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FYI......SOM ....
http://www.eoearth.org/view/article/156087/
I guess I would have never given it a thought....carbon content of soil....and have no clue if it would effect filtering properties.
As far as a field expedient process....would not be on my list of things to try.
Have to believe you need a large quantity of water to even make it thru a filter as a lot gets trapped in the media.
Collect, filter thru T shirt, and boil........
If that's the only option I go for it. Thankfully there are lots of water sources around me, but if that's all we had I'd definitely do it.
I'm not 100% sure I understood your comment above right... but if you are saying the eastern part of the country is a cake walk to survive in, you must have very limited experience about the challenge of survival here or been here in the wrong times of the year..Quote:
Originally Posted by TXyakr
That same water you really wish you had in the west will kill you here and will do it faster than one could image.. Snow, freezing rain, cold temperatures as low as 20 below was seen some mornings this winter.. The threats may be different, but they are just as dangerous..
Yeah, well don't take it too serious....I don't.....kinda a tendency to ramble on from time to time.Quote:
Originally Posted by riffecreek
From time to time????
LOL I don't take anything too serous on the net! I was simply pointing out that some water is good when you need a drink.. too much water in lower temps is just as dangerous..Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter63
If you get enough water at low temperatures for a long enough time.......You can drive on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by riffecreek
They don't carry ice fishing gear in the Bossier City, La, Base Pro Store.....Just saying.
Ok, there it is, at hunter63's link (thanks). I did some quick looking, but either didn't come across this or didn't catch it. So, for anyone curious about this, the answer to my question may be clay...it says this -
"Soil texture affects SOC because of the stabilizing properties that clay has on organic matter. Organic matter can be trapped in the very small spaces between clay particles making them inaccessible to micro-organisms and therefore slowing decomposition. In addition, clay offers chemical protection to organic matter through adsorption onto clay surfaces, which again prevents organic matter from being decomposed by bacteria. Soils with high clay content therefore tend to have higher SOC than soils with low clay content under similar land use and climate conditions. Climate affects SOC amount as it is a major determinant of the rate of decomposition and therefore the turnover time of C in soils. In a temperate grassland, high organic matter inputs combined with slow decomposition rates (determined by climate) lead to high SOC amounts, whereas in tropical areas, decomposition and the turnover of SOC tend to be faster. The content of SOC in soils ranges from less than 1% in sandy soils to almost 100% in wetland soils."
Of course, while this may be a relative difference...clayish soil treating water better than non-clayish (because of more organic-matter-derived-carbon-particulate)...I don't know if this means that it really treats water all that much - though one does more than the other, it might not make much more of a difference than otherwise. And on top of that, like what has been mentioned by others, I always wonder about what you're leaching out of soils and into your water while filtering some things out of the water and into the soil.
And using washed sand to filter water through seems like a catch-22 dilemma to me also.
There is a huge difference between filtering water and purifying it. You filter water to remove debris. You purify it to remove oocysts and other infectious agents. The sand and soil you are using also contains infectious agents and filtering with dirt and sand will not remove. My luck, a whole community of giardia would live in the last 2 cm of the sand filter.
Like I said.....Collet,....Filter thru T shirt to get the big stuff out, ....boil.....
Do carry a straw filter.
No kidding cold can kill a person faster than the lack of water in many situations but this particular thread was about purifying water in a tarp if you had no better container. Obvious assumption it was not raining or about to.Quote:
Originally Posted by riffecreek
My point about a pre filter before boiling water is that in many situations I have been in the water is very silty or has some nasty organic compounds in it like dead animals, feces etc or just rotting plants. If your end product, the boiled water, tasted better most people will drink more of it. Personally I have seen people who were close to dehydration or would be in a few hours turn down water because they did not like the taste or even because it was not cool. Can't fix stupid.
I'm not saying that camping in any region proves that you are a better survivalist than others but you do learn to be more adaptable by traveling to different regions. Some days or weeks in the high desert of the Western USA CAN be total cake walk. It all depends on the weather, time of year what gear you have etc.
No need to over read into what someone wrote. I have dealt with floods as well and abandoned gear to save my life, floods happen much faster in the desert. Probably more people die of floods in the desert than from heat. Also more from overnight cold than from daytime heat in the desert.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
...yea, I would always boil no matter what. Any filtering is in addition to, not instead of.
