survival rifles.

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Originally Posted by survivorman.

I whas wondering what rifles everyone had or which one you're planning on getting?

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The one I have: I'd say my 10/22, with a 16" barrel (legal minimum), Choate brand folding stock, and iron ghost-ring hunting sights.

Upsides: Short, durable, carry mucho ammo, accurate and reliable (with factory 10 round mags).
Downsides: Weight. It may be short and scope free, but it still weighs five pounds.

The one I'm getting: Kel-Tec Sub-2000. One great feature of this carbine is that it folds down to 16", daypack size. The other great thing is that there are 3 models to choose from, each accepts pistol mags from different manufacturers, Glock, S&W, Beretta, and Sig.

So, in a daypack, a guy could have a Kel-Tec carbine, a Glock 17 in 9mm, and say a dozen 32 round mags that fit either weapon. A reasonable amount of firepower that's portable and discreet, costing about $1200 ($900 for the guns).

I'd have them in my hands if I could find a local dealer with a decent price on both.

http://www.kel-tec.com/sub2000.html

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Originally Posted by volwest

9mm ?

What would you do with that caliber ?

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Urban survival.

.40 S&W and .45acp are better rounds, but they are a lot heavier, and more expensive.

9mm in a carbine is accurate out to 100 yards, and the rate of fire is impressive due to quick recovery times.

A centerfire rifle would have far greater range, but I question the value of that for urban survival, there's basically no such thing as a 200 yard self defense shot, and such rifles are difficult or impossible to conceal.

Any urban survival gun must be concealable, or it will be taken by law enforcement no matter how legal it is, as we saw in N.O. after Katrina, and in L.A. during the riots.

I have some rifles I could use for home defense, but if I have to travel in a disaster scenario, they will be left behind along with the shotguns and bolt action milsurp rifles. Remember, conceal it or lose it.

Here in Utah there are no gun laws beyond federal law, I could legally buy an AK or AR pistol for urban defense, but a pistol in 7.62x39/.223 is going to be hard to control, hard to be accurate, slow with follow up shots, exceptionally loud, with an absurd muzzle flash, and the ammo is heavy.

Sarge47;
Don't they still make the Universal Arms guns any more, You have a receiver, and as your needs change you change the barrels. The firearm looks like the old breach break single shotgun. It may be worth the investment to have a small calaber, high calaber, and shot gun, all you need do is replace the barrel to fit the gam you are going after.

Thompson still makes those, so does NEF

survivorman,
Back to your original question.
Not trying to pry or be rude, but I seem to recall you saying you're quite young. My question is, what experience do you have with firearms? Because if it's very limited, I'd suggest getting someone qualified to take you out shooting for awhile, you'll learn what you are comfortable with for a firearm, the basics of safety etc and get some experience hitting what you aim at. Again, I don't mean to sound condescending, but these things factor into your final decision, don't go buying something because it looks real cool or macho, buy what works best for you. someone who's posting in here and has been shooting for 30+ years might give you advice based on where they're at, not where you're at, unintentionally of course. I'm sure there's some qualified shooters around and most are more than willing to share their expertise.

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Originally Posted by volwest

My choice for a survival rifle would be one of those...

-Ruger 10/22
5 pounds
36"

-Marlin papoose
4 pounds
35"/20"(folded)

-Browning takedown
37"/19"(folded)

-Henry/Armalite
AR-7
2 1/2 pounds
35"/21"(folded)

Springfield M6 Scout
4 pounds
32"/18"(folded)

A brick of 500 rounds can be purchased for under $25, and will weight 4 1/2 pounds...for the same weight you get about 70 rounds of 30-06.
The fact is, that if i would carry a bigger caliber, and get to take down big game, i wouldn't be able to eat it all, or carry it to store it...etc.

Even though i do not like hand guns, i am now looking for a .22 revolver, it will allow me to feed both hand gun and rifle on the same ammo, reducing the load and components to be carried to support the use of fire arms.

