Group Survival 101.

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Originally Posted by Sarge47

Okay, here's some stuff to chew on. 1st, I only used the $1000 knife because the respondant in the post he mentioned it mentioned also "pride of ownership."
I believe that I could be lost in the woods with any or all of this group and we would have enough knives, guns, poison darts and machetes to scare off Osama Bin Laden! I used the knife because it was an easy thing to grab on to to demonstrate what has certainly proven itself here, that just about everyone here, while certainly qualified enough on a solo jaunt in the woods, might find difficulty in accepting authority! Yet, in order to survive, you just might have to do that! If I had both the mindset and the $$$ to purchase a $!000 knife, and the leader of the group told me that, for whatever reason, I had to give the knife up to save someone else's life, even someone who was totally unpopular along with the fact that I'd never see the knife again I'd do it without grumbling...much. What's a human life worth? Less than a $1000? Nonsense! I'll bill 'em later & buy a nicer one, but if I saved a life in the meantime...well that's what survival is all about, isn't it? Saving lives. Now please comment, especially some of you lurkers!:rolleyes:

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If it would save someone’s life I would give my knife up without having to be asked. I would have a hard time accepting authority if I didn’t trust them. I don’t consider my self a large group person, I do prefer to have the company of 1 or 2 people so I don’t conceder my self a loner either. There’s no intimacy in a large group, its just a mass. Outside of my family I don’t usually seek out the company of a group. My closest friends are my family including my cousins. If I was in a survival situation I would trust them completely. I have a couple friend (2 or 3) outside my family that I do seek the company of and that’s plenty enough for me. As far as the rest of the public goes well they accept me but I don’t feel at home with them. If I was in a really large survival group I might seek out a couple other people to partner up with to watch each others backs. Although I realize that could turn bad if I wasn’t careful, people might think we’re alienating ourselves from the rest of the group and become suspicious.

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Originally Posted by volwest

Through out history we find such individuals that have had "the gift", and charisma has fallen into the realm of mystery. Charismatic people are everywhere, but often time, because of conditioning, or outside pressure, they were not given the opportunity to express this side of themselves...and this natural leadership mystery, stays locked in a box we call, personality.

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I think we have different definitions of personality, isn’t charisma part of your personality?

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Originally Posted by owl_girl

If it would save someone’s life I would give my knife up without having to be asked. I would have a hard time accepting authority if I didn’t trust them. I don’t consider my self a large group person, I do prefer to have the company of 1 or 2 people so I don’t conceder my self a loner either. There’s no intimacy in a large group, its just a mass. Outside of my family I don’t usually seek out the company of a group. My closest friends are my family including my cousins. If I was in a survival situation I would trust them completely. I have a couple friend (2 or 3) outside my family that I do seek the company of and that’s plenty enough for me. As far as the rest of the public goes well they accept me but I don’t feel at home with them. If I was in a really large survival group I might seek out a couple other people to partner up with to watch each others backs. Although I realize that could turn bad if I wasn’t careful, people might think we’re alienating ourselves from the rest of the group and become suspicious.

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You hit the nail right on the head, Owl Girl! If you were in a "large group of people you did not know you might have to respect the authority of that group. A good example is the Military. There are Officers who shouldn't be there and could cost lives. However they are not accountable to the group.
Here are some "Key Words": "Authority. Accountability. Team. Teamwork." How would you define these terms and how do you think they might apply?:confused:

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Originally Posted by volwest

lol...I am sure we have different definitions of personality.

Where can you observe charisma out of those 3 domains ?
-personality
-temperament
-energetic nature

The energetic nature, is in my opinion, the subtile foundation that establishes, no matter our awareness of the subject, our true way of communicating with the world. But we have to understand that it is an emanation and not psychology, therefore, any living being would perceive us (independently of his mind, but in his body) in a specific "mode".

It is part of it because it affects it, but it is not created by it. Our personality is not the source of charisma...i do note that personality can smother charisma...i.e. the box.

Do you watch the show "lost" ?
If you don't, there is in it a perfect example of smothered charisma by personality in the character of "jack", the natural born leader, that does not accept his role, his nature.
Actually the show is a gold mine for survival/group insights...and the theoretical philosophical approach to natures.

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I see…I think. I’ve seen lost a couple of times but I don’t usually watch it.

