Guns and bunkers - which is best? And a bunker shootout video plus pics

KY - You're all over the place wth your response. I can imagine or recite many scenarios where the situation might dictate a different response. I was commenting on one feature in one photo that gave me a reason suspect this position wouldn't be easily defended with firearms. I am not an expert on the subject matter. It does seems rather intuitive that if you don't have overlapping fields of fire, and those fields you do have can be suppressed without putting the suppressor at risk, than this is a highly compromised position to defend. If what I suspect is true, than I could imagine a group of 5 or six organized assailants could neutralize that position without casualties. This is why I think concealment should be job one. Employ measures that lure intruders in another direction while dissuading continued movement in your general direction. I never said defense was useless, only that another form of defense might better suit this particular location.

By virtue of location alone.....seems high ground on a dead end road on a mountain, would be a good defensive position to start with, simply because it will take a lot of effort just to get there.

Why attack a unknown position unless you are insured a reasonable return on effort, with a relativity easy approach, and odds of success?

Looks like a good spot to hunker down to me.

My concerns would be more tornadoes, especially when visiting the kids in Louisiana.....In the double wide.

I believe that double wides should have a at least a partially buried block house in the center, built first, then the house put together around it, for this reason alone.

Basements are rare, as sea level is above ground level and stuff in the ground tend to get pushed up and out.

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Originally Posted by hunter63

My concerns would be more tornadoes, especially when visiting the kids in Louisiana.....In the double wide.

I believe that double wides should have a at least a partially buried block house in the center, built first, then the house put together around it, for this reason alone.

Basements are rare, as sea level is above ground level and stuff in the ground tend to get pushed up and out.

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Many of the tornado "safe rooms" are built at ground level and not underground. Around here they pour a foundation 4 feet deep and bolt and rebar everything in place.

My own next large construction effort will be a storm celler. I have a good hill I can dig into, block up and then pour a slab on top and use it as a parking area for the boats. I might even put a storage shed on top.

Down there 4 ft deep witll push right out of the ground.....Even many graves are in above ground vaults, or half buried.

My next planned construction is an "Ag building" in the side of the hill, with a concrete 'safe room/vault....storm cellar, place to put freezable goods with a secure door, Inside the building.

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Originally Posted by Cast-Iron

I can imagine or recite many scenarios where the situation might dictate a different response. I was commenting on one feature in one photo that gave me a reason suspect this position wouldn't be easily defended with firearms. I am not an expert on the subject matter. It does seems rather intuitive that if you don't have overlapping fields of fire, and those fields you do have can be suppressed without putting the suppressor at risk, than this is a highly compromised position to defend. If what I suspect is true, than I could imagine a group of 5 or six organized assailants could neutralize that position without casualties. This is why I think concealment should be job one. Employ measures that lure intruders in another direction while dissuading continued movement in your general direction. I never said defense was useless, only that another form of defense might better suit this particular location.

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I agree that concealment is very important. And if the bunker or even a cabin are located in a remote very wooded area then even better.

And too much for me to go into right now. Hopefully later I will explain with pics, how my bunker is quite good and much better than any video or pics can show. For one thing, the metal pipe / porthole is Not the only way to shoot out of the bunker. The main way and safest way but also could shoot out of the back trap door and as shown in the video I shot out of both sides just before running out of ammo and then I went inside.
And there are some overlapping fields of fire.

There is the large 20 x 12 foot hole above and to the right of the bunker and after I hopefully get the new partially underground cabin built then I will have another structure to shoot out of. The front door of the new cabin will look down on the front entrance of the bunker. But people would just have to go up there for themselves to see how excellent that area is. I chose that area since it has Many trees, 2 springs and also much wildlife. It is also much more remote than most places south of Canada.
And I might answer more fully but in a previous post someone had said that an attacker / sniper could shoot into the porthole. I very much doubt it since there is more to that porthole than simply a 5 foot metal sewer pipe.
The opening of the porthole that is outside the bunker, is a few inches larger than the opening inside the bunker, since the couple feet or so is a larger pipe. The length of the whole porthole / pipe is a little over 5 feet. But still easy to shoot out of.
And I doubt any snipers would be able to shoot inside and ricochet a bullet into the bunker. There are Many trees all around the bunker and on my 3 and 1/2 acres of 9,500 foot high mtn land. And it is surrounded by the million plus acre Medicine Bow national forest. Two sides of my land border on that national forest.

