by the political brush as to be worthless. The fact of the matter is the legitimate ones are all "bet hedgers" because if they speak out in the media they are called sensationalists and become Pariahs in the scientific community. I know this because I work with scientists every day, and a more conservative group is hard to find. Believe me when I say they want to check for EVERY variable...

Look, I don't really care if any of you want to stick your head in the sand, that's your business. But the fact remains that global warming is real, we don't even begin to know how the planet is truly going to react the the massive amounts of excess carbon we have been dumping into the atmosphere for the last 150 years. We do know that all the negative feedback loops that keep in balance the natural heating and cooling cycles are already overwhelmed though, which means that if we don't get a handle on our emissions, all bets are off...

And those of you that live in low lying territory may want to consider stilts.