Primitive/Survival living

karl, welcome

now, i used to live in arizona to me flagstaff is the best way and close to get away . now as a us citizen you are allowed to live in the national forest in one spot for up to 30 days the beuty of flagstaff is that their are two national forests side by each the coconino and the kaibab when i was in my twenties i would live for 3 to 4 months at a time in either location, and rarely if ever see a government official so if they aint seen ya then they dont know how long you have been around and their is lots of water around ya just need to know where to find it, if the shiznit ever hits the fan that is one of my get away spots, of course living in northern ontario im in a good spot

KarlMalone;
Maybe you would like to do a little moving around, like making a run to Alaska on a bike. Take the
Alcan hwy. to point Barrow, to toss a rock in the Artic Ocean.
Wide spots all along the road to toss out your bed roll, excellent fishing all the way what is to want?
Texas ranches has what they call hunting leases or deer leases, you pay about $50 an acher. So you have to bring your water in with you. No season on wild hog, and no bag limit. I would suggest hanging a tarp on tee pee poles rub the meat down in salt and spice hang in the tee pee, and set a small fire to smolder, the idea here is to smoke instead of cook. Set the smoke every day, to help cure, and prevent the bugs from ruining the meat.
Should be plenty to keep you full your time in the back country.
Two ideas, some suggestions. Rusty.

Consider Oregon Or Washington, lots of open forest there

I think there are a lot of keyboard commanders and city dwellers on this site ;) Not that I'm an expert or anything!

Going anywhere trying to live off the land(even if its your own the land) is illegal obviously. The authorities don't want you to live off the land. You'd have to trap meat on a regular basis throughout the year if you really wanted to survive of the land for an extended period of time and that is illegal everywhereThey want you WORKING!! for them and they want to use you to make THEM money. Also, were completely overpopulated the planet so if everyone tried to live off the land(not everyone could own a farm. not enough land) there'd be no animals left very quickly, but obviously almost nobody wants to live off the land anyway, so thats a mute point.

"If your just looking for a forest you can disapear into for a summer, without a vehicle to complicate matters, then there are lots of forests in the west that are both big and remote enough, IF you leave the forest before the fall hunting seasons."

HaHa Almost all hunting takes place less than a mile from a road. A lot of these guys shoot from their trucks!!(illegal, but they do it anyway) Have any of you guys ever actually been in the backcountry out west or in canada? Almost all law enforcement is taken place near the roads and entrances to these national parks and national forests. There enourmous area's!! There's only a few rangers patrolling areas that are hundreds of square miles and almost all the enforcement takes place near the roads and entrances. To give you an example eric rudolph was able to hide out in the smokey mountain national park/nantahala national forest area for 5 YEARS fending off a FEDERAL MAN-HUNT! http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science...ing/index.html

That area in there is not nearly as remote as area's out west or in Canada and gets millions of visitors a year(almost all who stay in campgrounds and never venture into the backcountry and the ones that do stick to the trails). As for gun laws....what do you need a gun for??? Trapping is 1000 times more effective with modern traps like a connibear and real metal snares. Forget all those boy scout traps like a spring snare tied to a tree with a piece of cordage. There mostly ineffective and will never get you the bigger game that you NEED.

"I'm not sure at the moment, however you want to be careful when you do decide to go as the most dangerous enemy out there is your fellow man."

LOL! You have a greater chance of being killed by a bee than being murdered by a person. Oh and the risk of being attacked by animal is real in western canada. Black bears account for a lot of fatalaties in northern remote B.C. Cougar attacks are on the rise because their making a comeback after years of hard hunting pressure. True western canadian wilderness bears WILL prey on you. There a different animal in Canada(where I live) than in the U.S. I know this sounds strange, but I'd rather run into a fed bear than a wilderness bear. Not that feeding bears is a good idea!!!, but Here's a very good link that isn't filled with left wing bear loving propaganda that will explain what I mean. http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/bears/17275/3

I myself would like to try living off the land. I have ALOT to learn and practice though first. I'm a beginner. I was just pointing out some of the reality for ya so that you know what your getting into! You can live off the land with bascially no money. It's been done for thousands of years in north america when there wasn't nearly as many game animals as there are now(lots of transition zones have been created by cutting down tree's, thus creating more habitat for deer). Your best bet in the lower 48 would be anywhere thats' a remote national forest out west. Montana is a good idea, but then you have to deal with the grizzlies. Probably best to avoid them if you can. :) Northern california has some warmer area's if your living year round off the land and you don't like to deal with the extreme cold. There's also huge tracts of wilderness in quebec. There's tons of options, but your going to have to travel!

