Mega Drought to Hit U.S.

LowKey and Rick make good points. Humans, for the most part, are a highly adaptable species and can generally figure out how to deal with each new crisis in an effective way. I don't personally care for some "low flow" shower heads and toilets. Once when my family and another were sharing a small 1 bathroom hunting cabin at a friend's SW Texas ranch. The friend's wife heard the shower go on and off several times as I as washing up and commented. Heck I only run water when I actually need it. Doesn't everyone? Toilet: "if its yellow let it mellow, if its brown flush it down", Please!!! LOL Common sense. Occasionally I just go down to the river and bathe there even in winter when temps are about 30-40F but I dry off fast, shrinkage is embarrassing. ha ha ha cows and goats mostly just ignore me, I don't stare at them either.

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Originally Posted by hayshaker

because of mans over consumption of water that entire region will be reclaimed by nature in less than a hundred years.
ditto for the entire north to south strech of land that lies above the ogalala auqifer. that damm dryland farming did it . all those towns
that sprung up in the 18,00,s to settle that region to farm will all disapear.

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Yep, this is not what one could call a "natural landscape"

http://water.usgs.gov/edu/gallery/wu...ot-aerial.html

I is amazing how much water can be saved............ if you have to carry it.

Early on, "The Place" used a sawdust toilet (worked well).....and 5 gal water bottles filled at the local city park, 5 miles away.

Added a "solar shower"....started with the black shower bag, (heavy), to old water heater tank in black box and black hose on roof, circulated with a 12 volt pump.

Ended up with a Zolar propane water heater.....the added a 50 gal drum....then second drum with water catchment for gutters and down spouts.
Propane heater was a PITA as water had to circulate or it would over heat.........so shower may be really hot, to warm to just right....

Added a 2-1/2 gal electric water heater, (yes had electric).....used the 50 gal drums, and sprayer 12 pump.....Hot shower on demand.

Now you spoke of other using it?....Well, many visitors like long hot showers.......we sent tem to town to the park public shower, or truck stop $4 bucks.......

Take as long of shower as you want.....BUT you only have 2-1/2 gal of hot water.

With that 2-1/2 gal of hot water....it was....wet down, shut off.....soap up...shut off, rinse....shut off.
Hair washing was a separate event for those long haired ladies.

The rain water was "soft" and really cleaned....and we didn't have to carry "wash water" any longer.

The state approved well, bury tank, and septic system was in the $11K range....and worth every penny.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...m/PICT0082.jpg

As any "true historian" who has actually read much history knows many of the large influx of people to California after 1849, stayed for the great agriculture and commerce. Since then CA has become a much larger contributor to the nation's food supply than any state on or near the East Coast these numbers are available from highly reliable sources for you to look up and compare for the last 50-100 years. I not only know my history and facts but I can back up every statement I make.

"By 1850 California agriculture was dominated by wheat. In 1870 California was the nation’s second largest wheat producer." There was a glut in Wheat the price dropped and.. "Many wheat growers sold their land to farmers who wanted to grow specialty crops such as oranges and lemons." http://www.dof.ca.gov/HTML/FS_DATA/H.../gold_rush.htm
Also many other crops like rice, strawberries, vegetables, produced in CA feed the nation to much larger extent than any state with the possible exception of Florida. So the effective use of water in CA is VERY important to Human Survival in the USA. This is just common sense, rational thinking based on facts that people who read all understand.

"California remained the number one state in cash farm receipts with 11.3 percent of the US total. The state accounted for 15 percent of national receipts for crops and 7.1 percent of the US revenue for livestock and livestock products."
http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/statistics/

If you want I could provide actual facts about grain production in the Mid-West and beef production in Texas and how drought has effected the cost of living in the USA and the "intelligent" science based methods being used to adjust for drought. But I will not suggest emotional ideas by self proclaimed "historians" who do not offer evidence to back up their statements. That is just NOT me.

A report issued by USDA Feb 14, 2014:
http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/usda...02-14-2014.pdf

Total value of principal crops per state in 2011:

California $26,636,423
Iowa $21,075,783
Florida $4,851,935
Texas $4,927,325

Kentucky $2,905,725 including tobacco production $332,993 good barter item but not wise to eat it.

So y'all decide which states actually have a proven record of "feeding the nation" and the world?

California and Iowa and other Mid-West States mostly just need to continue on with the progress they have already made with growing food with less water. This makes sense to me. There are several excellent articles posted online about this. Also many good continuing education classes you can take online or in person around the country if this is of interest to you.