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Originally Posted by Sarge47

You hit the nail right on the head, Owl Girl! If you were in a "large group of people you did not know you might have to respect the authority of that group. A good example is the Military. There are Officers who shouldn't be there and could cost lives. However they are not accountable to the group.
Here are some "Key Words": "Authority. Accountability. Team. Teamwork." How would you define these terms and how do you think they might apply?:confused:

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If someone has authority over me then they have the ability to make decisions above my own, accountability, kind of like responsibility, team a group of people that come together to use each other and work together to accomplish the same goal, teamwork when a group is working together efficiently. Don’t know if that’s what your looking for.:confused:

conditioning is definetley a good adjuctive for it also volwest,you see i do not think of myself as the deep thinker that you and the sarge seem to be, i go more on instinct. in the group dynamic that we are talking about with the idea of giving up a 1000 dollar knife to save a life, first thing i'm going to think is how is this going to effect me and mine. selfish maybe but honest.

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Originally Posted by volwest

Trax,

It simply means that what seems obvious is often time not.
I was referring to Sarge's comment about saving lives...

This is about acting instead of re-acting. That is all i talk about in every post. If you stop to help because of all the inventory you have gathered over the years, it is no longer "a choice", an action, it is simply a reaction...and this reaction will haunt you.

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"First you must unlearn all that you have learned" wasn't that Yoda to Luke Skywalker?

"There is do and there is do not, there is not try" same two conversationalists.

So, isn't the inventory we've gathered over all those years conditioning? It's pretty hard for most people to get past that. Personally, I try to make a decision in any situation that I believe is right for that moment or situation. Of course, I can't avoid totally letting previous conditioning and/or training influence me, whether it's something my parents taught me or CPR or the Golden Rule or Murphy's Law, lol. Oddly enough, in several "crisis" situations I've been in, I've simply gone ahead and done what I thought was the right thing, much to the chagrin of the supposed "leaders" and the things I've done have always worked out well for myself and those around me. Authorities however, often seem more concerned with people adhering to their process than in the results people might achieve on their own, no matter how positive.

wareagle,

That $1000 knife is worthless if it isnt used for the good of everyone,and who knows it may just be you or a member of yours that it may be saving,if not this time then maybe the next time. After all in a true survival situation,money is itself probably going to be worthless,which would make the value of the knife nothing if not used to help when it is needed.

Not trying to start an argument just offering my opinion here.If it was my knife and it was the only thing we had that could save your life,I'd give it up in a heartbeat.

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Originally Posted by nell67

wareagle,
After all in a true survival situation,money is itself probably going to be worthless,which would make the value of the knife nothing if not used to help when it is needed.

...but, but it's his knife....probably his Bear Gryll's autographed one:) Actually I thought that was brilliant Nell.

Not trying to start an argument just offering my opinion here.If it was my knife and it was the only thing we had that could save your life,I'd give it up in a heartbeat.

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yes, you are..you're trying to start something....come on now, admit it...don't worry wareagle's a big boy he can take it :D :D

nah not really trying to start anything ,just trying to get some to think about what is more valueable,a life,or money spent on a knife that could be used to save that life,you can carry it around every day of your life,but it has no value whatsoever just hanging there on your side,you gotta use it to realize the true value in it.Personally,I would not spend a dime on anything that I could not or would not use,and using it to save one or all members of a group just increased its value. I do not put value on things,I put value on the lives around me.


Ok maybe I am trying to start something....

as a matter of fact i got it last week when i graduated from bears school i was his top student.

nell i do not perceive this as an attack, i understand everyones thinking about saving a life and the good of the group, but how is giving up a knife going to save a life? are we bartering with hostile forces in that case i will not surrender a weapon, maybe i do not understand where this whole idea came from but before i turn over anything to anyone i will consider how it will efeect myself and the ppl i am reponsible for if someone else has to die but the ppl i am protecting live, well i shrug my shoulders with indiference.

no not a personal attack hun, say someone in our group was being attacked by.... a bear..and all the yelling and hitting with whatever we could get our hands on has done nothing to stop the monster from its attack,the only thing left is..."the knife".... would you use that knife to stab the bear even though you might not kill it, but it does cause the bear to retreat and possibly take the knife with it into the woods,we might or might not find the bear later dead and you recover the knife,or the bear may not die at all and the knife is lost....would you?

I know this is pretty much an unrealistic scenerio(in my area anyways),but it just popped into my head since you mentioned Bear Grylls,LOL just a whatif

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Originally Posted by wareagle69

as a matter of fact i got it last week when i graduated from bears school i was his top student.

nell i do not perceive this as an attack, i understand everyones thinking about saving a life and the good of the group, but how is giving up a knife going to save a life? are we bartering with hostile forces in that case i will not surrender a weapon, maybe i do not understand where this whole idea came from but before i turn over anything to anyone i will consider how it will efeect myself and the ppl i am reponsible for if someone else has to die but the ppl i am protecting live, well i shrug my shoulders with indiference.