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Originally Posted by hunter63

By virtue of location alone.....seems high ground on a dead end road on a mountain, would be a good defensive position to start with, simply because it will take a lot of effort just to get there.

Why attack a unknown position unless you are insured a reasonable return on effort, with a relativity easy approach, and odds of success?

Looks like a good spot to hunker down to me.

My concerns would be more tornadoes....

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I definitely agree and my "bunker" is mainly a very good storage area and also a storm shelter since I usually live in it most of October even sometimes into Nov. and I do have 2 woodstoves inside the underground shelter / bunker.

I also don't understand why anyone concerned with survival does not have some kind of protective shelter - above or under ground. Much survival literature / books I have read since 1982 have said that underground shelters are the best protection.

Here are The least expensive plans to build a good protective underground shelter and what I used when I built the main room of my bunker. > http://www.oism.org/nwss/s73p933.htm

I could go on and on but the following pic shows the high ground and that pic was taken just above, almost on top of the bunker / underground shelter >

http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/a...llsmymtnre.jpg


And a nearby fishing lake which helps show some of the beauty in my mountain area >


http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/a...ephoto2006.jpg

Gorgeous lake! That looks sort of like a place not too far from where I live. I can certainly understand why some intrepid squatter built his ramshackle cabin on its shore. Never met him, but I always knock on the door to see if he's in. Like I said, he never is, but I've never seen any mold on the food in his cabin, so he must come up relatively frequently.

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Originally Posted by GreatUsername

Gorgeous lake! That looks sort of like a place not too far from where I live. I can certainly understand why some intrepid squatter built his ramshackle cabin on its shore. Never met him, but I always knock on the door to see if he's in. Like I said, he never is, but I've never seen any mold on the food in his cabin, so he must come up relatively frequently.

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You mean to say, that someone actually had the audacity, to go into the wilderness, squat and build a cabin?.........

Bunker or no that is some beautiful country. We are going to be finalizing some remodeling this fall and one of the ideas we are tinkering with is an in ground storm shelter. We've lived here 23 years and tornadoes have touched all around us. You gotta wonder if the odds are getting slim.

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Originally Posted by hunter63

You mean to say, that someone actually had the audacity, to go into the wilderness, squat and build a cabin?.........

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Hahaha, in WA the parks service gets kind of uppity about squatters. I think the only reason that this one hasn't been found out yet is lack of accessibility. The trail that people in the know take to get there is harder to find via the fire-roads, and isn't official or clearly marked. The parks service people still recommend the official trail that goes in via a highly accessible trail to a lower lake, then a VERY steep ascent (mid-level scrambling to "are you sure we don't need harnesses for this part?" uphill) over the mountain ridge into the next valley. I get the feeling that Rangers don't check up there too often. To be perfectly honest, even though there are major fines and accusations of poaching to contend with if you get caught, I would have been tempted to set up a cabin there, had this guy not already done so.

Let me show you why: http://images.summitpost.org/medium/429967.jpg http://www.wta.org/go-hiking/trip-re...4/photo1_large
(for scale, the lake is roughly 300 yards across)
And the cabin itself, though this is an older photo and the trees have since grown up around it: http://www.skycabins.com/wp-content/...Eagle-Lake.jpg

The porch faces out on the lake, and is about thirty feet from shore. No water damage on the structure last time I was up there, so I don't think the water ever gets high enough to endanger the cabin. Truly lovely.

I spoke too soon, apparently it's no longer a squatter's cabin, as the owner passed away about a decade ago and the Parks Service decided to preserve it due to historical value, as it supposedly has been there since the '40s

That said, someone (or several people) were still using it, though whether communally or personally I can't say. This is Eagle Lake off of Highway 2, btw. (A fair way off)

Looks like a fantastic spot....and a lot of peoples dream.....seems only right to become kinda a "Museum of the Past"....when you could do stuff like this, with out a satellite taking pic's and ratting ya out....