Any thoughts on a good .22 revolver ?

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I don't use a revolver, I have the Ruger Mark II semi-automatic .22 cal pistol with a 10 round clip.I can tell you one thing about Ruger, they back up their warranty in spades!

There are alot of choices in .22 revolvers. Ruger Single-Six is a great one, and you have both .22 lr and .22 mag cylinders. Basicly 2 guns in one.

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Originally Posted by volwest

Any thoughts on a good .22 revolver ?

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You KNOW I do.:)

S&W model 617, 6 or 10-shot revolver with double action, comes in stainless. I wanted one when I got a .22 revolver, but the price was too stiff. Over $500 at the time, now it's closer to $600. If you could find a used 10-shot in stainless, that might be the best way to go.

S&W also has ultra-light revolvers in .22lr, with snubby barrels, they wouldn't be much use for hunting-survival, but they are very comfortable pocket guns. They are very spendy (I paid $700 for a 5-shot .357, weighs 13oz loaded), being made of high tech alloys like scandium and titanium.

The Ruger Single Six is the all time top seller, there are zillions of these things out there, and they are common on the used market as well as being reasonably priced brand new, they're offered in stainless, and the included .22 magnum cylinder can be swapped without tools.

The only reason I didn't buy one is that the spent casings must be ejected individually, instead of all at once like most revolvers, that was just annoying enough to this plinker that I went with a Taurus 94.

Taurus model 94, 9-shot, stainless, 4" barrel, 27 oz., under $350. I thought this one was a nice balance of weight, length, and capacity and price. Fit and finish is nice, I've only shot maybe a 100 rounds through it so I can't really speak to it's accuracy, it's probably more accurate than I am. You may want to consider a Taurus, their reputation used to be bad, but they are making nicer stuff these days.

For the budget minded, H&R made a variety of 22s back in the day, many of them sell cheaply now on the used market, they had a reputaion as being heavy but sturdy and reliable. Some models used the traditional swing out cylinders, some broke open like a double barrelled shotgun, and there are higher capacity models, the 922 holds nine. I don't know about stainless options.

Whatever you buy, get it in stainless for traipsing through the woods in all kinds of weather, that's exactly the type of use where stainless pays off.

You really may want to consider a Ruger automatic, I have a MarkIII Hunter, it's my favorite gun, a pure pleasure to shoot, extremely accurate and reliable right out of the box, and not terribly expensive. Earlier used MarkIIs can be a real bargain.

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Originally Posted by volwest

But this Mark II-III keeps on popping up.

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It's no accident, their owners tend to crow about them, obviously including myself.

They really do shoot nicely, and put up with any of the cheapie ammo (in my experience), but like most or all autoloading .22s, they won't cycle the oddball stuff: subsonic, tracer, or snakeshot. That's why I also got the the Taurus.

The Hunter model is really nice, with it's fluted barrel it has the accuracy of the 7" bull barrel, but the weight and feel in the hand of the 5" standard barrel.

Warning, gun porn::)

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l1...unterMkIII.jpg

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Originally Posted by volwest

lol

I like the Mark III standard. (just on looks of course).

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This is a true experience I witnessed 1st hand & is a strong testimony to the quality of Ruger firearms. Back in the 1960's one of my brothers bought one of the Mark (insert roman numeral here) pistols. I would use it from time to time knocking off the occaisional racoon that my dog would tree, etc. Later my brother moved into an apartment that he would share with our cousin who was also an ex-marine recently returned from 'Nam and liked to get drunk...a lot.