Here's a full list of national forests in the U.S. "http://gorp.away.com/gorp/resource/us_national_forest/main.htm"

Good luck, Check local game laws. and never take more animals than you need to eat!!!

Oh if you want to stay in the northeast, then northern and western maine is your best bet.

I sure couldn't even read that whole thing, ultraviperman, what big letters you have. It's not illegal to trap where I live,in Manitoba.You write an exam and buy a license, just like for hunting. You can choose your own trapping area if it isn't already taken, or the resource people will assign one. They try to utlize trappers if they think any particular species is beginning to over-populate in a certain area. I think that's the same in the western states, anyway, I know of people trapping in some of those areas.

Ultra-dude, you just asked people what they might need a gun for and then rattled on for five minutes about the possibility of bear attacks in just about every area you mentioned? Alrighty then, throw a trap at it. Canadian and American bears don't carry passports by the way.

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Originally Posted by ultraviperman

I think there are a lot of keyboard commanders and city dwellers on this site

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Even if that's true, it's an insult.

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Originally Posted by ultraviperman

Going anywhere trying to live off the land(even if its your own the land) is illegal obviously.

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Not true. Obey hunting regs and camping regs and it's legal. Most forests in the west let you camp in one spot for 14-28 days. Building shelter is more problematic than working around hunting laws.

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Originally Posted by ultraviperman

You'd have to trap meat on a regular basis throughout the year if you really wanted to survive of the land for an extended period of time and that is illegal everywhere

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Trapping season in Utah runs from October through April, so no you can't survive year round off of trapping, you will also need to hunt with a rifle/shotgun and fish hooks.

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Originally Posted by ultraviperman

HaHa Almost all hunting takes place less than a mile from a road. A lot of these guys shoot from their trucks!!(illegal, but they do it anyway)

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Again, simply not true around these parts. Road hunting happens, but many folks go WAY back into the hills in search of trophy sized deer/elk, they use various means to transport out game: horses, mules, goats, llamas, quads, sleds, and good old fashioned elbow grease.

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Originally Posted by ultraviperman

Have any of you guys ever actually been in the backcountry out west or in canada?

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Forests out west? Extensively. Canada? I'll pass.

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Originally Posted by ultraviperman

Almost all law enforcement is taken place near the roads and entrances to these national parks and national forests. There enourmous area's!! There's only a few rangers patrolling areas that are hundreds of square miles and almost all the enforcement takes place near the roads and entrances.

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Agreed. Which means that a guy living off the land will likely never see a game warden. Around here, the hunting laws are mostly enforced through roadblocks and anonymous tips, two things that a guy way back in the forest probably doesn't have to worry about.

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Originally Posted by ultraviperman

As for gun laws....what do you need a gun for???

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For a while.

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Originally Posted by ultraviperman

LOL! You have a greater chance of being killed by a bee than being murdered by a person.

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Agreed, and don't forget mosquitos. I'll protect myself from all of it, by wearing bug spray, avoiding bees, and carrying a gun for the larger mammals.

Just because Canadians aren't allowed to carry defensive firearms doesn't mean that the rest of the world has no reason, or right to.

Way to go Donny, point by point. Although, passing on some of my country's wilderness areas, you're doing yourself a disservice, but hey, you sound like you're doing ok where you are. I agree 100% with the defensive firearms statement you made. Funny thing, in Canada, our federal police don't have to pass the same exams to carry a firearms as I do. If a cop wants to come to my house and question me about something, how's he going to respond if I'm wearing a sidearm or holding a rifle? and yet, I'm supposed to let him in the door based on the fact that his uniform represents something? The herd mentality makes me shudder.

Good points donny! Uh as for me insulting by calling them city dwellers and stuff. I wasn't insulting them!! Notice I winked after I said that! and then I said I wasn't an expert! :)

trax "It's not illegal to trap where I live,in Manitoba.You write an exam and buy a license, just like for hunting"

Yeah, I meant illegal to trap year round and to snare deer and stuff like that for survival. Snaring deer(the best way to get a lot of meat effeciently) is illegal everywhere. Trapping here in new brunswick is legal too.

"Canadian and American bears don't carry passports by the way."