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Originally Posted by hunter63

Looks like a fantastic spot....and a lot of peoples dream.....seems only right to become kinda a "Museum of the Past"....when you could do stuff like this, with out a satellite taking pic's and ratting ya out....

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I think my mtn place / BOL / survival retreat someday soon to become my permanent home, is the best survival area that I have seen. There is an abundance of wood, water and wildlife.
I am sure there are more good areas that the government owns but that does not do much good to those who want to build on the land.

I still have to respond to some, hopefully all of the previous posts that I have not had time to respond to.
But to any who might think my mtn place might be overrun by raiders the following link shows that there are only 5 people per square mile in Wyoming. Even many fewer in the remote areas / mountains such as where my mtn land is located.

My bunker is mainly for good secure storage and a good storm / blizzard shelter. But IF there Might be one, two or more raiders then the video in the first post of this thread shows what Might happen. Hope most reading this thread can understand that.

Wyoming does have fewer people ( population ) even than Alaska or any other state. This site says Wyoming has only 5 people per square mile! > http://www.chacha.com/question/what-...er-square-mile

And I also think the forests in Wyoming and some other Rocky Mtn states are as good as anywhere on this planet Earth and as good as Canada's only not nearly as cold as Canada! But don't tell anyone... :thumb:

Wyoming may have the lowest population in the US, but Idaho has the most square miles of Wilderness area, in the lower 48. It is a slap in the face to all folks that play by the rules, to have someone squat on public land. Public land belongs to all American citizens, not just an annointed few.

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Originally Posted by Power Giant

Wyoming may have the lowest population in the US, but Idaho has the most square miles of Wilderness area, in the lower 48. It is a slap in the face to all folks that play by the rules, to have someone squat on public land. Public land belongs to all American citizens, not just an annointed few.

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Not sure if this was directed at MtnmanMike or not, but for anybody that hasn't been following.....he owns the land that his bunker is on. http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...rvival-Retreat

:blushing:My bad, I posted in the wrong dang thread. Dumb me.

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Originally Posted by crashdive123

Not sure if this was directed at MtnmanMike or not, but for anybody that hasn't been following.....he owns the land that his bunker is on. http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...rvival-Retreat

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Yes sir. I bought that 3 and 1/2 acres in 1987 for $8,000 and it is supposed to be worth around $50,000 today not including the sheds or bunker which don't exist as far as the gov't is concerned. At least they keep saying that my land is vacant land on the property taxes. Good to have well camoflaged buildings and being covered with snow from mid October to June also helps keep my privacy.

And I really like that link that shows many pics of what I have done and still do up there. I Must finish one more building = a partially underground cabin with a greenhouse which won't be too easy to camoflage but I still must try.

And I should keep trying to respond to some past posts in this bunker shootout thread.

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Originally Posted by GreatUsername

ID guess of the first gun: civilian model FN P-90 ?

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So many posts to respond to, so little time.

But that is a good guess. The gun I was shooting out of the porthole was I believe a PS-90. I did not own that $1,500 gun but I borrowed it from a neighbor who is my closest neighbor at about 1/3 of a mile to the north. And that neighbor - he and his wife have many guns. I gave him $25 to cover the cost of the ammo in the 50 round magazine.

It was a fun gun to shoot but it did jam once. They said they sold it just before Christmas and likely bought another one or two or ten, various other guns. They do live about 30 miles north of Denver so they might need to keep their guns at their Wyoming cabin someday soon with the coming strong nanny state Colorado is rapidly becoming. Hopefully Wyoming will never get as anti-gun etc. as so many other states.

Shooting with that gun with its 50 round magazine, made it sound like I was shooting the sides of the pipe - porthole but none of the ammo hit the sides. It was just the acoustics that made the ringing / pinging sound.

Notice that I was wearing hearing protection since it would have been terribly loud shooting without it in that confined bunker. WR also shot a rifle and shotgun. The 12 gauge Benelli shotgun that he had confiscated / stolen in England.
This pic is the closest I can find on the net to what that $1,500 gun, looks like >

http://cdn.atlantictactical.com/imag...dard-black.jpg

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