One night when he was really plastered he told my brother he would show him how to tear down the Ruger pistol, clean it, and put it back together again. He got it apart okay, and cleaned it, but couldn't get the gun back together. My brother wrapped up all the parts in an old t-shirt, stuck the pistol back into the holster, and sort of forgot it over the years. About 30 years later my father-in-law bought the pistol without the parts (my brother had lost them all over the years) for $20. He then started ordering parts for it and began to piece the gun back together. Imagine his anguish when he realized that there were three components that had to be factory installed! So he reluctantly took the gun to a friend of his that had a federal firearms license to send it back to Ruger to have the parts re-installed. He didn't have much money so he was hoping & praying that it wouldn't be to expensive. When he got the phone call that his gun was back he very nervously asked how much he was going to have to pay. He was told about $1.79 for the postage as the gun was still under warranty! Consequently I love Ruger and own a Mark II and their 10/22!

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Originally Posted by volwest

Yeah...I own the 10/22 also, and i couldn't say a bad thing about them (both Ruger and the 10/22).
So, i will definitely check out the Mark.

thanks

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The new Mark has some cool new features as of late. Mine is the one that bears a strong resemblance to the Nazi Luger of WWII. (Ve haf vays of making you talk! Hopefully not like me.) The new one has the same handle the 1911 Colt .45 has, plus some other stuff you'll want to check out

Well, if I find myself in a survival situation it probably will not be out in the wilderness trying to hunt food. I plan on staying put and living off a combination of stored supplies and food produced at the homestead. (not on a homestead yet, but will be in less than 2 more years.) So for me defense is my main priority when considering firearms. And I realize that I would have to leave the homestead from time to time, so a full-sized assault rifle will not do for that.

I plan to purchase 3 AK-47's, Romanian, most likely. I would like to convert one of them into a pistol with a kit. All three would take the same magazines and I would have one that could be concealed under my coat should that need ever arise. The advantage of an AK pistol, to my way of thinking, is that it is small enough to conceal under a big coat or in a gym bag, holds 30 rounds, and will not jam on you.

That would leave 2 assault rifles for home defense and one for travel. If I need any more than that I guess I'm in trouble.

LOL. I've heard that "survival plan" often enough that cool AK's are as important as stored food, IMHO.

Most important to the prepared, again in my humble opinion, is silence. In other words keep your mouth shut about your supplies and preparations in your day-to-day life. If folks don't know you have stored food and equipment then they shouldn't show up on your doorstep, hopefully.

I think in the situation you're describing, concealing the AK would not be a priority.

Go Wolfpack!

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Originally Posted by volwest

I like the Mark III standard. (just on looks of course).

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I should have mentioned to avoid the AMT clone of the MarkIII, AMT got sued but good over that deal, some say it killed the company. The few dollars you would save off of a real Ruger aren't worth the inferior quality, lack of customer service, and difficulty of fitting parts made for Rugers.

I think the over under concept for a survival is a good concept. The Savage Sevens are quite heavy though. .22/20ga is a good combo. With out resupply it would be kinda hard to fight off the bad guys with an asualt rifle on a daily bases, chances they want your stuff and arent going away. To me a survival fire arm is about gathering game and litle for protection.

correct hop. I like the Henry U.S. survival rifle. .22 caliber. breaks down into the butt and floats. I've fired over 5,000 rounds through mine and the only complaint I have is the spring in the magazines tend to weaken so that the last round some times doesn't feed. It's a great little gun.

that happens to a lot of rifles eventually, cw, after 5,000 rounds I'm not surprised. It is a good little rifle, I had one a few years ago but gave it to a friend when I moved away. Should have kept it.

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Originally Posted by cw0203

correct hop. I like the Henry U.S. survival rifle. .22 caliber. breaks down into the butt and floats. I've fired over 5,000 rounds through mine and the only complaint I have is the spring in the magazines tend to weaken so that the last round some times doesn't feed. It's a great little gun.

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There's been some improvements in the gun since Henry took over from Armalite! They also include an exra magazine and you can also buy extras from the company.;)

this is my third set of magazines, trax. My second set were from Armalite and they eventually crapped out on me as well. And they cost 3 times as much as factory magazines. So I'm back with good ol ' Henry.