I did some gardening in the San Jacinto mountains of California one summer. Just my personal opinion but raising food in rocky mountain soil is not a great way to feed your family. YMMV (Your Milage May Vary).

"Bottom land" is excellent for food production but if global climate change is for real (it appears to be), this means dramatic weather events will lead to more flooding in these rich farming areas and thus crop failures and some loss of life. All across the world not just in USA or isolated areas. But here is one of hundreds of articles to show the cost in insurance $.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news...hikes/6818251/

Evidence or facts should not offend anyone, I certainly do not take it as an insult when someone challenges me to back up anything I have said. But I was trained and educated by very scientifically minded people.

I am only attempting to organize my thoughts and provide evidence in an insightful manner, as I was trained to do. If I had not done so I would not have made it very far in presenting business proposals and winning contracts.

Oh, crap....here we go again.....

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Originally Posted by hunter63

Oh, crap....here we go again.....

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Two posts together can only mean one thing, more insults and the puking of irrelevant crap.

I'll never know. He's just a white ribbon on my screen.

This article about global per capital food production and how it is keeping up is interesting:

http://www.fao.org/docrep/015/i2490e/i2490e03a.pdf

Speaks to issues of drought but flooding should also be considered, a corn framer friend of mine in Iowa I have know for over 40 years told me that strong rainstorms that dump lots of water over a short period of time do almost as much damage to his production as long periods of drought. I have only grown a few acres of corn but understand how that is possible. Global or regional climate changed caused by whatever, does seem to cause less regular light rain patterns and more heavy or sever storms about every year or so that were once every 5-20 years. Thus more crop failures, and higher cost of food for everyone.

"The availability of freshwater resources shows a very similar picture to that of land availability. Sufficient re- sources are unevenly distributed at the global level, and an increasing number of countries or parts of countries are reaching alarming levels of water scarcity, especially in the Near East, North Africa and in South Asia. A mit- igating factor could be increasing water use efficiency, such as providing the right incentives to use less water.
Fears that yields are reaching a plateau do not seem war- ranted. The potential to increase crop yields (even with existing technology) is considerable. Provided the ap- propriate socio-economic incentives are in place, there are still bridgeable yield gaps – the differences between agro-ecologically attainable and actual yields – to be ex- plotted."

If you read this annual report from "Freedom House" you may see that in an indirect way higher global food prices result in a less politically stable world and thus less freedom and worries about SHTF or whatever you prefer to call it.

https://freedomhouse.org/report/free...5#.VODslTptnFI

Sorry for this lengthy comment, I'm trying not to upset folks who wish to censure out all views that do not align with their own narrow view of the world, by limiting the number of my comments. Hopefully some are a least a little insightful to a few people.

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Originally Posted by TXyakr

Sorry for this lengthy comment, I'm trying not to upset folks who wish to censure out all views that do not align with their own narrow view of the world, by limiting the number of my comments.

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Well, at least you sort of kind of (not really) apologized to many, many folks that you were about to piss off. This part especially

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who wish to censure out all views that do not align with their own

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is pretty much the pot calling the kettle black don't you think?

I welcome all views on all topics. But if I ever make an statement that insults millions of people living in a state or entire region that has limited freshwater resource and imply that they should not live there, I certainly hope someone calls me out on it and asks me to provide documented evidence. The most agriculturally productive regions of the USA, North America and the world have issues with extended periods of drought that is a very well established fact. But to insult the people living there by suggesting that they should not!!!! What the hey?

Provide some evidence?

Where do Idaho farmers get their water TXyakr?

I was under the impression it was piped in from else where.

I think it was "Botany of Desire" by Michael Pollan that addressed the issues of just growing Russet Potatoes on the edge of a desert.

hey batch at least they let you have your say,hmmmmmmmm i was not able to post about the global warming fraud.

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Originally Posted by hayshaker

hey batch at least they let you have your say,hmmmmmmmm i was not able to post about the global warming fraud.

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You can post about anything you want as long as it doesn't violate forum rules. Posting your thoughts on global warming do not violate forum rules. There may be those that disagree with you, but that is called discussion.

Your inability to operate your phone to post long posts does not mean there is a conspiracy against you. It seems to be a theme that you keep going back to, and it just isn't true.

Holey crap. Nonsense and conspiracies. Can you say train wreck? I knew you could.