LMAO. True, but they have distinct genetic differences and differences in their behavoir due to environment. Did you visit this link?
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/bears/17275/3
The statistics are sobering. There has never been a fatality in nova scotia, yet how many fatalities by black bears in northern/central b.c. in an area with way less people? There's only been one fatality in smokey mountain national park in the past 100 years and the have millions of visitors. They average a couple of attacks a year in remote areas of northern b.c. PLEASE read that article. No point in my just typing the same thing here.

Oh and I meant you don't need a gun to survive(ie obtain food). I was unclear there. Sometimes I have trouble conveying ideas through writing. I type fast and don't pay attention that well when I email and go on message boards. I'll try to clearer in the future. Yes obviously it would be an good idea to carry a 12 guage with slugs if your in bear country, though not essential in eastern area's of the U.S. and it would be absolutely essential to carry a shotgun/rifle in B.C.(especially the northern and central area's)

"Agreed. Which means that a guy living off the land will likely never see a game warden. Around here, the hunting laws are mostly enforced through roadblocks and anonymous tips, two things that a guy way back in the forest probably doesn't have to worry about. "

Yes, and they have numerous methods to catch the poachers. Anonymous tips being number one and also when someone's poaching, they have to sell what they poached(like eagle feathers). I don't want to give anything away, but they have ways. They catch more people at the selling end, than anything else. I hate poachers who try to profit off these animals by illegally killing beatiful eagles just for there feathers.

i personally have lived in the national forests of arizona, and barely ever saw a ranger, even if i had seen one and he had noticed that i had been around for more than 28 days he would tell me to move on to the next spot after vacating for 15 days it would be quite legal to come back, what viper dude doesn't realize is that in the us the national forests are own by every us citizen and as long as you dont put up permanate structure you could literaly live your whole life there.

now food is another issue, my philosophy is it aint illeagle if you dont get caught second, is the act immoral,well might not be legal to hunt out of season but it isnt immoral to feed yourself in a survival situation

but now that i live in northern ontario i could just dissapear further up north or even(i shudder to say ) into north qubec


always be prepared

My family has driven from Alaska to the lower 48s 4 times, so I’ve seen a lot of western Canada, lots of wilderness, very pretty, could drive all day and not see another car or person.
In Alaska if you live off the land or if your native you get hunting privileges that you wouldn’t otherwise get, so you could do it and some people do.

Originally Posted by ultraviperman
Going anywhere trying to live off the land(even if its your own the land) is illegal obviously.

Not in Indiana,you do not have to have a license to hunt or trap on your own property.

For me, tresspassing isn't all bad. Most people only put up all those annoying signs on trees if they own a bunch of land. Just a month ago, I camped on two islands, the first owned by a rich guy known to chase off people with an uzi, the second owned by a college for sea turtle research- and other things, of course. (The second one we were forced to because a storm came up and our canoes were stuck in the mud cause the tide went out... as planned) We didn't mess around with anything there, didn't go looking for eggs, we just camped and left. As long as you're careful enough and not caught, then I'd do it.

if u join the special forces u will learn evasion techniques and survival skills, no one will find u, not even those silly park rangers, special forces is serious business

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Originally Posted by trax

Although, passing on some of my country's wilderness areas, you're doing yourself a disservice,

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I have no doubt about that, and I may well eat those words one day when I do a trip up the AlCan highway, I guess I get my dander up a bit when I'm told I don't need a gun, not needing a gun and not being allowed to have one are two different very different things.

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Originally Posted by trax

The herd mentality makes me shudder.

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Ditto.

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Originally Posted by ultraviperman

Uh as for me insulting by calling them city dwellers and stuff. I wasn't insulting them!! Notice I winked after I said that! and then I said I wasn't an expert! :)

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No worries, ultraviperman.:)

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Originally Posted by albanian-american

if u join the special forces u will learn evasion techniques and survival skills, no one will find u, not even those silly park rangers, special forces is serious business

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You wind up dead or maimed in some faraway jungle or desert, probably fighting for someone from Abu Dhubai's right to keep charging what they do for gas or some damn thing. The military has awesome training, and I admire every person that serves their country, but let's not forget that the people who give you that training expect something in return, military service. I've met some tough people in my life, but none of them were bullet proof.

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Originally Posted by donny h

I guess I get my dander up a bit when I'm told I don't need a gun, not needing a gun and not being allowed to have one are two different very different things.



Ditto.

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Personally sir, I wish you'd immigrate, we need more voters telling our federal pols that exact thing.

albanian american

if you sevre in the special forces, you can get some of the best training in the world(if its in the budget) then some dumb *** general uses you as he would basic infantry and you end up dead or with shrapnel in your a**