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Okay guys, here's what I'm saying: Wareagle's right, the knife was not the issue, pride in personal possesions over the greater good of the group was the point. In every evaluation, weather or not your evaluating yourself alone or with others you need to search out your weaknesses and find ways to strengthen them. Only then will you become the true survivor, hopefully. My perception of the Wolf Pack is that it is growing in knowledge, skills & equipment. I would "ride the river" with any one of you. However their is a weakness in this group when it comes to authority, trust, and teamwork. That is very understandable, after all we really don't know one another save for this forum. How does anyone know that they can truly trust anyone else?
The clue was in the Keyword: "Accountability". The group giveth, the group can taketh away. The reason many of you struggle with this is that your not partial to big groups. Can't blame you as neither am I. I do like to think, however, if it would keep everybody alive that I would follow instructions. If I think that doing so is going to be a problem I'll 1st bring it up before the group and hopefully get them to agree. If they do there'll be a new sheriff in town, if not it's back to the drawing board. But trust me on this, in a survival situation nobody's going to have time to worry about politics too much.:rolleyes:

wouldn't need to nell, allot of ppl here seem to be dangerous and can hunt anything or throw poison darts or even lightning bolts from their arses or cast magic spells so i would feel perfectly safe.

lightening bolts?? I missed that post LOL

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Originally Posted by wareagle69

wouldn't need to nell, allot of ppl here seem to be dangerous and can hunt anything or throw poison darts or even lightning bolts from their arses or cast magic spells so i would feel perfectly safe.

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Not too sure I'd feel perfectly safe with someone shooting lightning bolts from their arses....

i think you both understand the deeper meaning of my sarcasm.

So we have a group of people, one knife, and a bear.

Who's going to run up to the bear and stick it in? You're going to loose the knife and maybe your life.

I would think that if there was one knife, say 5 / 6 people, one of those people would have the insite when they take stock of their equipment, to make 6 spears. Real easy, whittle down to a point and wow you're done. 6 spears poking a bear, bear just might get a diff. idea for lunch.

Really depends, if the person who gets attacked by the bear, was he doing something stupid? will engaging the bear bring harm to the rest of the group?

Are you really bad enough to take on a bear, well maybe if you have a $1000.00 knife. Reminds me of an Lt in Panama, he had a big knife. He wasn't worth a pot to piss in.

Personally, don't give up my Kabar. I'll make you spears, cut down some bamboo and make kick arse knives for you. If you want to take my knife, ya gonna get cut.

Honestly, after I go through all the scenarios in that split second while a team member is getting attacked by a bear, I'll stick the freak'n bear, and I'll die.



...and killed the bear that killed me.



Anyway, l am dead.

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Originally Posted by Sarge47

Okay, here's some stuff to chew on. 1st, I only used the $1000 knife because the respondant in the post he mentioned it mentioned also "pride of ownership."
I believe that I could be lost in the woods with any or all of this group and we would have enough knives, guns, poison darts and machetes to scare off Osama Bin Laden! I used the knife because it was an easy thing to grab on to to demonstrate what has certainly proven itself here, that just about everyone here, while certainly qualified enough on a solo jaunt in the woods, might find difficulty in accepting authority! Yet, in order to survive, you just might have to do that! If I had both the mindset and the $$$ to purchase a $!000 knife, and the leader of the group told me that, for whatever reason, I had to give the knife up to save someone else's life, even someone who was totally unpopular along with the fact that I'd never see the knife again I'd do it without grumbling...much. What's a human life worth? Less than a $1000? Nonsense! I'll bill 'em later & buy a nicer one, but if I saved a life in the meantime...well that's what survival is all about, isn't it? Saving lives. Now please comment, especially some of you lurkers!:rolleyes:

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Ok sarge, you asked for it! lol

Having to GIVE UP your knife for good to save someone would be an incredibly extreme case, I can only think of one reason you would have to give up your knife for someone else (even reading about the bear scenario) and that's when someone with a gun is making you give them ALL of your stuff or they will kill members of the group. In any other circumstance You will be able to reclaim it or be the one to use it.

Survival isn't about saving lives, rescue is about saving lives. What's the point of just 'surviving'? One person can live out their days alone but without others, or being able to pass on your knowledge to help others there is no point.

Example; There was a guy who decided to live off the land by himself so he got a rifle and his camping gear and left for the woods. He lived well for a while hunting from an old abandoned bus he found. He ultimately did a few things wrong, and ended up dying, but before he did he wrote in his journal about sharing. That life itself was worthless without someone to share it with, even our lone wolves are married!

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Originally Posted by Sarge47

Okay guys, here's what I'm saying: Wareagle's right, the knife was not the issue, pride in personal possesions over the greater good of the group was the point.

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I agree with wareagle in a different way, the knife was never gonna be an issue over the greater good of the group without someone blabbing to a strange possible armed and dangerous person about this bagileon dollar knife that could part a mountain and catch your food for you and make rain fall out of the moon on demand.