Actually I think the cat's out of the bag gents. It looks like we'll have to perpetrate the global warming hoax from my treehouse from now on.

allright i get it i,ll leave it alone it,s not a conspiracy it my poor computer skills.

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Originally Posted by hunter63

I is amazing how much water can be saved............ if you have to carry it.

Early on, "The Place" used a sawdust toilet (worked well).....and 5 gal water bottles filled at the local city park, 5 miles away.

Added a "solar shower"....started with the black shower bag, (heavy), to old water heater tank in black box and black hose on roof, circulated with a 12 volt pump.

Ended up with a Zolar propane water heater.....the added a 50 gal drum....then second drum with water catchment for gutters and down spouts.
Propane heater was a PITA as water had to circulate or it would over heat.........so shower may be really hot, to warm to just right....

Added a 2-1/2 gal electric water heater, (yes had electric).....used the 50 gal drums, and sprayer 12 pump.....Hot shower on demand.

Now you spoke of other using it?....Well, many visitors like long hot showers.......we sent tem to town to the park public shower, or truck stop $4 bucks.......

Take as long of shower as you want.....BUT you only have 2-1/2 gal of hot water.

With that 2-1/2 gal of hot water....it was....wet down, shut off.....soap up...shut off, rinse....shut off.
Hair washing was a separate event for those long haired ladies.

The rain water was "soft" and really cleaned....and we didn't have to carry "wash water" any longer.

The state approved well, bury tank, and septic system was in the $11K range....and worth every penny.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...m/PICT0082.jpg

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That looks like a great system Hunter!

I admit I was skeptical about 10+ years ago when some "Master Gardeners" and others from east of the I-35 and I-45 in Texas from Houston, Austin, to DFW first started to use rain barrels. I had the narrow view that they only made sense out west. But you are correct a system of rain water collection and solar roof top heating can work just about anywhere. There are many great filter ideas online. Many years ago I had mostly just seen systems used for livestock and wildlife but today there are many variations use by people all across the world and from coast to coast in this country. Here is one of many sources of info, but your state's local extension office is also very good.

http://www.harvestingrainwater.com

Happy productive Californian cows learning to live in a dry region:

"As of early-September 2014, 83 percent of cattle in California were located in areas with exceptional drought (category D4)… California leads the nation in dairy production, producing 21 percent of the Nation’s milk. second to Wisconsin in cheese production. Livestock and livestock products play an important role in California agriculture, contributing to just over a quarter of the value of agricultural production in the State. Cash receipts for livestock products totaled $12.1 billion in 2012, or just over 7 percent of total U.S. livestock cash receipts. This value consists mostly of dairy, cattle and calf, chicken, and egg production"

Source USDA:
http://ers.usda.gov/topics/in-the-ne...y-sectors.aspx

So THAT'S what I smelled as I rode my motorcycle through CA… dry, but happy dairy cows..

In Canada check out Chilliwack, British Columbia. My Grandmother lived there for many years. Her roses grew great but WOW did those dairy lots smell strong! LOL

As a child many of my father's friends and relatives were in the dairy industry I learned a bit from him and them. Americans consume a lot of dairy products so if a mega drought does hit and persist for a long time our cost of living will go up.

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Originally Posted by Batch

Where do Idaho farmers get their water TXyakr?

I was under the impression it was piped in from else where.

I think it was "Botany of Desire" by Michael Pollan that addressed the issues of just growing Russet Potatoes on the edge of a desert.

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Very good point Batch! I also found this website www idaho potato dot com

History of the Snake River Land Rush after an Aristocrat in Burlap introduced the pivot irrigation system at the end of those pipes in the "desert".

I don't know "Jack Squat" about Idaho potatoes and prefer to grow sweet potatoes but these are very interesting stories to read.

http://www.idahopotato.com/?page=ari..._popup=1&id=95

So I guess one man's worthless desert is another's bread basket, or basket of fries or a loaded tater with butter and cheese, LOL

TXyakr posted .... http://www.idahopotato.com/?page=ari..._popup=1&id=95

TXyakr, thanks for that very interesting article. I knew bits and pieces of it as my cousin was very high up in the Bureau of Reclamation. He told me a great deal about water use out here in Idaho and in the West.

It is awe inspiring to drive through all the Idaho high desert areas where vast farms exist and see all the crops growing due to the extensive irrigation methods used. Also to be down on the Snake River and see those huge pumping stations at work. Technology feeds our country and some parts of the world.

S.M.