...well, actually, I personally love the idea of distillation. I think that's even better. But you need to have or craft a little more equipment for distillation, and since boiling can usually be quite good enough, distillation may seem a bit unnecessary. However, I still prefer distillation anyway and will expend the extra effort for it whenever I can. One reason though is because my philosophy is that there is no plan B - plan A is prevention (not literally, but as a good way to approach things). Try very hard to not let an injury happen in the first place...Don't get sick in the first place...Don't cut any corners on food or water at all if possible. So, for that little bit of extra safety accumulated over a long run, I like the idea of distillation after filtering over filtering and boiling. As long as I have the stuff to do it with (Doesn't really take much though, isn't that much more trouble.) But depending upon your distillation method, you can lose some of your water, so you'd do that if you have a good supply of raw water.
Some pics of your distillation system would be helpful.
I would like to see that as well.......
How big is it?..... what is the capacity...How do you carry it?
I was wrong about weather related cold killing more than heat in the USA. According to per year average from 2005-2015 from NWS:
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/hazstats.shtml
Flooding 71
Heat 124
Cold 29
Winter 27
So if I must use part of my tarp to boil water and that will help me deal with Heat due to no rain for days, and there were not other reasonable options I would. I.e. most fluids from plants do you more harm than good unless you really know your plants!
Climbing out of low laying areas or bottom land if that is an option is generally a good idea, especially if you hear or see storm clouds higher up in the watershed. I have had a hard time convincing some fellow campers of this in the past and wasted my time doing so running around yelling at ignorant slow learners instead of packing my gear. In a desert the rain could be 50 miles away and still kill you very fast over night. A landslide caused by flash flooding in the high desert mountains killed some good friends of mine. Sorry I ramble if this does not interest you no one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to read it. Just walk on by...
If you are on a raft in the middle of saltwater or there are miles of sand in all directions distillation maybe your only viable option. But try this out in you own backyard or at a campground. It is extremely ineffective ether with a fire or solar. If you know your plants and find some leaves that are non-toxic putting them in a large plastic bag (clear or not) or wrapping in water tight tarp and solarizing for hours might give you more water (a tablespoon per gallon or cubic foot if you are super lucky). This is obviously assuming you could find absolutely no fresh (non-brackish) water and obviously it had not been raining. May be best to collect leaves at first light in the morning and get as much dew as possible. Go to some marine supply sites and see how many of those passive units are required to sustain just one person, then you need to set them up just right have great sun. This or with a fuel/fire can work but once you actually try it like me you may find it is extremely difficult to live off especially in a hot, dry climate.
If you have a sophisticated fuel fire distiller and plenty of fuel that is great, no need to tend to fire. Hauling water or going to look for it may have been a better option in the first place. Rarely does a McGyvered system work effectively. But make one and show us, then haul it with you... or find those parts where you are surviving at.
This has been my method for years, hasn't failed me yet. Although I do pass on water that appears like it may contain chemicals because cloth filter won't do much for that and neither will the boiling.Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter63
As far as rock boiling in a tarp, I wouldn't hesitate to do so in a survival situation. Especially with a tarp in decent shape. I know they breakdown with time (mostly due to UV) and have a clear coat that flakes off. If it is flaking I wouldn't do it and try for another viable option. Chances are you will seek medical attention after a survival situation anyway so mention it to them then. If you don't drink water, you won't make it there in the first place.
Today is the first day in 42 days here in the North Texas, DFW area that a Tarp many actually be useful in collecting rainwater not just boiling it. 60% chance of rain predicted and there were a few sprinkles just now. Setting out a tarp and bucket, yahoo!!!
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/fwd/?n=dnorain
Previous recent historical record was 55 days from Jul 30 - Sep 22, 2000
Rough times for backpackers far from a creek or river after an evil raccoon ran off with their cook pot, while they were dropping solid human waste or something... you can never be too careful. LOL
But then the folks in Calif, Nevada, Idaho have it FAR, FAR worse. So I am not complaining only commenting that a truly wise person learns to improvise and think of alternatives just in case the SHTF.
Now there is a story about a guy in the wilderness of Palestine 2000+ years ago who went for 40 days and nights without taking any food or water with him but I assume he found some locust along the way and avoided death by eating those, but probably lost a lot of weight...
Edit: My oldest vehicle would not start, checked the battery was low about 10 Volts, purchased battery August 2011. So put on a slow charger, even a tightwad like me must admit that it might be time to buy a new one or I could be stuck in the wilderness on my next campout improvising multiple ways to purify water such as boiling mud-puddle water in a tarp to get by as I hiked out of there... So much for 5 year car batteries in 100+F summer temperatures... ha ha ha... Now I just hope it does not rain on my charger before I can get it's charge up enough to drive it over to buy a new battery, minor inconvenience. Hey I'll use a tarp for that! ;-)
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